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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 6, 2004 19:10:23 GMT -5
I'm baaaaaacccckkkk! ;D This is my reworked data on the Atlanteans, edited and improved and - ****, I started from scratch - to incorporate the input everyone gave (including Destacado's BRILLIANT hibernation theory, that really saved their collective rubbery skins . More sections will be added as I complete them, similar to CELS's Index Orkicus. This can be "Index Atlanteanus", or just THE ATLANTEANS 1. History - done2. Physiology - done3. Culture/Government 4. Military 5. Atlanteans and the Warp 6. Something Else 7. etc..
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 6, 2004 19:20:21 GMT -5
The Atlanteans have existed as a race for millions of years, with recorded history stretching back to the War in Heaven between the Old Ones and the C’tan. During this period, they were still quite primitive, their lives focused purely around simple things like catching fish to eat, the worship of their equally primitive gods who were responsible for withholding or granting the fish, and other simple things. The Old Ones changed all this, when they visited the planet for a time shortly before the end of the War. The Atlanteans were awestruck by these mystical, all-powerful beings, and saw the Old One’s almost lost vision of a galaxy free of voracious, all-consuming factors such as the C’tan. When the Old Ones left, the proto-Atlanteans vowed to ensure that someday that vision would become a reality. The focus of their culture changed, and they became the society that they are today.
It took them a great deal of time to accomplish this. Their first space probe was launched roughly around the Terran calendar period of the 10th millennium B.C. Their exploration and colonization soon followed, until they were spread out over a wide area. They found many younger races, and catalogued them in order of study value. High on this list was humanity. They could see humanity’s potential, and knew what they might someday become. As such, they made a continual study of human culture for thousands of years, amassing such a complete record of technological development that that any Tech-priest who was aware of it would drool in envy (or leak hydraulic fluid, depending on your perspective). Obviously, they are unaware of the value of such data and see it merely as part of their records of a most intriguing alien species.
As they expanded their spread of planets and watchposts, they began to learn more about the galaxy. They saw the Eldar and the Orks, and recognized the handiwork of the Old Ones. Their colonies at this point were clumped around their homeworld, and they took advantage of the end of the Dark Age of Technology and the Age of Strife to expand their eyes and ears. They were aware of the machinations of Chaos, but were unconcerned since they were unaffected by the Warp-beings and their plots. But this was to change, as the Fall of the Eldar took place. The psychic shockwave that birthed the Chaos god Slannesh and drove away the warp storms surrounding Terra also reached as far as the Atlantean homeworld. Hundreds of Wave-seers were struck dead by the blast, for it was strong enough to overwhelm even their group consciousness. The entire Atlantean population was laid low by the disaster, and only when they recovered did they realize the implications of such an event. The oldest surviving race in the galaxy had been crippled, and another embodiment of evil was loose to wreak havoc. They knew that if allowed to run unchecked, this could tip the scales of balance in favor of Chaos and Disorder. As such, the Atlanteans began the process of transforming their society from a group of peaceful, non-interventionist watchers to a militant warrior race. Their efforts were impeded by the Emperor’s Great Crusade, as they were forced to lie low to prevent discovery, with many outposts cut off for years. The rebellion of Horus took them by surprise. As much of their military force as needed to protect their central colonies was mobilized, and they did their own small part in the Heresy by ruthlessly exterminating any Chaos force that ventured into areas they controlled. When Horus was defeated and the traitor forces fled to the Eye of Terror, the Atlanteans withdrew their forces and allow the Imperium to rebuild itself. But worse was to come of the Fall, and their armies would be ordered out all too soon.
They were the first race to realize the full impact when strange alien organisms began to appear on the edges of the galactic plain. The Imperium was the first to find them, naming them the Genestealers of Ygmarl, for they were though to be indigenous to that planet’s moon. But the learned Atlanteans knew there must be more to the story, and after capturing one and performing experiments, they realized the true horror of what was being unleashed upon them. While the Imperium saw only a few isolated incidents, the widespread Atlantean network gave them the whole picture. The aliens were not some minor race, but the vanguard of a massive invasion fleet that spelled doom for the galaxy. The Atlanteans vowed to do what they could to slow the advance of the hive fleets, but their power was insufficient to be more than a mere irritation and it was up to the human Imperium and the Space Marines to realize the threat and stop it before it was too late. Thankfully, the human empire proved up to the task and threw back Hive Fleet Behemoth and Kraken in succession, while remaining no more the wiser about the Atlanteans.
When the immediate danger from the Tyranids faded, the Atlanteans began to reseed their colonies and reestablish their watchpost network.
