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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 29, 2004 9:21:18 GMT -5
Really, seems kinda vanilla don't you think What has ice-scream or flavouring for cooking got to do with anything? (I say this only because I cannot remember what such "in" phrases like "cheesey", "beardy" and "vanilla" mean. Indeed, my limited and somewhat hazy memory suggests that 'vanilla' refers to conformance to a wargame codex?) Edit: Forgot the smilies!
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Post by Dazo on Aug 29, 2004 9:50:08 GMT -5
Well creativity is much like cooking, and vanilla in the way i use it means basic, simple, a nice flavour to be sure but nothing special, now variety adds a nice spice to things, which is what i was advocating, real flavour, full bodied, well rounded(not how i like my women mind) multi layered like the aroma of a fine wine ;D I basicaly think this world would benifit from as much as we can get away with while maintaining a distance from WFB and warcraft. 3 races are fine but they can't just be your bog standard fantasy charicature's of good evil and neutrality, well they can but you will need a twist of somthing....a bit of flavour
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Post by CELS on Aug 29, 2004 15:42:23 GMT -5
'Vanilla' is also about following the norm and being plain and unoriginal. And that's what I'd say about copying Warhammer and Warcraft to the extent you're talking about.
As for doing it better than Warhammer... With all due respect, I think not.
Sorry, I think it would be better to do something different from Warhammer / Warcraft, rather than just trying to do the same, but better.
And I wouldn't touch terms such as Hobgoblin or elves with a ten foot pole in 40k.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 29, 2004 16:33:27 GMT -5
Yes thats fair enough, but the same argument holds true for simply taking 3 40k races's slapping them on a planet and saying they don't have advanced technology, its already been done and thats not vanilla thats porrige. I really don't see why, we are all intelligent creative people. Maybe I should have said rivalled rather than better yeah well maybe not, I can see your point, trouble is its kinda hard not to use them. Eldar makes me think of high elves, tolkien and the blessed isles, so you can't say fantasy terms are not already in use..what can you do Well what would you want to see done, remember you can't use 40k either
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Post by CELS on Aug 30, 2004 8:02:40 GMT -5
Yes thats fair enough, but the same argument holds true for simply taking 3 40k races's slapping them on a planet and saying they don't have advanced technology, its already been done and thats not vanilla thats porrige. *grin* Actually, I seem to recall that someone planned to be more inventive and try to expand on the human and Eldar culture to create something that hasn't been seen in Warhammer, 40k, OR LotR... By all means. Of course, this might be more appropriate for a fantasy project, rather than the Anargo Sector.... They're in use, but they're somewhat limited. And later 40k stuff seems to be moving more and more away from Fantasy, and over to developing 40k as an individual sci-fi universe. Take the choice of Demiurg over Squats, for example. Something new! Original!
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Post by malika on Aug 30, 2004 10:08:19 GMT -5
Well...it has been seen in 40k, but the idea of an Old Skool Knightworld pops up in my mind, perhaps some Feral world from the Adeptus Mechanicus and then with Eldar Exodites there too who want their world totally for themselves and start attacking the humans, who are pretty primitive/fantasy.
I mean, you want something totally new, but how would that fit in the Anargo Sector?
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Post by CELS on Aug 30, 2004 13:32:57 GMT -5
Sounds a lot like the Knight Worlds, doesn't it? (See FluffBible if you don't know what I'm talking about)
Personally, I don't want any knight worlds for Proteus the way they're described in old fluff. They just don't make sense to me, and are an obvious way of just cramming in cool imagery from other universes (Battletech, first and foremost)
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Post by malika on Aug 30, 2004 15:39:38 GMT -5
That is why we could alter the concept. Perhaps not a knight world, but a world the Frost Bringers use to get their recruits. It used to be an Eldar Maiden World, with some very feral Exodites (Or Outcasts). There are a bunch of Orks there because of the spores they spread. However the Eldar hate these Orks (Biel Tann have something similar) and therefore go on huntings to kill off the Orks, but they keep coming back, however because they die all the time, they cant technologically advance.
The humans are primitive compared to the Space Marines, pretty medeval. Castles, armoured troops. Perhaps different looking than knights, maybe inspired by wallpainting found in their caves (pictures of Dark Age Of Technology armoured humans).
They dont have the technology, but try to build their stuff inspired by these wallpaintings.
