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Robots
Sept 12, 2004 21:04:56 GMT -5
Post by Egarb on Sept 12, 2004 21:04:56 GMT -5
I just recently joined so forgive me if this is in the wrong place (robots aren't exactly a race, but this seemed the most appropriate place) Well, before i descovered the Anargo project I had decided to read up on the robots, I discovered a peice of fluff ( www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/WD104_Imperial_Robots.shtml) saying that robots weren't gone but the Legio had meerly taken a LONG time to regain respect. I was thinking that perhaps in Anargo the Legio weren't so hated anymore, and that perhaps they had started producing more robots (though not nearly as smart since The War Against the Iron Men) again, maybe even in new patterns (see below). Here are a few concept sketches for a robot ive come up with. (I promise if my idea is accepted to put the maximum amount of thought i can in each design, I actually inted to model and cast some in the future) groups.msn.com/totaltau/justsomerobotconceptsketches.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3350groups.msn.com/totaltau/justsomerobotconceptsketches.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3351If it's accepted or not I still inted to be as active as I can Edit: It is possible the fluff is out of date, and I beleive the reference to swapping parts with Dreadnaughts [sp?] refers to the Dreadnaughts as shown by the Dreadnaught models when they first came out. I've never seen an original dreadnaught in comparison to a marine but they look considerably smaller than modern dreads, so no giant plasma cannons on your average robot
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Robots
Sept 13, 2004 5:26:37 GMT -5
Post by malika on Sept 13, 2004 5:26:37 GMT -5
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Robots
Sept 13, 2004 17:06:18 GMT -5
Post by Egarb on Sept 13, 2004 17:06:18 GMT -5
Thank you Malika for pointing that thread out as it made me pause and think. I envisioned the robots as semi-sentient with limited ability to adapt (even dogs can be trained) with the intelligence of... well a gorrilla or such (take for example Koko who learned sign language).
I haven't yet read the ranking system for tech and such, but I envisioned them with normal Imperial tech (state of the art though, probably more advanced than space marine armour?).
I don't think they would be used in a common army though, probably only by Inquisitors or the Adeptus Mechanus.
I envision the rlationship between a robot and his master to be similar to that of a police officer and the dog in his k-9 unit. The dog is a tool and a pet at the same time. Like having a favored wepon he's emotionally attached to.
I imagine that to prevent rebellion there would be a memory sweep ever 20-25 years or so (could lead to some interesting situations if the inqusitor gets TOO attached and decides to report it was cleared, thered be some method for scanning to see though, or it would be done by a Techpreist).
edit: also almost done with a final-ish drawing of the robots above, ill post soon
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Robots
Sept 13, 2004 19:41:27 GMT -5
Post by Egarb on Sept 13, 2004 19:41:27 GMT -5
Erm well Im' not sure if editing was appropriate in this case because it is an update to the robot idea of sorts. Anyway I made a new concept for the robot design I am working on, I gave it all the detail and stuff and think it fits in more with the other Imperial Wargear. (perhaps this should be moved as I now realise) groups.msn.com/totaltau/justsomerobotconceptsketches.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=3352Edit: also i may be gone for a few days as Hurricane Ivan at the moment is coming right at me
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 7:08:05 GMT -5
Post by malika on Sept 14, 2004 7:08:05 GMT -5
Well the Imperium used to have Robots back in the day, they were part of the Legio Cybernetica. Just look for it on google and you will see what I mean
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 7:13:10 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Sept 14, 2004 7:13:10 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, the Legio Cybernetica does not exist. It is old fluff, abandoned by GW because of the whole hate of A.I. thing.
If you look at any official fluff written within the last five years, my guess is that you will not find a single mention of the word robot.
But since you are a new member, Egarb, and burning with eagerness and hope, I'll try to help out. While I don't see any 'robots' being used by the Imperium, I do accept the idea of 1) Pre-Imperium robots that have survived, somehow and 2) Imperial machines with machine spirits, that are similar to robots.
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 7:22:39 GMT -5
Post by Dazo on Sept 14, 2004 7:22:39 GMT -5
Curious, so who builds all those cyborgs then(servitors). Would I be wrong in thinking that these are the replacement for robots. Are cybernetics and robotics the same thing.
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 7:38:50 GMT -5
Post by malika on Sept 14, 2004 7:38:50 GMT -5
As far as I'm concerned, the Legio Cybernetica does not exist. It is old fluff, abandoned by GW because of the whole hate of A.I. thing. If you look at any official fluff written within the last five years, my guess is that you will not find a single mention of the word robot. But since you are a new member, Egarb, and burning with eagerness and hope, I'll try to help out. While I don't see any 'robots' being used by the Imperium, I do accept the idea of 1) Pre-Imperium robots that have survived, somehow and 2) Imperial machines with machine spirits, that are similar to robots. I agree with you that AI doesnt exist in the Imperium (well perhaps an escaped AI or a dormant one), but the robot could have a Machine Spirit or is remote controlled from some sort of command vehicle. I dont like the idea that the whole Legio Cybernetica has just been removed from the fluff, it can be altered a bit, but not totally removed as if it was never there, but that's just me talking.
