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Post by malika on Jun 26, 2004 0:02:15 GMT -5
Maybe an idea of the whole "bi pedal problem". Dont give them legs at all, give them like a lowerbody similar to a mermaid or a dolphin's back. They are aquatic creatures, swimming would be more important than walking.
They have technology right? perhaps they can create some sort of suit with legs on it, give it like 4, 6 or 8 legs (similar to a crab or lobster). These would be used on land.
I had some sketches of fish creatures from some time ago, when I have my scanner I could show them, maybe you will like them.
I had this idea that their armour would be made out of shells from sea creatures, I liked that idea.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 26, 2004 0:59:42 GMT -5
First, thanks for actually coming here. I thought my Atlanteans were dead in the water. ;D
I guess that could be used if there were no alternatives, but I don't like it. It really disrupts the imagery of the race as a whole.
P.S. It also would create new problems for them during the drying up of the seas period, where they would literally be fish out of water, just flopping around.
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Post by malika on Jun 26, 2004 1:02:10 GMT -5
And that's when the suits come in handy?
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 26, 2004 7:14:02 GMT -5
errrmm, yeah..... I guess. It's really just a matter of personal taste, I don't like the merman imagery. Sorry.
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Post by malika on Jun 27, 2004 8:20:22 GMT -5
maybe something else, give them fins in their feet perhaps?
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Post by CELS on Jun 27, 2004 9:24:36 GMT -5
Maybe... maybe... Keep in mind what's been said before, people. Read the previous posts. You'll notice that Glyphstone definitely wants them to have legs (not flippers, not merman tails, but legs) and that this is a problem when you try to explain the evolution of this race without involving the Old Ones and their genetic engineering. Fins in their feet... If you mean webbed toes like ducks, that doesn't really solve anything. Extra fins on the side of their legs or something doesn't really solve anything either. The problem is, Glyphstone wants them to have legs, with knees and feet. Humanoid legs. And a race that has spent millions of years under water doesn't need knees and feet, and so wouldn't develop them. That's why you don't see two-legged fish swimming around. Not even ones with fins on their feet. Right now, it seems to me that the ball is in Glyphstone's court. It's up to Glyphstone to figure out where he wants to draw the line between imagery and realism. Does he go all the way and give them flippers or fish-tails, or does he compromise and make them amphibians? Or can he think of something else? I think everyone else on this forum have contributed pretty much what they can. But you never know... maybe Destecado will re-appear some day with a brand new theory from the real world ;D Oh, and I may have said this before, but... do mind the one-liners
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 27, 2004 10:59:26 GMT -5
Thanks CELS. Maybe I forgot to mention it. I am in no way resistant to making them amphibians (well not anymore). If it'll solve the problem of their evolution, I'll bite. Ball in your court, or did I just foul?
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Post by CELS on Jun 27, 2004 13:10:21 GMT -5
Well, then I assume that you'll want to work more on the Atlanteans and maybe even try to finish a cohesive article of sorts, and elaborate on the biology-bit beyond "'they are amphibians". The ball is definitely in your court. They are your creation and your contribution, after all, and thus yours to finish We're just here to help and guide you as you go along.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 28, 2004 0:27:58 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll definitely be doing that on the next trip around. In the meantime, could anyone read through the notes on their culture? Or is it too boring?
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 30, 2004 0:02:27 GMT -5
All right, since this is stagnating, I'm going to move on to technology and weapons/warfare styles. *(here, Destacado....*)
ALSO:
Just some general ideas/brainstorming on their life cycle. They're definitely amphibians, but I don't want a "tadpole" stage. Would it be feasible for them to come out of the egg fully formed, but smaller? Kind of like chickens?
On that same note, I considered making the eggs maturing cycle take a great deal of time, the number I picked was 31 years. Since they live close to 300, this sin't too bad. Also, it makes a good relationship with the planetary water-draining cycle (which occurs every 87 years) since both are prime numbers, and thus the birth/hatching of a generation at the same time the race goes into hibernation (almost certain death, they'd be quite weak after hatching) would only occur once every 2,697 years.
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on Jun 30, 2004 15:41:30 GMT -5
Would it be feasible for them to come out of the egg fully formed, but smaller? Kind of like chickens? If this link is to be believed, it's possible and has been documented...it's just very unusual. Although they bury their eggs in the ground, so that might be a problem.... Mind you though that this is in reference to terrestrial ecology, so you can probably take liberties with it in terms of aliens. ;D
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 1, 2004 0:07:03 GMT -5
DesertGhostExarch, I LIKE that. Thanks, it's exactly what I'm looking for.
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Post by Destecado on Jul 1, 2004 5:53:16 GMT -5
Sorry for not being around the past week or so, work is kind of hectic at the moment, but I'll try to help out in the time I have available. The article that DesertGhostExarch posted is indeed intersting, but it also states the specific conditions that have lead to the phenomenon.
Unlike most amphibians the variety of chirping from mentioned in the article does not lay its eggs in bodies of water. It in fact does not generally have acces to large bodies of water, but instead lays its eggs in moist soil. The article makes reference to similar traits among frogs in tropical enviroments. It happens among tree frogs in the Amazon and other parts of South America.
In the Case of Jungle frogs, the average humidity is sufficient to make up for lack of access to large water sources. In the case of the chirping frogs in the article the take advantage of well watered potted plants and gardens.
With the oceans you have described on the home planet of the Atlanteans, such a developement would probably not be likely to occur. The tadpole stage in areas with sufficient bodies of water, provides increased mobility to evade predators. Perhaps you could have the Atlantean race be from an isolated population that came from an area that dried out nad never had the oceans return.
It could be that their genetic ancestors still swim in the oceans, but never made the evolutionary leap and so never developed into higher life forms. Any thoughts?
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Post by CELS on Jul 1, 2004 6:18:18 GMT -5
Oooh, that sounds like a great idea! They would then return to the ocean later, as legged amphibians with webbed toes Or would they? If they were to return to the ocean, they would be at a severe disadvantage against ocean predators, like local sharks and killer whales. Unless they overcame this threat with tools and weapons..
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 1, 2004 7:07:23 GMT -5
Interesting...could this perhaps be integrated with the "global tidal dry-up?" - wait, never mind. Actually, that seems like a feasible idea. The sharks/killer whales would not be likely to be a problem because of the periodic draining of the oceans (not sure exactly how that'll work out yet), and they'd suffocate. Who knows, this could become something big. Many thousands of years earier in their evolution, something (perhaps one of the big tidal surges/drains) killed off a great portion of the planet's life, while the rest were forced to adapt to far less water, including the proto-Atlanteans. This could be where they gain the ability to hibernate under the mud/silt/ground to wait out the dry time, and also when their eggs changed into producing fully formed young. Something else, working towards the "hatching fully formed" idea. From what I know, the frog hatches as a tadpole and swims around merrily until it grows legs/ams. The problem with following this route for the Atlanteans is the need to hibernate periodically. Since it currently takes them 31 years of development in the egg to hatch, that might seem like enough to get through the radpole stage. If they hatched only a short time before a tidal effect, a tremendous group would die since they have no legs/arms to burrow with. (Yes, I know there are creatures that burrow w/o legs+arms, the Goby shrimp comes to mind, but it's the only explanation I can give).
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