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Post by malika on Sept 1, 2004 10:22:50 GMT -5
Well...we could also use the word "Grot"
The Exodites dont have to be goody good guys, they can still be nasty and twisted in a way, they just are not Dark Eldar, since they have this weird relationship with Slaanesh.
Orks in isolation dont have a limited reproduction cycle, since they are a one sex spore creature. They die and will release many spores which cause it to multiply quite a lot.
Keeping Orks isolated would also mean they could develop technology, they have kinetic powers or something like that which could make everything work (that is why red Ork vehicles go faster, kinetic power)
I want the civilized humans to keep their knights in shiny armour thing, but not in the direction of the Empire or Brettonia in WFB. Something more Spanish or Italian influenced, but then with a touch of our own imagination of course.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 10:51:49 GMT -5
Rhymes with snot so lets not. They can be many things, cruel savages or honoured enemy, they are eldar, so we can play around with them lots of tribes/clans that sort of thing. I was thinking stoney mountainous regions or frozen tundra. Its not important i suppose If thats the best GW can do to explain how orks can have advanced tech then some one needs to be fired. French and german armour is out then. thats ok it was the italians that had some of the best heavy armour, I want english knight as well, and no arguments I would also like to see different sub cultures on different islands, it would give us more variation in armour and weapons
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Post by malika on Sept 1, 2004 10:55:54 GMT -5
You could do the English knight sort of thing, since there are more islands, but have them all be something like one nation, divided in provinces (islands). The Orks create something which looks good for them, then they can make it work with the kinetic powers, something in those lines, I think there is something about that in the Index Orkicus (a thread in the Orks section) I personally like the Eldar to be one faction together, however they can have different things, I dont know how the Eldar Gods are worshipped after the Fall (since most of them died), so are the other ones worshipped too? Or are they forgotten now?
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 11:04:24 GMT -5
I like the idea of english religious armies, crusaders and templars. We/they could have church armies and more individual Knight "chapters" as well as a national/state army. Its mainly the colours i like white and red very classy.
They are to primitive to maintain a super state across the planet, unless you were planning to have them all on the same continent, in a reletivly localised area
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Post by CELS on Sept 1, 2004 11:08:24 GMT -5
Well... I don't really like the idea of using a civilisation based on terran civilisation (such as ancient spain, ancient germany, etc), so.... I might be interested in developing a human empire on this world. Of course, it won't be based on any ancient cultures, but rather on Plato's ideal society. This empire would be compromised entirely of small cities, and its society would be heavily influenced by Plato's ideal caste system.
Basically, there are three castes; Workers/citizens, auxiliaries/warriors and guardians/elders. The nature of the two first castes is quite obvious, I suppose, and the third caste is actually quite similar to that of Jedi or Inquisitors.
I know I've bitched about people always using caste systems before, but that's because I see them being rather rare in the Imperium. Not abscent, but rare.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 11:19:39 GMT -5
As long as you don't mind comparisons with the Tau i have no problem with that. It could well be the basis for the island empire civilisation, but what about imagery, do you object to that being somewhat partially based on ancient europe, and persia.
Perhaps every one should take their own island and develop their own style/concept of how they should look but using CELS concept for social structure.
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Post by CELS on Sept 4, 2004 7:38:41 GMT -5
As long as you don't mind comparisons with the Tau i have no problem with that. Beyond the fact that both societies actually have castes, I don't really see too many similarities. I'd be interested to see people prove me wrong though, as it would be very amusing if the Tau were inspired by Plato's teachings. How do you mean, exactly? And this is a big, low-tech world. On low-tech worlds, there are typically very few continent-spanning empires, so there is likely to be quite a lot of different human empires / nations on this planet. OR... perhaps everyone should take their own territory (be it an island, a desert, or a coastline) and develop it into whatever they want. From a gruesome dictatorship to a peaceful trading nation, or even a homeless roaming people, everyone can just develop whatever idea they like, within certain limits. (Low-tech, fantasy feel) I don't want to force my idea on anyone, and I certainly don't want anyone to misrepresent my idea, so...
