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Post by zholud on Sept 8, 2004 9:12:38 GMT -5
The workings of navigator society is a fascinating area of 40k, however I doubt this area is ever going to be centre stage, and so official fluff may always be a bit light. This is so true… one may argue whether it is for good or bad, but unless they enter as lead figures on the board, most fans will give a damn about them. However light fluff give more space for own ideas and concepts, because loose stuff fits anything  It is interesting to contemplate how the Navigators maintain control of their own destiny, don't become 'slaves', why there aren't any clones etc. They aren’t slaves in Imperium because the Emperor gave them great immunity. Even inquisitor cannot just come and say – I don’t like this navigator – kill him/her… As for clones, your ideas about enzyme therapy for foetus can be easily linked with my nurture vs nature idea. In edition to that, in order for the navigator to use their abilities they have to be weak Psykers otherwise other Psyker abilities 'drown out the sense' like too much static. I see the point. However trained psykers have better control as well, so could they clean up the signal? This still boils down to why not non-Navis Noblite steermen, taken from weak psykers, augmented with some kind on lenses made by Mechanicus… even if they are inferior to true navigators, don’t they have at least some ‘vision’? you know, the difference between blind and short sighted… On top of that, Mutants and Psykers spring up all through out the Imperium, and considering the Navigators are weak Psykers wouldn't they be more likely to have full Psyker children. Unless the strong as weak psyker genes are opposite to each other… like the fact that you are a man does not affect that your children will be (are?) men. And marriage of two mulattos does not bring nergos on balto-caucasian offspring. The second idea is that if a Navigator with the 'magnifying' warp eye is born a full Psyker, and able to perceive much more of the warp and indeed channel the warp, that the warp eye would burn a hole straight through their brain: overloading it to the point of total destruction (Bang!). Liked the theory to that point, than overloaded… I guess there are too much bangs in 40k already but I catch you drift. The last point is: as the warp is emotional, and females have greater emotional capacity, and 'female intuition' wouldn't they be more likely to become a Psyker? If this is so, it may result in far less female navigators in the Imperium, but those that do exist would be 'brilliant' due to their multitasking, touchy feely brain. Hard to say… in Eisenhorn most pariah (anti-psykers) were female. While almost all psykers in novels are male. This can be auditorium-caused shift of course – most writers and readers are male. A Navigator child would have to be screened at birth for any sign of full Psyker abilities markers and if found the pregnancy would be terminated (it is better for the child not to have it's head go BANG!). Have they ever attempted to make psyker-navigator? Just to be sure it does not work? In my write up there is a legend that Magnus one-eyed from the Thousand Sons SM Legion, was an attempt to link psyker and navigator genes… but it was written on the basis of non-psyker navigators. However, if a very strong Psyker marker is detected, perhaps surgery could be preformed to remove the 'warp eye' and have the child grow up as a normal Psyker (no navigator ability). Maybe this mutilated mutant of a mutant has a place in Navigator society, perhaps some kind of secret navigator assassin/ protector/ bodyguard (after all how could you tell, if wearing an eye cover?). It may be this non-navigator Psyker is the reason people think some navigators have Psyker powers? Without the eye and with good surgery he/she can enter inquisition/Administratum/Ministorum/Mechanicus and influence them from within. That’s why in my thought I pointed that the eye per se may be sign of navigator but not the true centre of his abilities. This creates some disparency with Ian Watson’s Inquisitor trilogy, but I never liked that piece anyway ;D Finally, Cloning. I think that maybe: Navigators have a natural tendency to be born as full Psykers unless the Navigator's doctors intervene. Perhaps they administer special (hormone) drugs to control the foetus' development. With a lot of time to experiment and with Me canicus premise, I guess the secret should have been revealed in all those millennia. I don't think female stay at home to breed children, as zholud pointed out they make the best navigators, No real mention in official fluff, the Emoperor’s ship was never named, as well as its navigator. There is an alternative: Navigators could travel in families! As female Navigator's would be very, very rare, very powerful, and high status then they would be married off at a young age (arranged, take their pick, gene screen selection?), so any mature female navigator an person encounters is always going to be married. In Mattew Farrer’s Legacy female navigator, quite high ranking, travels w/o entourage. Moreover I still prefer my multi-wife and multi-husband idea for navigators.  |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 8, 2004 19:07:26 GMT -5
