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Post by zholud on May 22, 2004 11:54:21 GMT -5
I cannot agree with you, CELS on this matter. The part ‘Boarding Actions in the original BFG (blue) book says the following (with my emphasis underlined): BOARDING ACTIONS Boarding actions are bloody, desperate battles between ships at very close range. The boarding vessel manoeuvres close to an enemy ship and sends a wave of armed crewmen across via teleporters, shuttles, life pods and in pressure suits to grab a foothold on the outer hull of the enemy vessel. The attackers then blow breaches in the hull and swarm in to try to overcome the defending crew in vicious firelights and hand-to-hand combat. Boarding actions are dangerous for both sides: even a victorious ship may suffer critical damage in the fighting or a prospective victim may explode with catastrophic results.I generally have no problems whether to use ‘jumping’ Marines or Drop pods, because everything is possible. I just point out that variants for the boarding aren’t limited to torpedoes and pods. And later we always may say: FB use ‘magic gadget insert here’ for the boarding actions. In game terms treat as torpedoes (assault craft, etc).
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Post by CELS on May 22, 2004 13:21:09 GMT -5
In that case, I stand corrected
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Post by Sikkukkut on May 22, 2004 22:47:36 GMT -5
Thus, arguing that they prefer boarding actions because they dislike boarding craft such as Thunderhawks and boarding torpedoes is rather silly, since they use boarding craft in boarding actions anyway I suppose. Like I said, I'm not all that wedded to this. I was thinking of (a) the passage in the blue book that Zholud quoted, and (b) the storming of the Mechanicus ship at the start of Soul Drinker, where the Marines were outsidethe hull in their armour breaking in through it. (I can't remember if they used small craft to bridge the distance, but they broke in as individuals). If you prefer we can change it to "close-range high-intensity assaults" or something similar; what I wanted to contrast that approach with was the one where Marines go speeding off over huge distances to try to zoom in through turret fire and make a hit-and-run attack on a ship way over on the other side of the battle zone. >checks Yahoo mail< Not yet, unless it was that slew of "Extreme sexual obsessions inside!" mails I just deleted. Well, I sent it to Kage with some of the stuff I hadn't had the chance to do in detail covered by some summarised "bridging text", so I'm going to start fleshing that out to full text in anticipation of getting some comments from Kage that I'll have to work in anyway. So yes. Well, at the moment I'm in the blissful state of having no other demands on my spare time apart from Law and Order: Criminal Intent, so progress is definitely being made.
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Post by Lordof on May 23, 2004 7:33:08 GMT -5
I like the idea of a short range drop pod bombardment of another ship (Do we think the the FrostBringers may have adapted their drops pods to have magnetic clamps? To hold on better to an enemy ship.)
Well just an idea as I personally think that drop pods are one of the coolest concepts for SM
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Post by zholud on May 23, 2004 11:29:23 GMT -5
I suppose. Like I said, I'm not all that wedded to this. I was thinking of (a) the passage in the blue book that Zholud quoted, and (b) the storming of the Mechanicus ship at the start of Soul Drinker, where the Marines were outsidethe hull in their armour breaking in through it. (I can't remember if they used small craft to bridge the distance, but they broke in as individuals). From what I recall, Drinkers used drop pods to land and cut through the outer wall of the station (not Mechanicus). For sure they had wet-ware choirs on the pods. And in the same time the Mechanicus platform had no external short range defences. And also, Sikkukkut, look up the ideas on Thor sons ideas on the Other Chapter thread. Right now they are weak, but the main premise is try to create a companies with different, but not too different background for the Chapter. Also what was the original reason for the FBs creation? What about linking it to Sargasso gulf that had to be cleared from the drifting hulks. As a side idea – some non-Mechanicus group was very interested in tech from those hulks. I’m not yet sure who – Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition, traders and some supra-sector bodies, even Arbites. Ones who could really pull a tie in the High Lords council… Maybe Navigator families. If the latter – look up in Hiveworld sub idea on unusual Meksumian alliance for possible details. Or go pro-Mechanicus way…
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Post by Kage2020 on May 24, 2004 9:06:32 GMT -5
AFAIK the Frost Bringers IA will be published in part-format (bit by bit) beginning this coming weekend, thanks to Sikkukkut. At that point they will be open for discussion not only on the content, but also how to improve the overall article. I've got my own ideas on things to include and, similarly, so does Sikkukkut... Oh yes, and CELS to! I remind project members that the FB's are not the only thing that needs to be completed in the ASP. There are a whole load of other things other than the often-concentrated on adeptus astartes... Kage
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Post by CELS on Jul 2, 2004 0:13:07 GMT -5
Here's my suggestion for the Frost Bringer fleet. As you will notice, it is considerably larger than the Ultramarine fleet (3 battle barges, 8 strike cruisers, 12 rapid strike vessels / escorts), but that's exactly the point. "Bigger even than the Ultramarine fleet!?" Well, yes. I don't think the Ultramarines would have a larger fleet than the average chapter, really, despite their special position.
