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Post by Destecado on Jul 1, 2004 8:48:39 GMT -5
Well we're skipping ahead through millions of years of evolution here. remember that the size of a chirping frog is miniscule compared to that of a human. If we are talking about human sized amphibians, the evolution to that form would be more gradual than just increasing size over a couple of genrations. We also need to take into account the developement of their brains as well.
Maybe part of what lead to the developement of legs in the original species was the need to cross the mud flats to the few remaining sources of water. Perhaps the seas are very shallow and as they begin to recede, the form into several channels or streams that are the last to dry up. The streams reaming damp the longest so while the rest of the mud flats dry into hard baked earth, these areas maintain a realtive amount of moisture.
The need to cross to these streams might cause the Atlanteans to first develope strong fins or the ability to flap about like a mud skipper. It may then develope into protolegs and from there into full legs that allow them to walk to areas of moisture. The streams (last places to dry up) would be highly contested amongst the protoAtlanteans. Those that made it to these areas had a higher chance of survival and so could pass on their trates to their offspring.
There could be land animals that used the drying of the shallow seas as a chance to migrate between land masses or to catch a free meal on the protoAtlanteans stranded out on the mud flats. Slowly over time the skills might develope to make them able to better defend themselves on land or more likely evade land creatures. This might be a possible scenario for their developement. Any thoughts?
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 1, 2004 10:12:24 GMT -5
Only that you are Einstein incarnate. CELS' edit; Or, in this case, Darwin My edit: Him too. In all seriousness, I have no idea where I (and the Atlanteans) would be without you. It's little details like these that I tend to neglect. Land animals are something new to think about... I will need to expand on the ecology of the world besides its primary residents.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 2, 2004 4:46:08 GMT -5
Okay, something else to think about. Perhaps the Atlanteans evolved from a species of fish, like the mud skipper .These fish were different than other life on the worls because of a quasi-psychic link that bonded members of each school. The link made it easier for the fish to escape predators, and during the long flip-flopping migrations during the dry periods to water, the fish could borrow strength from each other through the link to keep going. When they became self-aware and developed sentience, the "link" evolved with them and became the group subconscious that they have today.
That explains the psychic subconscious, at least.
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Post by Destecado on Jul 2, 2004 5:48:52 GMT -5
Okay, something else to think about. Perhaps the Atlanteans evolved from a species of fish, like the mud skipper .These fish were different than other life on the worls because of a quasi-psychic link that bonded members of each school. The link made it easier for the fish to escape predators, and during the long flip-flopping migrations during the dry periods to water, the fish could borrow strength from each other through the link to keep going. When they became self-aware and developed sentience, the "link" evolved with them and became the group subconscious that they have today. That explains the psychic subconscious, at least. Actually, I have to disagree with this. I don't think that this subconscious link should have developed when they were semisentient creatures. The foundation of it may have been there, but it should not have fully developed until much later. You may also want to consider how we are defining this psychic link. I don't think that it should be like that of the eldar, but perhaps reflect their evolution and enviroment. I was considering perhaps some chemical given off by their skin that aids in the link. Thee are many toads and frogs that excrete substances on their skin. Some are to make them taste bad to predators or as a means of retaining moisture on their skin. Others have hallucinagenic properties. I'm not sure how you were going to handle the issue of breathing. Have the Atlanteans developed lungs or do the absorb disolved oxygen from the water directly through their skin 9or a combination of the two). Which ever it turns out to be, the Atlanteans still need to maintain the moisture of their skin. Perhaps they excrete some substance that coats the skin and helps it to retain moisture. This substance may also have chemical receptors that link to the minds of the Atlanteans. If two Atlanteans come into physical contact, they can experience empathically the emotions and thoughts of each other. In non-Atlanteans, the substance might produce a hallucinagenic like episode. Ceremonies where the Atlanteans link together to commune as a group consciousness therefore require direct physicall contact. There might be strictures or taboos in their society about direct physical contact outside these ceremonies or outside ones chreche (or whatever the familly or social unit is called).
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 2, 2004 6:04:21 GMT -5
Well, I don't know. Remember that the eventual goal is the sort of "group consciousness" that both supplies their psykers with energy and shields them from possession.
Perhaps the semi-sentient version of the subconscious could be toned down a bit. Instead of them "knowing" what others know and being able to energize each other, they could, say, instinctively sense when another member of the school was in pain. That would warn the other members of the school to stay away, and avoid the same fate.
On Breathing: I originally had them with a set of gills, along with a single lung-like structure (similar to the lungfish) for acting abovewater. I don't really like this anymore, as it is rather implausible. Absorbing oxygen from the air is a interesting idea, though it brings te problem of how they survive abovewater (they'd suffocate immediately).