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Post by Dazo on Sept 4, 2004 8:41:32 GMT -5
I mean how they looked, their style of art, architecture, armour weapons...in general, not perhaps a direct carbon copy but similar I find myself terrified beyond rational thought, me and CELS seem to agree on somthing . Thats actually better than my suggestion, as long as the concepts are developed within the defined perameters of what is decided these societies will be like I would like to second that idea
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Post by malika on Sept 5, 2004 6:15:13 GMT -5
I can see what you mean with more human nations, but the thing is that the "big" one Dazo described could be sort of the most important one, sort of the main human "empire" while there are lots of other small human "nations" (they could be the size of a settlement but also of a few villages and a capitol)
However most human nations are not strong enough to survive against the Eldar and Orks (and hopefully other nasty creature of the lands).
The civiziled nation has survived because it was isolated and has only had relatively small naval attacks from their enemies, while the other human tribes/nations are on the mainland, surrounded by enemies who can easilt strike at them.
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Post by malika on Sept 6, 2004 8:04:50 GMT -5
I have a question...will this world have any relation to the 40k universe, or is it totally isolated?
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Post by CELS on Sept 6, 2004 8:16:16 GMT -5
I mean how they looked, their style of art, architecture, armour weapons...in general, not perhaps a direct carbon copy but similar Ah. The answer to that would be; possibly, but not necessarily. Consider the Elves in LotR. Inspired by real cultures, but also so original that they're far from a direct copy of one one culture. One of the portents to doomsday, isn't it? Horray I don't quite like this idea of constant warfare that eliminates everyone but the big players. As I understand it, Orks would be a rare sight on this world, because any large civilisation would develop high technology before long. So you want the humans to be a weak minority on this world? The idea is that it will be located in the Anargo sector, but totally isolated from the Imperial subsectors and any aliens. Perhaps it could be discovered by the Rogue Trader in 999.M41.
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Post by malika on Sept 6, 2004 8:46:36 GMT -5
The small players can do their things, however they have to live in heavily fortified communities, or are hiding in a safe place. Others might have bought off the local Ork or Eldar leaders.
Orks dont have to be rare, they just get whiped out every once in a while and then they come back. (the whole spore thing)
I dont want the humans to be the overly powerful dominating species on the planet, which is something we see in WFB (ok some humans are chaos, but still) and 40k. They have a shared if not a little bit of a minority position, I mean they are not weak, but they are not the rulers of this planet. Nobody is powerfull enough to have full control of this planet.
But ok...if it's totally isolated, how come it is possible for all these species to be there on one world? This will be a "fantasy-like" world, but something totally different than WFB, which means were are creating our own fantasy?
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Post by Dazo on Sept 6, 2004 10:06:47 GMT -5
I've always prefered the idea of humanity being a sleeping giant you awake at you peril, Not weak but disperate, if there was a cause that ended up uniting all the humans under one banner they would wipe the floor with everyone else.
Are we talking about the humans here. I wouldn't say constant warfare as in massed armies more like raids by the xenos, the less developed tribes are not in danger of being wiped out, its more that they live with constant danger of attack, if there was to be such a large scale attack the humans on the islands would come to their defense.
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Post by malika on Sept 6, 2004 10:21:25 GMT -5
What about some human faction who are rich and wealthy and just buy off the Eldar (perhaps by supplying them slaves, ores, you name it). These humans are rich and sort of lazy, they have a military force though, but that one is only strong enough to keep it's people under control or raid small settlements.
The elite of this society just live super decadent in the castles, trying to immitate the Eldar, maybe an immitation of Eldar art/culture/fashion/etc.
Many of the other human nations consider them to be traitors, but ok they cannot really do anything against them, since these guys bought themselves Eldar protection.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 6, 2004 11:50:03 GMT -5
They would need it. It is an interesting idea though, but how are they so rich, I would suggest that they are quite powerful because they trade with the eldar but are also quite a powerful nation, a southern nation, that doesn't need the eldar protection but can defend themselves, the evil empire, built on slavery and fear, mans greatest enemy has always been himself
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