During each of the Black Crusades, they did their part in chipping away at what Chaos forces they could find, though never in any major amount (for interfering in a great manner would have upset balance, the Crusades were the periodic struggle between good and evil).
The entire race was taken aback by the emergence of the Necron raiders. They did not know specifics about this new threat, but needed no specifics to recognize the handiwork of the C’tan. Their horror can only be imagined at discovering that a handful of C’tan still stalked the galaxy. A battle fleet was dispatched to eradicate the tomb where the Nightbringer lay in stasis, but the unwitting intervention of the Imperium accidentally released the being. The Atlanteans could only watch helplessly from hundreds of lightyears away as the monster fled, and they vowed that someday it would be destroyed. Their only saving grace was that they had been mere primitives when the star-gods last walked, and the C’tan were unaware of the Atlanteans’ connection to the Old Ones.
Nitpick please, especially places where it directly contradicts any GW fluff I was unaware of (I took some liberties in embellishing areas theu left vague).
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Post by CELS on May 7, 2004 3:55:17 GMT -5
Nitpicking? Alright. 1) Don't use expression such as "recognize the handiwork of" and "had been laid low" more than once. They're special expressions 2) Was Kage alright with this being an ancient race? Anyway, I find it ODD that they're so old, they don't get their first space probe untill M01, and then their technology level simply explodes!!! 3) I think you've gone and made these Atlanteans too powerful and too clever. They predicted everything and they ass-whooped anyone they tried to. Ruthlessy exterminating any chaos force that ventured into areas they controlled? Hitting a large chunk of Hive Fleet Behemoth so hard that it simply turned back?? "Wow, those guys were tough. Let's travel millions of light years and return to the galaxy which we have already sucked dry of organic life" Making the Adeptus Mechanicus' collection of STC templates like a drop in the ocean? Granted, you did show that they were hiding from time to time, but they still pretty much accomplished anything they set out to do. Not lost wars, no set-backs... 4) Weren't the Genestealers thought to be indigenous to a moon? Not a planet? 5) Since the history-section is likely to be the first part of an Atlantean article, you should explain some of the terms used. Why were the Atlanteans unconcerned with Chaos? What are warp-seers? What telescopes? Watchpost networks? 6) Slaanesh. Not Slannesh
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 7, 2004 5:38:09 GMT -5
Nitpicking? Alright. 1) Don't use expression such as "recognize the handiwork of" and "had been laid low" more than once. They're special expressions Oopsies.[ I missed that in editing. 2) Was Kage alright with this being an ancient race? Anyway, I find it ODD that they're so old, they don't get their first space probe untill M01, and then their technology level simply explodes!!! I dunno, Kage will have to comment himself on the edited version here. And scaled dates are in no way something I profess to be good at... some thing more realistic? I really do need to change this, though, it's on the road back to "Fishy Tau-dom". 3 ) I think you've gone and made these Atlanteans too powerful and too clever. They predicted everything and they ass-whooped anyone they tried to. They didn't predict everything, if fact a lot of it took them by surprise. They did not predict the Hive Fleets, but they did recognize them for what they were as soon as they showed up. The ELDAR might have predicted them, though. And on the fighting, they did make sure to take on only what they knew that they could handle, like very small enemy fleets. Anything larger they simply hid from. Ruthlessy exterminating any chaos force that ventured into areas they controlled? Hitting a large chunk of Hive Fleet Behemoth so hard that it simply turned back?? "Wow, those guys were tough. Let's travel millions of light years and return to the galaxy which we have already sucked dry of organic life" Chaos - Well, this may have sounded high-handed, but I didn't intend it that way. Most of their colonies, the major ones anyways, and on the edge or outside of populated Imperial space, so anything that wandered in would probably have gotten lost, or just an expeditionary force. Tyranids - Okay, I'm getting a little ambitious here. It wasn't intended to be a large fleet, but I do agree that it's a little too must. In fact, I think I'm erasing all mention of Tyranids except for a few sentences - "When the encroaching Tyranid Swarms began their assault on the galaxy, the Atlanteans immediately recognized them for what they were: The greatest threat the known universe had ever seen - and prepared to fight them." -Better? Making the Adeptus Mechanicus' collection of STC templates like a drop in the ocean? Well, they have been studying us since B.C. times. (I need to find a new date for the above paragraph). I envisioned them as recording nearly everything they saw, important or not, so they would end up with records of everything from ancient Egyptian beer-making techniques to how you construct an Iron Man. Granted, you did show that they were hiding from time to time, but they still pretty much accomplished anything they set out to do. Not lost wars, no set-backs... Oh, I just haven't written this in yet. I do have one thing in mind so far, their first combat action involving Demons of Chaos. Their guns manipulate warp energy to an extent, and you're familiar with the sub-consciousness idea that shields them from demonic possession, so the Atlanteans in question thought they were invincible to demons. They all got slaughtered, and the rest learned their lesson. 4) Weren't the Genestealers thought to be indigenous to a moon? Not a planet? I dunno, you'll have to ask someone more knowlegable about GW fluff than I. I jsut know it was called Ygnarr, or something (no nitpicking on spelling that!) 5) Since the history-section is likely to be the first part of an Atlantean article, you should explain some of the terms used. Why were the Atlanteans unconcerned with Chaos? What are warp-seers? What telescopes? Watchpost networks? Don't worry, I'll include that in the Culture area. But here: Wave-seers (not warp-seers) are their psykers. They funnel the energy of the Atlantean greater mind the same way Ork Wierdboyz can funnel Waaaaugh energy, though to a much greater extent of control. Chaos: See what I have in mind above for their first battle against Demons. They were unconcerned with Chaos because they believed they could not be harmed(they were mistaken). 6) Slaanesh. Not Slannesh Grrrrrrrrrrr....... >:(All, right, I asked for it.