Hmmn... too tired to reply to such a large thread, but what the heck. Perhaps, but I would have to agree with you. I liked the Drizzt Do'Urden books but only because the character appealed to me and I liked the description of Menzo... bugger... that city I can never spell, but which I'm sure that daz0 will be more than happy to furnish. Oh yes, and the... bugger... ones with Sorak in. I'll let you know when I figure out what I was meaning to say or what I actually meant with what I said. Not really when you come down to it... though it was relatively obviously and rather cool way of integrating the new and the old 'fluff' myself. The concept you already know of, and I believe zholud started a discussion of it fairly recently on Portent. If you backtrack a few years you'll also see it cropping up in discussions on warp travel, etc., on that board. Erm, not quite... at least not for me. It's warp travel, not Stargate... No, merely different tastes... In the dark future there are only sperm banks... Silly, I know, but valid. Who is to say that marriage is anything other than an exchange of 'dowery' and sex cells? As stated numerously elsewhere. The whole thing about warp travel is that it is a bastardised mix of 'Age of Sail' imagery coupled with the interesting analogies made by bringing along the submarine approach. I agree with the depth thing but still prefer the 'warp sail' ideas. It just seems more fun than the cork approach. Am fairly sure of it... maybe it was me trying to justify a cool concept. To be fair the term is fairly neutral except for kin-derived focus (which the eldar Clans do not have). It is, in other words, just a word. Mormons in the 19th century England spring to mind... All are slaves to their society... Now you're getting into the question of definitions of nobility, which I could harp on about for some time... As mentioned above, yes. They not only 'age' with greater speed, but also go down the Dune approach as well... |
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Post by Dazo on Sept 9, 2004 3:26:10 GMT -5
Menzoberranzan ;D You might enjoy the war of the spider queen books, all of it is set in the underdark Ah right, zholud can you give me a shove in the right direction. Did you mean like in ye olde england where families had the name of the land, lancaster, warick, cornwall that sort of thing  Well what can I say, you know what I meant that the real universe would be partially visible during this mode of travel. Any way warp drive is a form of interdimensional travel so  Thats probably right, navigator children are that important to a house, why would they leave procreation in the hands of mother nature, recreation may be the only reason navigators do "it" The deep sea/coastal water analgy works well then as you can have both sail and submersible imagery Which I would imagine you dislike, I've only seen that description in wolfblade so one would actually have to question the validity of that concept. It seems a little fake to me |
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Post by Sojourner on Sept 9, 2004 9:17:42 GMT -5
Regarding the 'warp=sea' analogy...
I see the warp as being a fluid, flowing entity 'beneath' realspace. When you're in realspace, you're floating on the surface. Entering the warp can be seen as 'immersion' in the body of water which represents warp space. For short jumps, that is, without a navigator, technological apparatus can plunge a ship into the upper levels of the fluid body and push it a short distance before re-emerging. At this level the amount of current is negligible which carries little risk but also means that 'catching' a current and travelling quickly is impossible. The possibility arises that there is little risk of warp entity activity either, which is why drifting hulks can linger in the warp for some time without being assailed.
Navigators, on the other hand, have a triple purpose. Firstly, and obviously, they serve to sense the astronomican and thus know where it is going. Secondly, they steer the ship in the currents of the warp which occur in the deeper levels. Thirdly, they also serve to submerge the ship to these levels in the first place, and hold it there.
These deep levels are where daemons reside, incidentally. Which is why the more you want to get out of the warp, the more risky it is to do so. The very deepest level, that is, the 'bottom', is where the chaos Gods themselves reside.
We might also say that human 'essence' naturally floats, while warp entities tend to sink.
One final thought. Consider a duck on a pond. If diving duck is to warp ship as swimming duck is to realspace ship, flying duck is as....what?