Now, Fanatic has promised to make new classes of Space Marine ships, that will not be specialized for planetary assault. Though I doubt they'll be making new escorts, they might make special rules for other types of SM cruisers and maybe even Battle Barges. As these new ship types are made, we'll just update the list.
Ship’s class: Ship’s name (Date of Commission) [Captain]
Battleships (3) Battle Barge: Frozen Throne (804.M37) [Master Kerasher] Battle Barge: Winterborne (104.M39) [Master Isater] Battle Barge: Lord Eskonel (233.M38) [Master Mikael]
Cruisers (10) Strike Cruiser: Frosthammer (587.M38) [Master Asheru] Strike Cruiser: Ice Wraith (402.M41) [Master Andreas] Strike Cruiser: Cold Fury (329.M37) [Master Menmire] Strike Cruiser: White Griffon (011.M40) [Master Myron] Strike Cruiser: Spear of Guilliman (804.M37) [Master Theron] Strike Cruiser: Exile (326.M41) [Master Ramses] Strike Cruiser: Void Eagle (754.M39) [Master Straton] Strike Cruiser: Lord Commodus (555.M39) [Master Narmer] Strike Cruiser: Creeping Death (498.M40) [Master Eutychos] Strike Cruiser: Nemesis (271.M41) [Master Hesyre]
Frigates (12) Nova: Crimson Ice (941.M40) [Master Woranus] Nova: Praetorian (832.M39) [Master Lucian] Nova: His Light (153.M39) [Master Akunosh] Nova: Uma Cura (153.M39) [Master Jarlia] Nova: Void Fiend (051.M41) [Master Isacius] Gladius: Rayandin (272.M37) [Master Rogatian] Gladius: Son of Guilliman (265.M38) [Master Khahor] Gladius: Ice Blade (498.M39) [Master Neferti] Gladius: White Talon (433.M40) [Master Raia] Gladius: Purity (102.M39) [Master Serapion] Gladius: Lord Newsted (002.M41) [Master Remedius] Gladius: Exalted (464.M41) [Master Tjaroy]
Destroyers (6) Hunter: Talon (931.M41) [Master Cepter] Hunter: Phantom Lord (365.M39) [Master Seth] Hunter: Emperor's Mercy (724.M37) [Master Eneco] Hunter: Silver Dagger (400.M40) [Master Kashta] Hunter: Lord Cavalera (020.M40) [Master Elias] Hunter: Ice Skull (803.M38) [Master Inarus]
Comments? What rank do you think would be fitting for the captains of rapid strike vessels?
Oh, and we still need a chapter symbol for the Frost Bringers? I think my old suggestion of using a spear is as good as ever, what with their breaching spear and all! Of course, a spear on its own is pretty boring... A spear and a skull? Then again, I did like the suggestion of the Skull with a half-moon in its fangs! Destecado's, was it? Looks good and is very appropriate, considering their love of planetary assaults.
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Post by Sikkukkut on Jul 2, 2004 23:50:06 GMT -5
What rank do you think would be fitting for the captains of rapid strike vessels? "Master" would be my preference, as in "Order the Master of the Lord Eskonel to close for a ship-to-ship assault." Oh, and we still need a chapter symbol for the Frost Bringers? I think my old suggestion of using a spear is as good as ever, what with their breaching spear and all! snipOn that note: WOOOOHOOOOO! I found a scanner that works! Now, hang on a minute... >fiddles about< Hmm. I can't embed it straight into the post, apparently - Kage, may I email it to you to put up somewhere? I don't really have access to a web space that I can store it in.