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Post by CELS on May 7, 2004 5:59:02 GMT -5
I dunno, Kage will have to comment himself on the edited version here. And scaled dates are in no way something I profess to be good at... some thing more realistic? I really do need to change this, though, it's on the road back to "Fishy Tau-dom". I'm glad you see the similarity Chaos - Well, this may have sounded high-handed, but I didn't intend it that way. Most of their colonies, the major ones anyways, and on the edge or outside of populated Imperial space, so anything that wandered in would probably have gotten lost, or just an expeditionary force. Yeah, that's better. It did indeed sound a bit high-handed; as if entire fleets would just disappear as soon as they entered Atlantean space. Perhaps you should remedy this..? Tyranids - Okay, I'm getting a little ambitious here. It wasn't intended to be a large fleet, but I do agree that it's a little too must. In fact, I think I'm erasing all mention of Tyranids except for a few sentences - "When the encroaching Tyranid Swarms began their assault on the galaxy, the Atlanteans immediately recognized them for what they were: The greatest threat the known universe had ever seen - and prepared to fight them." -Better? Yeah, better. Perhaps include why exactly they recognized them as such a threat? While the Imperium was only able to see a few Tyranids dots on the map, the Atlanteans saw the whole swarm approaching the galaxy! Well, they have been studying us since B.C. times. (I need to find a new date for the above paragraph). I envisioned them as recording nearly everything they saw, important or not, so they would end up with records of everything from ancient Egyptian beer-making techniques to how you construct an Iron Man. But now the telescopes (btw, I thought we agreed on calling them something other than telescopes, since they're based on warp technology rather than simple mechanics) sound so powerful that you can watch people in the shower on the far side of the galaxy. I don't think it makes sense to describe them like that. Rather, the visions would show visions of distant locations, so the Atlanteans would know that humans had created Space Marines, for example, but they wouldn't be able to see how exactly. Oh, I just haven't written this in yet. I do have one thing in mind so far, their first combat action involving Demons of Chaos. Their guns manipulate warp energy to an extent, and you're familiar with the sub-consciousness idea that shields them from demonic possession, so the Atlanteans in question thought they were invincible to demons. They all got slaughtered, and the rest learned their lesson. Sounds good. In 40k, everybody learns the hard way I dunno, you'll have to ask someone more knowlegable about GW fluff than I. I jsut know it was called Ygnarr, or something (no nitpicking on spelling that!) As it turns out, I was right. The planet was called Ymgarl, and the Genestealers were found on that planet's moons. Don't worry, I'll include that in the Culture area. I'm sure you will, but my point is; You'll make the article better reading if you give a short explanation right way, so that people won't have to read the entire history and physiology to answer their questions about what the hell wave-seers are. In my opinion anyway.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 7, 2004 6:26:31 GMT -5
Will do. Got to go to school now (erg) but will try to remedy the situation when I get home.
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Post by Destecado on May 7, 2004 12:41:03 GMT -5
One thing in writing the history of the Atlantean, remember that the level of technology held by humanity under the Imperium of Man, is not the apex, but a slow decline. I beleive that the Atlaneans would have had a much more difficult time hiding themselves from humanity at the hight of their power (Dark age of Technology).
There is also the problem of the race being passed over by the C'tan during the War in Heaven period. The C'tan did not really care if a race served the Old Ones or not....any race was up for grabs as a snack. They even ate the life force of their own troops (the necrontyr). They may have been lucky that the C'tan only made it around to their neck of the woods just before the emergence of the Enslavers.