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 9, 2004 11:10:51 GMT -5
Oh, that post is too funny. Well a certain bit of it anyway and I mean this entirely positive... There was just something that tickled me...  I see the warp as being a fluid, flowing entity 'beneath' realspace. When you're in realspace, you're floating on the surface. Entering the warp can be seen as 'immersion' in the body of water which represents warp space. Yep, that's broadly it in my interpretation as well. You get transitory thermoclines operating to variably segregate and 'hide' certain bits of the warp from other bits, etc. Relate them to gravity or whatever, but they exist... I personally extend the concept of 'storms' downwards, as it were, using a variation of the Beaufort Scale since it is useful for a skill modifier in terms of RPG... With that said, though, it's arithmetic and that doesn't strike me as right. Ah well. For short jumps, that is, without a navigator, technological apparatus can plunge a ship into the upper levels of the fluid body and push it a short distance before re-emerging. The Cork Model, which I am strongly against. I disagree with the premise that an object in the warp has a tendency to return to the material universe insofar as it will naturally precipitate except under unusual circumstances. Rather, there is a 'barrier' (think ice, but it's not; more huge surface tension of water! ) that prevents this natural movement unless it is 'pierced' through various means. Power is what gets you through the 'barrier' (as well as skill, if you take Farseer to heart). What happens underneath there is a product of the 'warp sails' and the control thereof. If you don't have that capability then you're basically moving just underneath the surface... Indeed, as you go 'deeper' the greater the fragmentation of the laws of reality as you reach the singularity point (rather correspondence point to borrow from MtA) which defines the break-down of 'objective' reality and true subjectivity: the Realms of Chaos themselves. (Thankfully another barrier lies between them and the rest of the universe... again, for me. But this last bit isn't really that relevant, just the depth=danger approach.) Navigators have the advantage of being able to 'go deep', as it were. They are constantly able to monitor the warp around them, sensing those points that are not hidden behind a 'thermocline'. Calculated jumps are stuck to the surface, their 'sensors' being able to view the warp only to a limited extent beneath the 'surface' (the lower manifold, for me)... Given that the warp is both naturally and artificially peturbed it is not always possible for the algorithms of a 'warp computer' to predict these upswellings, etc. Well, that's kind of the hokey analogy that I'm working with at the moment. Kind of has some potential but there are still glitches to work out... but it does allow for significant Navigator abilities as well as a reasonable 'safe' (on average) calculated jump which is dependent upon local conditions, e.g. if you've got warp storms in the immediate area, you increase the probability of a significant upswelling from the deeper warp and, therefore, of something nasty happening. (This defines a continuum between interpretations, rather than a defined "warp travel is too dangerous" approach or, as mentioned elsewhere, the "hyperspace approach".) Thirdly, they also serve to submerge the ship to these levels in the first place, and hold it there. Just a 'how you said it' thing, but I would say that the Navigators do not hold the ship there but the 'Geller Fields' operating within the fluid environment (i.e. it's still not operating along the Cork Model of warp travel). They control the fields to maintain the position, but they do not through an act of will inherent to a Navigator maintain the position. These deep levels are where daemons reside, incidentally. Oh yes... and then some! Which is why the more you want to get out of the warp, the more risky it is to do so. The very deepest level, that is, the 'bottom', is where the chaos Gods themselves reside. Oh, you go for that too? I'm now getting worried. Either this is a teasing post where my approach is posted back at me, your being serious and have independently come up with a parallel and similar interpretation, or the world is about to end... We might also say that human 'essence' naturally floats, while warp entities tend to sink. This is the bit that made me laugh out loud. So, basically your saying that sh*t floats? One final thought. Consider a duck on a pond. If diving duck is to warp ship as swimming duck is to realspace ship, flying duck is as....what? Not even going to touch that one. |
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Post by zholud on Sept 9, 2004 11:17:37 GMT -5
In the dark future there are only sperm banks... Silly, I know, but valid. Who is to say that marriage is anything other than an exchange of 'dowery' and sex cells? Generally, if we go Dune way, there is an idea that games with genes can be seriously amoral as well as artificial ovum fertilisation. Because it sets human on the same level with animals and because it can lead to construction of bio-computers (they had own men of stone vs men of steel battle). I still prefer olde way for navigators, partially due to aesthetic reasons So, while there quite possibly sperm banks are used, they are not major source for new navigators… this affects my family approach greatly… As mentioned above, yes. They not only 'age' with greater speed, but also go down the Dune approach as well... Note also that in Dune Encyclopaedia there is some stuff that hints that their navigators not fully human, having some stuff from fish in order to better navigate in 3D. their difference from 40k way is that they see future s and are able to choose the best next move in hyperspace. Imaginary that can be applied to 40k, but modified significantly before that |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 9, 2004 14:12:18 GMT -5