Back to the link: I want to keep it away from a touching-only thing, for the reason that it disrupts too much of what I want it to do. Perhaps a compromise is in order, making it a dual-layer thing. There is the underlying subconscious, which forms a sort of "pool" of psychic energy that Atlantean psykers draw from. This greater mind also serves as the demon-shield thing, protecting Atlanteans connected to the subconscious from possession by the denizens of the Warp. Both of these could tie together in being reasons why they were unconcerned with Chaos and demons, since their psykers were not at risk from the warp, and any demon attempting to possess one would in effect be attempting to attack an entire race all at once, and they had never encountered demons in corporeal form.
On the other hand could be a more direct link, where Atlanteans in physical contact can speak telepathically to each other a la Star Trek Vulcans. This could lead to ceremonies and taboos like you mentioned.
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Post by rsljudd on Oct 15, 2004 10:01:25 GMT -5
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Oct 15, 2004 18:29:52 GMT -5
well, it's not totally awry. The race has already undergone a major physiological rewrite, but most concepts are the same.
The legs and arms are excellent, especially the hands/flippers. Very close to what I envisioned.
The body is all right.
Sorry, the head is the only think I don't like about it. I know, beggars can't be choosers, but the craniums in question are far too crocodile/dinosaurish for my tastes. If you can contact Darkizar, and get him to open up his sketch account with some Atlantean head sketches, you'd see a head rendering that I was very partial to in the upper left. (The thread's in the Artwork section, titled "Concepts").
Overall,kudos for doing this unrequested/unprompted. You've also reminded me to get cracking finishing the fishy-boyz. ;D
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Post by rsljudd on Oct 16, 2004 6:17:11 GMT -5
well, it's not totally awry. The race has already undergone a major physiological rewrite, but most concepts are the same. The legs and arms are excellent, especially the hands/flippers. Very close to what I envisioned. The body is all right. Sorry, the head is the only think I don't like about it. I know, beggars can't be choosers, but the craniums in question are far too crocodile/dinosaurish for my tastes. If you can contact Darkizar, and get him to open up his sketch account with some Atlantean head sketches, you'd see a head rendering that I was very partial to in the upper left. (The thread's in the Artwork section, titled "Concepts"). Overall,kudos for doing this unrequested/unprompted. You've also reminded me to get cracking finishing the fishy-boyz. ;D ok no problem ,i'll wipe the T-Rex/Barney head off and put more of an ...ell,s or Brontosaur.s type on instead , ;D img.photobucket.com/albums/v420/juddski/ALTH.jpg unfortunatly i can't seem to access Dakizar's pictures ...so... here's a couple of my versions. no1 1a/ power armour?just a doodle really (the neck should be longer) 1b close up of how the hand would fit in the armour glove A cobra /loch ness snake like head? B shark like head? C green tree snake/shark type head? D Slow worm/lizard type head? don't worry if none of these are what you wanted ,just let me know where*if any* i can change/alter them to your suit your creations? Do you want me to change the body? or are you happy asit is?
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Post by malika on Oct 16, 2004 12:07:56 GMT -5
perhaps make the armour look more as if its made out of sea shells?
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Post by rsljudd on Oct 16, 2004 13:56:07 GMT -5
perhaps make the armour look more as if its made out of sea shells? ;D ;D it was just a doodle really,i'd like to get the ''look'' of the Atlanteans right first...... it's a thought 'tho' thanks malika........................................ but at this moment in time i personally wouldn't have a clue how to draw that convincingly
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Oct 16, 2004 16:08:23 GMT -5
I like "D" the best. Maybe elongate the head and eyes a tiny fraction. Also, the body seems a little too alligator-ish. Try breaking up the chest things into a scale pattern, they're more fish than lizards. The necks do need to be slightly longer. On the armor: Malika's idea of sea-shell-ish plates is nice. The stuff was intended to be almost form-fitting too, so swimming in it would be possible. It's tentatively a sort of hydraulic power armor/wet suit, but what it looks like is completely up for grabs.
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Post by rsljudd on Oct 17, 2004 7:15:39 GMT -5
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Oct 17, 2004 7:43:56 GMT -5
beautiful. just beautiful.
The "bubbles" on the hands are a little wonky, but that's just quibbling. Really great.
I don't have to pay for these, do I? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by rsljudd on Oct 17, 2004 8:54:10 GMT -5
beautiful. just beautiful. The "bubbles" on the hands are a little wonky, but that's just quibbling. Really great. I don't have to pay for these, do I? ;D ;D ;D lol,not unless you want to??? ;D ;D ;D, no i'm just glad you like them and i can actually do some thing constructive, and able to contribute to bring the A.S.P. to life so to speak instead of stumbling through everything i do ........... ;D...ho the bubbles on the hands were/are pads/sucker type things but i'll leave them off
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Oct 17, 2004 9:04:22 GMT -5
You are now an official Valued Member of the Atlantean Sector Project.... ...that is what it's called, right?
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