It is also written that some of the Old Ones went into hiding during the war. Perhaps one hid on their home world, which also hid them from its enemies. It has also struck me as odd that everyone considers the Old Ones to have been a race that only had the younger races best interests at heart.
I see them as more opportunistic. true they helped younger races and even pulled some along in their evolutionary developement, but most of this was done for the benefit of the Old Ones. Altruism does not exist. Everybody gets something out of the deal. The Old Ones were acting out of enlightened self interest.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 7, 2004 15:35:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I might add something that describes how they took advantage of the collapse of the greater Imperium to expand their "eyes and ears".
Hmmmm...All right, let's put it up to luck that the C'tan never got around to them. My mention of the C'tan not being aware of them was a relic from the time when the Old Ones had created them directly.
Sorry, I don't like this at all. Too much of a connection to the OO is what almost got the Atlanteans wiped from the ASP. I don't want to antagonize the Powers That Be.
Well, no one really knows much of the Old Ones in general. What I've written is going to be the Atlantean take on it. They did worship the OO as gods for a period, after all.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 8, 2004 9:39:59 GMT -5
Alrighty then, final changes. All changes will be made to the above document, highlighted to show up. I edited the Tyranid section, trimmed it down to a very small portion. The STC template reference is changed to a less exact but more descriptive mention, "that any Tech-Priest who knew of it would drool in envy (or leak hydraulic fluid, depending on your perspective)." Their first space probe is now launched in the 10th millenium B.C., which gives them plenty of time to expand. If there's no other major problems, I'll post up the Physiology, and Destacado will have a field day. (no offense meant, BTW).
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Post by Kage2020 on May 8, 2004 9:58:59 GMT -5
Based upon the descriptoin thus far, and the comments levvied againt the Atlanteans by others, I still think that there is little to be gained of having them hanging around since the War in Heaven and before. I also cannot help but find CELS' comments particularly poignant: the Atlanteans do everything that they want, are affected by little, etc. Since nothing happens for sixty million years, why not just ignore the WiH 'fluff' and create a race that has a pre-australopithecine development but which isn't so excessively staged in the pasted. Regardless of the hibernation process... Kage
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 8, 2004 10:30:40 GMT -5
I have been uncertain about the WiH fluff, and am leaning towards dumping it altogether life you said. But then, that leaves me without a reason for them to be aspiring towards a grand destiny of balance in the galaxy. Any suggestions?
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Post by Destecado on May 8, 2004 10:55:52 GMT -5
Four words, "For the Greater Good"....now I'm not saying you use this, but it is an example of a concept held by the tau that was not really formed by the any influence of the Old Ones, unless there is an ethereal conspiracy theory that I am unaware of.
It is not unusual for a race to seek out or try to find some greater meaning to their existance. Look at humanity. We have such projects as SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) as well as a multitude of religions seeking a higher being or connection to a higher power.
Unless you have changed the concept of the race, I think I remember their being several forms of the atlanteans. Instead of having several forms of one race, how about several races cooporating together. This wouldn't be the tau and kroot relationship, but more a joining of equals. Each might have specialties or strengths that the other races lack. The idea of an organization of several cooporating species is prevalent in many different SF stories, but has rarely been addressed in 40k.
You could possibly situate their home worlds in one of the "wirlderness" sections of the galaxy that the imperium really has no control over. They could be in the Anargo Sector collecting data or studying humanity.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 8, 2004 11:06:18 GMT -5
Four words, "For the Greater Good"....now I'm not saying you use this, but it is an example of a concept held by the tau that was not really formed by the any influence of the Old Ones, unless there is an ethereal conspiracy theory that I am unaware of. Well, I'd like to avoid any connection to the Tau if possible, since that was what they appeared as in the beginning. I think I might have to go with this, since Kage is rather resistant to any sort of OO connection. Woh, now. The several forms idea has been deleted, replaced by a general "Atlantean". The different types are merely the military troops, Atlanteans will join the military and be sorted into various units depending on their abilities and/or preference. This is exactly what I had in mind for their planet, and that is exactly what they are doing in the Anargo Sector - collecting information, like they are on their numerous other outposts.
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Post by Destecado on May 8, 2004 12:18:21 GMT -5
Well, I'd like to avoid any connection to the Tau if possible, since that was what they appeared as in the beginning. I wasn't comparing them to the Tau. I was merely trying to show that there are cultures that have formulated grand scemes without the interference or prompting of the Old Ones.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 8, 2004 14:16:32 GMT -5
Okay, I see what you're saying now. I just went slightly ape at the sight of the words "Greater Good" in connection with the Atlanteans.
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