Because it sets human on the same level with animals and because it can lead to construction of bio-computers... Actually, artificial fertilisation moves humans away from animals. It kind of goes with the term 'artificial', as in "not natural". Obvious counter-argument works along prevention of genetic drift caused by mutating effects of the warp. The 'fluff' already has them suffering significant decay due to the artificial onset of senescence (erm... age, just in case) as well as more extreme mutation resulting from, presumably, their intimate contact with the warp. ('Fluff' is obviously hazy with this point since Astropaths also suffer the same problem, but other psykers do not necessarily (although there is an absence of evidence here).) Removal and storage of sex cells is a means by which genetic drift from key traits which the Navigators wish to reinforce and/or enhance. With increasing 'warp exposure' (gotta love hazy terminology :  there is a proportionately greater chance of damage to these organs and cells... And, of course, there is the weird science aspect. While genetic drift is measurable, 'taint' is something that is very hard to define... So, while there quite possibly sperm banks are used, they are not major source for new navigators… this affects my family approach greatly… Fairy snuff... I just thought of it on the spur of the moment and felt that it made an interesting approach which didn't over-rely on marital exchange being predicated upon a physical act. Rather it is abstracted... Oodles of fun could be had depending on the Houses involved, the nature of the contract (temporary, permanent), blah blah... Ah well. Maybe I'm just overtly fond of destroying the traditional imagery when people use terms such as 'clans' or 'houses'. ...there is some stuff that hints that their navigators not fully human... I believe that doesn't hold up to the books, or at least the prequels whereby they are stated as being normal humans with varying affinity with melange. |
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Post by Sojourner on Sept 9, 2004 15:17:54 GMT -5
Well, my ideas were in part formulated after seeing your (far more complex) approach with regards to 'levels' but the workings of the various doohickeys are my own.
Besides, isn't it 'obvious'? I find it difficult to see how else it could work, given what GW have already written.
Oh, and the 'floating/sinking' comment was an attempt to explain why empty hulks quite happily drift through the warp unpowered whereas ships teeming with life need massive warp engines and geller fields to keep them there. It also ties in quite nicely with the 'creatures of the deep' imagery.
And another edit:
Do we think that warp storms can be bad enough to prevent ships from even entering the warp, or more likely, being ripped apart as soon as they break the surface? This conjures up 'nice' (read:terrifying) images of a ship trying to Immerse just as a massive surge wells up, leaving it a nice gaping hole through which to pour into realspace and create a great big mess.
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 9, 2004 16:01:54 GMT -5
Well, my ideas were in part formulated after seeing your (far more complex) approach with regards to 'levels' but the workings of the various doohickeys are my own. It's the way that it works... you're influenced by something and you draw your own conclusions. In this regards the conclusions were, for the most part, the same as my own. Besides, isn't it 'obvious'? I find it difficult to see how else it could work, given what GW have already written. One would presume so, but 'presume' is so close to 'assume' with all the cliched phrases about assuming something... Oh, and the 'floating/sinking' comment was an attempt to explain why empty hulks quite happily drift through the warp unpowered whereas ships teeming with life need massive warp engines and geller fields to keep them there. The assumption here is that Geller Fields act as a 'cork', surely? If you remove this assumption then it is the natural movements of the warp that generate, erm, movement for things whether they have a Geller Field or not. The Geller Field acts as both motive means and 'protection'... Thus you get the 'mergings' of ships mentioned in the 'fluff'... It also ties in quite nicely with the 'creatures of the deep' imagery. Yes, definitely. Which is a part of the imagery that I was going for. Do we think that warp storms can be bad enough to prevent ships from even entering the warp... That is the 'fluff'. |
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Post by zholud on Sept 10, 2004 5:22:27 GMT -5
Well, my ideas were in part formulated after seeing your (far more complex) approach with regards to 'levels' but the workings of the various doohickeys are my own. Generally, when I’ve read them, I was amused with how close to Kage interpretation of the warp it was. I agree with levels approach, but have to point that they should not be taken literally, because they are more shades of grey than anything else. Do we think that warp storms can be bad enough to prevent ships from even entering the warp, or more likely, being ripped apart as soon as they break the surface? Generally you can easily enter the warp in the middle of the storm, but cannot hope to exit it later. At least I guess so. But maybe back to navigators, because warp nature is discussed in depth in other thread… |