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Post by CELS on Jul 2, 2004 23:52:31 GMT -5
I like 'Master' too. Master, it shall be. But the same title for all three ship types? And Grand Master sounds cheesy for a ship's captain.
You can e-mail it to me, Sikkukkut, and I'll post it here!
PS: I'm still open for objections and suggestions for ship names, everyone
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Post by Sikkukkut on Jul 3, 2004 0:02:34 GMT -5
CELS, I just sent it to your rocketmail account.
"Lieutenant" I'm not certain about. To my ear it has a modern sound about it, whereas I tend to imagine the Astartes as having a more archaic feel to their rankings. "Master" would do me fine as a generic title for all ship commanders - maybe variations on that? "Master" for the smaller ships, "Squadron Master" the next rank up and "Grand Master" for the commander of the fleet as a whole?
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Post by CELS on Jul 3, 2004 0:24:50 GMT -5
Well, here's Sikkukkut's suggestion. My personal opinion on this crest is that while it might make an impressive banner, it's too intricate for a shoulder pad. It'll just look like a ten-pointed star. That said, I really think the Imperium avoids eight-pointed stars, Sikkukkut. It tends to smell of Chaos, you see Perhaps it would be better to make it a four-pointed star, with the spear across. And maybe we could redesign the tip of the spear. It kinda looks like a harpoon at the moment. Oh, and that's the worst circle I have ever seen, Sikkukkut Destecado, IIRC, it was you who came up with the suggestion of the skull chewing on the half moon. (And my apologies if it was someone else) Perhaps you could draw a suggestion of what you have in mind? You can mail it to me if you don't have webspace yourself. As for titles.. lieutenant is really an archaic title, I think. In the movie Braveheart, Wallace appointed his close friends as lieutenants, IIRC. And lieutenant used to be a real title for Space Marines back in RT days. Anyhoo, on second thought, I think 'Master' is fine for all ships. Space Marines don't seem so hung up on titles, really. I mean, they only seem to have four ranks for most of their chapter. Space Marine / Battle-brother, Sergeant, Captain and Chapter Master / Lord. The problem with using Master, Squadron Master and Grand Master, is that Space Marine fleets are so loosely organised that you might be squadron master one day, and Master the next, as squadrons are formed and broken up again as needed. That, and it would mean the a leader of a destroyer squadron would have a higher rank than the commander of a strike cruiser. But let's just make it 'Master', shall we? I'll update the post above.
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Post by Sikkukkut on Jul 3, 2004 0:39:27 GMT -5
The circle is meant to be a quarter-moon (or quarter-planet, whatever). It's meant to recall the opening scenes of 2001, the sunrise seen from space. Maybe if we went with that and only used the top half of the sunburst and added a few more points?
Incidentally, is anyone else having the problem of the forum letting them log on and post, then saying they're not logged on and kicking them off when they try to actually post their post? I've just lost quite a sizeable post to that and it hasn't put me in a very good mood.
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Post by CELS on Jul 3, 2004 0:48:41 GMT -5
The circle is meant to be a quarter-moon (or quarter-planet, whatever). It's meant to recall the opening scenes of 2001, the sunrise seen from space. Maybe if we went with that and only used the top half of the sunburst and added a few more points? Ah, right. Well, that might work. Yeah, that happens a lot to me when I'm accessing the forum from other computers. I think the problem is solved by checking 'always stay logged-on' (or something along those lines) when you log-in. Otherwise, I suppose the cookies are outdated, and you lose the post.
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Post by Tynesh on Jul 3, 2004 2:21:50 GMT -5
Erm...... ...IMO the fleet is FAR TOO BIG!!! There is enough capacity there to carry 19 companies of marines and their equipment, not including the rapid-strike vessels!!!!! Cut it down please One battle barge and maybe 7-8 strike cruisers would see enough, then a fairly large number of rapid strike escorts. I think that Thunderhawks would be greatly favoured in a FB fleet and fit well with the idea of them boarding ships. If the FB conducted more ambush type engagements, maybe picking of one vessel, disabling it then boarding it, then attacking the enemy again.
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Post by Destecado on Jul 3, 2004 2:38:58 GMT -5
Actually, I didn't come up with this chapter badge...unfortunately, I can't rememebr who did. The only proble that I would see with such a badge is that it might end up being too close to that of the World Eaters.
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