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Post by Minister on Jan 21, 2004 4:28:31 GMT -5
Perhaps not an Ordinatus, but I can definatley see a strong Mechanicus aquatic force (don't call it a navy, just to be on the safe side).
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Post by CELS on Jan 21, 2004 8:21:30 GMT -5
Why not a sea-faring ordinatus? The macro-tank thing has already been done, and I want to do something original. A big cannon for hunting gargants is cool, but not two of them. Well, actually, it is, but the Ordinatus is supposed to be a bunch of unique machines.
I've gotta tell ya, I'm pretty much in love with the big sea ship idea. And it makes sense too, to exploit the orks' enormous weakness, since they don't have any sea faring vessels.
If no one likes the idea though, then maybe some kind of big walker, with four or six legs. Like an AT-AT, only a lot meaner. Hmmm?
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Post by malika on Jan 21, 2004 9:42:12 GMT -5
well on armageddon the orks did have ships...they might also loot imperial ships (yes I believe there is such a thing as the IG naval forces) I tried to work this out...well just get suggestions for naval warfare, and Im surprised to see how many people were really anti naval battles for 40k...
but the idea could be cool if done well
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Post by Minister on Jan 21, 2004 11:41:13 GMT -5
Hmmmm...
Yes! An Imperial Superheavy Grav-tank! With Repeater Plasma Blastguns and a brace of plasma cannon. Operable on both land and sea. Then back this up with a dedicated aquatic division of the Skitarri who can have the "real" ships and submarines.
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Post by malika on Jan 21, 2004 12:03:53 GMT -5
grav? hmm maybe some relic from the DAOT? you think the AM would use great numbers of grav tech?
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Post by CELS on Jan 21, 2004 13:49:12 GMT -5
Hmmm, a grav-tank is pretty interesting, I admit... What would its purpose be though? With armament like the stuff you suggest, I'm not sure I can imagine a specific purpose. With armament like that, you won't be much good against gargants, and yet if you wanted to build a machine specifically to deal with large numbers of orks and ork vehicles, I imagine that something like a big missile battery would be better. Think MLRS x 1000. What would be the point in making it a grav tank? If this was an Eldar machine, there wouldn't be much point in asking that question, since they master grav-tech very well, but in the Imperium, grav tech is rare and expensive. Obviously, this increased maneuverability means that the vehicle will be operating independently, presumably behind enemy lines. To do what? If this was a sea-faring vessel, it might insert a company or two of storm troopers or Space Marines, who might perform a precision strike against the enemy HQ or supply lines, and then pull back and return to sea before the enemy has chance to rally and regroup. I suppose the grav tank could do the same, without the IG or SMs, but building a grav-tank that has the fighting ability of a company of Storm Troopers or Space Marines sounds expensive.... Building Ordinatus machines seems like a very expensive but neccessary of taking advantage of the enemy's weakness. Or to create a weakness. In this respect, a machine that just kicks ass doesn't make much sense. Sure, you could build a huuge artillery tank, with a 10,000 mm cannon, but a company of Basilisks would do the job better and cheaper, unless you had to remove a mountain or something. Likewise, a superheavy tank with plasma guns might be very deadly, but it would be cheaper to just send in an armoured company / regiment. And I suppose building an Ordinatus sea-faring vessel might be good, but you could do the same job with Skitarri sea ships.... So much for using that argument to get my suggestion through  I guess we should either let common sense decide, or simply the rule of imagery. |
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Post by malika on Jan 21, 2004 13:52:08 GMT -5
skitari sea ships...Im curious about those, what can we expect? I myself think of thunderhawk sized frigattes with probably some anti air craft weapon and then some other weapons (missle launchers, autocannons) for other opponents
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Post by CELS on Jan 21, 2004 14:19:48 GMT -5
For a sea ship to be classified as a frigate, I think it has weigh a certain amount. I imagine it would be something like 1000 metric tons, or maybe 2000. Frigates are big. A sea vessel the size of a thunderhawk would probably not even qualify as to be called a ship, but would be called a gun boat or something.
Skitarri fleets would have all kinds of ships, I imagine. Everything from gun boats to cruisers, and maybe even battle ships. The problem with ships that are as big as cruisers and battle ships though, is that you'd need some pretty impressive drop-ships to get them on and off the planet. I mean, the most powerful crane on earth, today, lifts 14,000 metric tons. And let me tell you, that's one hell of a big crane. Now, imagine how big the drop-ship would have to be. Then, imagine what kind of propulsion would be needed to land that thing on a planet, and then have it enter orbit again!
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Post by malika on Jan 21, 2004 14:49:14 GMT -5
hmm gunboats..I like those, but still I think from a tactical perspective the imperium wouldnt build huge ships...more smaller sized, faster ships, more manouvrable.
well maybe many of the ships never leave the planet on which they have been created, pure as a defensive thing
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 21, 2004 14:57:02 GMT -5
How about a concept I thought up a while back: Air Destroyers, I call them.
Basically a big, roughly Thunderhawk-shaped hovering armoured barge with lots of guns, I'm thinking along the lines of three or four Hydra turrets, some heavy autocannons and some missiles. They would be capable of hovering over land blasting stuff, while being able to soak up return fire with shields and heavy armour, and can also boost up into orbit to deploy from ships and such.
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Post by malika on Jan 21, 2004 15:48:32 GMT -5
grav tech is very rare in the imperium, maybe as some sort of gunships...aircraft style, maybe a walker like that
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 21, 2004 16:28:51 GMT -5
CELS, this is the Imperium. They use planets as harbours. Scale isn't a problem for them.
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Post by CELS on Jan 21, 2004 16:50:08 GMT -5
I think boats and ships in all sizes would be of great use in 40k, as they are today. Sure, you want your gun boats doing patrols along the coasts and up rivers, but you also want destroyers and cruisers crossing seas and really bringing the big guns to bear on the enemy, when you can't reach them with your ground-based artillery.
Air-destroyers sound really nifty, but remember that I'm looking for a single, terrifying machine, built for one purpose. If it's an aircraft, explain why you can't do the job with a squadron of Marauders, or ten squadrons. If it's a tank, why not use an armoured company? If it's a boat, why not use Skitarii boats? If it's a walker, why not use a Titan? Etc.
As for scale, I know this is the Imperium, and I know this is 40k. But think about what kind of resources are needed to build, maintain and supply the kind of drop ships that have the ability to pick up several thousand tons - at sea - and take off into orbit.
You could buy ten Imperial Guard regiments for that, and it would probably be a lot more effective too.
And yes, Malika, gunships and walkers are a possibility. But we need a purpose behind this unique and invaluable machine.
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Post by malika on Jan 21, 2004 17:04:56 GMT -5
unique...hmm I read the stuff u wrote about the forgeworld...there were golden men there, maybe this unique thing is made out of tech which was left from the time of the golden men
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Post by CELS on Jan 21, 2004 17:15:30 GMT -5
There were no golden men on Proteus... and yes, technology dating back from that time is a possibility. But really Malika, we need specific concepts. What kind of technology? What kind of machine? What kind of purpose?
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