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Post by zholud on Sept 10, 2004 7:56:37 GMT -5
Actually, artificial fertilisation moves humans away from animals. It kind of goes with the term 'artificial', as in "not natural". I’ve meant domesticated cattle, not animals in general. There is a latent premise in Dune that they actually use it with cattle, and its cannot be overly surprising. It is possibly that in 40k Imperium they use it as well. Obvious counter-argument works along prevention of genetic drift caused by mutating effects of the warp. Again latent premise that warp-mutation has negative impact on genes and on reproductive function. This possibly comes with warp analogy to x-ray radiation, which does increase rate of mutations… so, while it is possible, it is hypothesis and not the fact. The 'fluff' already has them suffering significant decay due to the artificial onset of senescence Maybe not decay but improvement, after all good navigator is old navigator, at least I got it that way – Novator (House Patriarch/Martiarch) is assumed to be older than average navigator, and better is navigational ability. This lead me to presumption that he may have some privilege in getting off-spring, something akin to alpha male in many animal (including human) societies. If this hasn’t caused degeneration of navigators as species, possibly mutation is not that harmful. At the same time I still thinking about purely artificial navigators, maybe even vat grown, to push things to extreme… maybe less women because lesser need in them? I believe that doesn't hold up to the books, or at least the prequels whereby they are stated as being normal humans with varying affinity with melange. Not in books, correct. However, from what I got, encyclopaedia was printed before Herbert’s death and was proof-read on idea level by him. I misinterpreted the fishy thing though – he said marine mammals, with the idea of inborn 3D orientation. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 11, 2004 5:46:33 GMT -5
Again latent premise that warp-mutation has negative impact on genes and on reproductive function. Only insofar as it is viewed in negative terms in the books themselves. Everyone is always talking about a price, yet there is no price with Navigation? Yep, you get some froopy mutations but ones that don't really affect you? Naaah... Maybe not decay but improvement, after all good navigator is old navigator... Skill and experience. An old Navigator is both skilled and experienced. Where possible it should be possible to integrate the 'power vs. skill' continuum which is currently "disregarded" in your interpretation. E.g. you imply that 'power' is merely a function of age, and that you cannot really have 'powerful' young Navigators. For me this might be a mistake... This lead me to presumption that he may have some privilege in getting off-spring... Yep. What did you say? Ah yes... "so, while it is possible, it is hypothesis and not the fact." If this hasn’t caused degeneration of navigators as species, possibly mutation is not that harmful. Circular argument based upon preference to maintain normal physical breeding patterns, i.e. increasing the normality of the Navigators when taking from the base species. If I applied the above suggestion based upon my preference, however, I'm fairly sure that you'd get the same circularity. It's inescapable as you use preference to interpret a given feature and then feed that back into the rest. I misinterpreted the fishy thing though – he said marine mammals, with the idea of inborn 3D orientation. Fair enough. I think it's a horrendous approach, though, but only for Dune navigators where melange is important. For 40k navigators... entirely possible. |
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Post by CELS on Sept 11, 2004 9:57:12 GMT -5
In the dark future there are only sperm banks... LoL! That is so cliché, it's almost not even funny. That's actually a good question, and most fitting for the Navigator houses, in my opinion. Not to mention that it's so cold and unromantic that it's totally 40k! Marriage should be nothing more than politics for Navigator houses. Companionship shouldn't enter into it. |
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Post by zholud on Sept 13, 2004 9:15:46 GMT -5
Only insofar as it is viewed in negative terms in the books themselves. Everyone is always talking about a price, At the same time I cannot recall any mention about direct negative affect of warp travel… no inquisitor or guardsman says something akin – seems I was in warp for too long, my children will get horns and additional arms Price may be linked to probability to be lost in the warp one day, which is related to the time spend in the warp. Plus price in all those nightmares you’ll see during the travel. Yep, you get some froopy mutations but ones that don't really affect you? Naaah... warp does affect you when you are there long enough… but how long is enough? Mutated 13th company of Space Wolves were there for 10,000 Imperium years and had predisposition for werewolf gene so to speak… Chaotic guys get mutations as awards, so whether warp mutates you w/o your agreement… Skill and