The warlike Eldar savages try to cleanse the planet, they might be Exodite and not hedonistic decadents, but they are still very arrogant and bloodthirsty (really intense Khaine worshippers).
Perhaps there are more Eldar tribes, but personally I like the Eldar to only have one faction on this planet, but perhaps with a small religious cult (Khaine fanatics).
Let the Orks just be Orks, but they get hunted down every certain time by the Eldar and Humans. The Humans worship these "Armoured Gods" from the skies, hey maybe a better idea, these humans try to model their armour similar looking like Space Marine Power Armour, but more savage looking.
So these humans, being recruited by the Frost Bringers have to fight against these Xenos, I dont know yet how that could fit in the 40k universe, the Imperium with it's xenophobic policy this would be considered Heresy.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 31, 2004 2:19:59 GMT -5
You may have hit on the right solution their, recruiting from people that have first hand experience fighting xenos, but without the benefit of advanced tech. That would make them cleverer at killing them would it not. That might also explain why orks and DE are there, they were dliberatly placed on this world to give the humans somthing to fight. Hah lets see how the DE like being used as cannon fodder. Savage eldar, that would work just as well as dark eldar i suppose.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 31, 2004 4:33:54 GMT -5
Please also remember the interesting potentials of utilising the Polyhedron world... it doesn't have to be completely barbaric but could, quite readily, drawn inspiration from such things as Ringworld (Niven), Rama (Clarke), Eon (Bear), and numerous other high/low mish-mash novels...
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Post by Dazo on Aug 31, 2004 7:27:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't use the term barbaric to describe this world, clearly not technologically advanced, but still maintaining a fairly high standard of civility. Did you read the bit where i suggested the human inhabitants may be divided into two camps, one a high civilisation, with refined culture, ideals and practices and one more feral and warlike (like the ancient norse) as they are on the front line so to speak in the struggle against the xenos.
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Post by malika on Aug 31, 2004 7:47:45 GMT -5
What about instead of the Space Marines using these humans as recruits, have the Inquisition or Imperial Guard recruit these people as Inquisitorial assistants of Storm Troopers?
I wouldnt make the Eldar here Dark Eldar...I mean they might be "evil" and nasty, but not Dark Eldar, the whole soul leeching thing might become problematic here, unless they found another way to escape Slaanesh, but that would be a bit too much for this project I think.
We can keep the "two faction" human thing...as in one civilized nation, and the rest less civilized, not that united.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 31, 2004 9:06:33 GMT -5
Ok i've done a little map So the humans(more advanced ones) would inhabit the islands giving them a position of strenth from which to smite the godless xenos, i'm thinking the orks would have claimed parts of the larger continents, but conflict with the eldar(who could also be quite numerous) have kept their numbers down.
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Post by malika on Sept 1, 2004 9:59:30 GMT -5
The Eldar would not just keep their numbers low, they would simply whipe out all the Orks present each time. However since Orks reproduce when they die, they keep coming back.
The humans sort of do the same, well the civilized humans organize Crusades to the mainland to kill the Orks. The more "savage" humans most of the time try to build a safe home in their settlement and defend themselves from the Orks, but sometimes a brave leader rises up to attack the Orks or Eldar.
The Eldar are Exodites, however they have taken distance from any form of technology, hence making their lives even more difficult, so they stay focussed and not fall into temptation. They are intense worshippers of Khaine, the God of war. And go from their settlements to start wars against the filthy Mon Keigh that also inhabit the planet.
I know that Dazo is not too fond of giving everybody ships (naval), but I would really like to see that, but of course give these humans naval supremacy, and have the Orks mainly as a out of control pirate force.
Im not too sure how we are going to do the Goblin thing...I would like to see them as a seperate faction, but with the whole Ork breeding it will be hard, perhaps something in the lines of Gretchin seperatists, similar to the Grots in GorkaMorka.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 10:11:55 GMT -5
I don't mind exodite raiders and ork pirates having ships, just dark eldar, but they arn't present any more. I would like to see some kind of orky nation some where perhaps in an isolated region that limits their reproductive cycle.
I like the direction we are taking the humans but maybe we might have to drop the seperate goblin kingdom, if we can't use the word goblin lets forget it cos I can't stand gretchin(what is with that, sounds more like a blonde german shepperdess)
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