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 7:52:47 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Sept 14, 2004 7:52:47 GMT -5
Curious, so who builds all those cyborgs then(servitors). Cyborgs is another word that doesn't appear in 40k fluff, so let's call servitors servitors Who builds servitors? The Adeptus Mechanicus, mostly. No. In many areas, they are replacements. But they are not robots, obviously. I recommend using www.dictionary.com when you're not sure about terms. If you look up 'robotic' and 'cybernetic', you'll see that they are not the same thing, which explains why there are two different words but the robot could have a Machine Spirit I'm pretty sure I said that already Yep. There is a mini-tank known as the Cyclops, I believe, which is loaded with explosives and remote controlled. But then, remote controls are expensive, and the Imperium isn't known to value human lives, so why build remote-controlled robots when you can build machines such as sentinels or those Ordo Hereticus walkers? Like I said, there is no trace of it in any new fluff. Not as much as a mention. It doesn't even appear on any of the diagrams that show the Titan Legions under the control of the Adeptus Mechanicus. In the old days, the Legio Cybernetica were right next to the Legio Titanica..
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 7:55:20 GMT -5
Post by rsljudd on Sept 14, 2004 7:55:20 GMT -5
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 8:01:29 GMT -5
Post by malika on Sept 14, 2004 8:01:29 GMT -5
They might be expensive, which is why they are used by the Adeptus Mechanicus and are not that common, they are not used as much as for example, the Leman Russ battle tank.
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 8:01:56 GMT -5
Post by Philip on Sept 14, 2004 8:01:56 GMT -5
The Imperium does not use robots in any way, shape or form: they have servitors instead.
‘Robotic’ implies some form of machine intelligence, even if it is just a smart computer program controlling a production line (though I think the Imperium has computers, they are not certainly not AI, and are pure ‘computers’.)
There is no AI in the Imperium.
If a machine requires actual ‘intelligence’ to function, a mind wiped reprogrammed organic brain will be used instead.
Perhaps a correct term would be OI instead of AI.
As a guess, a production line would be ‘computer controlled’ whereas an auto-pilot for an aircraft/ spacecraft would be OI (with complex integrated neuro-links to computers to crunch the numbers, but the decisions are made by the auto-pilot OI).
Hmm, perhaps it should be sOI for ‘servitor organic intelligence’ to differentiate it from normal human intelligence which would also be an OI.
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 8:05:37 GMT -5
Post by malika on Sept 14, 2004 8:05:37 GMT -5
A warhound Titan has the intelligence of a wolf and a Warlord Titan has one of a bear. But ok these things are Machine Spirits, but what excatly is a Machine Spirit?
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 8:29:44 GMT -5
Post by Philip on Sept 14, 2004 8:29:44 GMT -5
A warhound Titan has the intelligence of a wolf and a Warlord Titan has one of a bear. But ok these things are Machine Spirits, but what excatly is a Machine Spirit? As another guess: an sOI. It is most likely an sOI reprogrammed to think like a wolf/ bear but is totally controllable by the crew. I would imagine it would be a human mind, but with the character of a wolf (perhaps like native American beliefs?) rather than an actual wolf mind.
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Robots
Sept 14, 2004 9:24:10 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Sept 14, 2004 9:24:10 GMT -5
The Imperium does not use robots in any way, shape or form: they have servitors instead. Yes, precisely! The Imperium does have computers in the normal sense of the word (P.C.) and these are known as cogitators. Machines controlling production lines would be a very rare sight, in my opinion, though this is a matter of imagery. There is really no reason why cogitators with advanced programs can't control production lines (they don't need artificial intelligence to do it), but the Imperium has a great love for manpower, so servitors and lowly workers usually administer all machines. I agree, but this can only be justified by our interpretation of what a 'machine spirit' is. Lets keep abreviations such as this to a minimum. As Kage once said, if you use a lot of them, new people will have difficulties catching up, because they have to skim through the entire thread to find out what sOI, TAI and MSI is A warhound Titan has the intelligence of a wolf and a Warlord Titan has one of a bear. But ok these things are Machine Spirits, but what excatly is a Machine Spirit? Could you please back this up with a fluff-quote, Malika. I've only ever heard rumours about this, and not actually read it myself. As I understand it though, the Machine Spirits of Titans have been patterned after terran animals in some respects, they are not identical copies. The discussion of what a Machine Spirit is has been done before, both on the ASP forum and on Portent, I think. Unfortunately, I don't remember what conclusion either discussion arrived at, if any. To me, a Machine Spirit is just that... a machine with a soul. Ghost in the machine, I believe zholud or Philip (or was it Kage?) called it, though I don't know what that means. Anyway, the difference is that a Machine Spirit has a soul, a presence in the warp. It can be corrupted by chaos, as seen in Chaos land raiders and titans.
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