experience. An old Navigator is both skilled and experienced. Where possible it should be possible to integrate the 'power vs. skill' continuum which is currently "disregarded" in your interpretation. Skill is quadratic function of age dedicated to the work, suggesting there is some maximum point… but I want old navigators get off-spring with their old, mutated genes as well. It is more my desire than anything like – this should be so because otherwise it is not 40k-ish enough. E.g. you imply that 'power' is merely a function of age, and that you cannot really have 'powerful' young Navigators. For me this might be a mistake... I favour existence of young powerful navigators, but possibly they should proof that they are powerful and not just lucky. That's actually a good question, and most fitting for the Navigator houses, in my opinion. Not to mention that it's so cold and unromantic that it's totally 40k! Marriage should be nothing more than politics for Navigator houses. Companionship shouldn't enter into it. Marriage is politics there, both inter-house and intra-house, I agree. I’m just unsure about method of getting pregnant… Meanwhile, another question: Where is navigator room is located in a ship? Does he need good enough look-around? Or can he use info about warp currents from equipment on the ship? |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 13, 2004 9:30:42 GMT -5
Price may be linked to probability to be lost in the warp one day, which is related to the time spend in the warp. Plus price in all those nightmares you’ll see during the travel. Who gives a fig about the nightmares, unless you're going to go down the horrendous route of 'genetic memory' translating into susceptibility to mutation and/or 'taint'. Horrendous idea, that. warp does affect you when you are there long enough… but how long is enough? Threshold limitations again. Storage of sex cells allows extension beyond questionable viability meaning you have no particular 'shelf life' as participating member in family politics. Or rather kin-clan politics since the Navigators canonically operate on a multiple-family per House situation (i.e. similar to the Irish derbhfine and fine). Mutated 13th company of Space Wolves were there for 10,000 Imperium years... Of course they were... Are you really sure that they were there for 10,000 Imperium years, or that they were in the warp for a sufficient period of time such that in the matterium 10,000 years had passed. Remember that GW is particularly bad at this type of thing. Further, were they protected by a Geller Field? Was some other factor in operation? Chaotic guys get mutations as awards, so whether warp mutates you w/o your agreement… Cf. Soul Drinkers in Soul Drinkers and more particularly Chalice of Blood (or whatever it is called). Skill is quadratic function of age dedicated to the work, suggesting there is some maximum point… Yes, but the impact upon this is dependent on the nature of the Navigator. Note that some Navigators automatically work from a saddle point, not a maxima... but I want old navigators get off-spring with their old, mutated genes as well. Very 'Vampire' of you. Do you not think that this is problematic in terms of viability of the Houses? It is more my desire than anything... I just see to many problems in terms of viability of the navis nobilite itself. I favour existence of young powerful navigators, but possibly they should proof that they are powerful and not just lucky. I prefer a spectrum of activity and remember the phrase: "There are bold soldiers and old soldiers; but there are no bold, old soldiers." (Cannot remember what the original phrase used. Might even have been sailors.) Marriage is politics there, both inter-house and intra-house, I agree. I’m just unsure about method of getting pregnant… Note above comment with regards to the "shelf life" of the Navigator. In circumstances where a Navigator is 'powerful' but is sufficiently 'far gone' along mutation, utilisation of corrupt genes would be problematic, even insulting to the house into which you are attempting to enter marriage contract. Thus you used stored sex cells... In younger Navigators, they have the fun of getting all jiggy with it. Where is navigator room is located in a ship? The 'fluff' is contentious on this matter. Newer 'fluff' has a "navigator bubble" which extends, at least partially, beyond the hull of the ship. Earlier 'fluff' implied that it didn't matter. Note, however, that not all Navigators can see into the warp from the matterium... the whole LOS gig. Does he need good enough look-around? Or can he use info about warp currents from equipment on the ship? Problem is that if you do this then what is to prevent someone from learning the trade without the 'skill'? It is in the realms of possibility... More likely situation is that the Navigator can see through the 'thermoclines' (?warpclines, etc.) whereas the 'warp sensors' are incapable of this, subjected more to the problems of EM sensors. E.g. the navigator 'senses/feels' that distance is stretched in a given distance, while the 'distance reader' just doesn't return a signal... Cf. Eye of Terror and the "speed indicator". It's not a question of what you see, but what it means, perhaps? |
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Well what can I say, 
there is a proportionately greater chance of damage to these organs and cells... And, of course, there is the weird science aspect. While genetic drift is measurable, 'taint' is something that is very hard to define...
