|
Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 25, 2004 20:44:11 GMT -5
9,27,23 - M-V - A5669DF-5 N Hi 614 Im A20 Medium world (5), standard atmosphere (6), wet world (60%), billions of citizens (9), religious dictatorship (D), Extreme law, all facets of daily life rigidly controlled (F), tech level 5, non-space faring aliens, possibly alien protectorate (A), low resource value (2), no export
This is the world as it stands now: I'd like to change a few things to fit my world of Altarra:
9,27,23 - M-V - A5669DF-5 N Hi 614 Im A20 Medium world (5), standard atmosphere (6), wet world (60%), billions of citizens (9), representitive democracy (Only veterans participate)(4), Moderate law, concealed firearms prohibited (5), tech level 5, **I can't find what this means!** non-space faring aliens, possibly alien protectorate (A), **Perhaps these aliens where exterminated** low resource value (2), no export **good, as Altarra's main export is well-trained and well-equiped (hopefully by the Proteus forgeworld) soldiers.
CELS, can you interpret the statistics I missed?
-Dinoman
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Jan 26, 2004 7:48:33 GMT -5
Well, I'm not sure exactly what tech level 5 means. It's all part of one of Kage's complicated systems. For comparison though, check out Minister's world Dorvastor in the Dorvastor subsector. That was tech level 6, and could be compared to a WW2 level of technology, IIRC.
As for the aliens, these are supposed to be an intelligent alien race, who have not yet begun space travel. We've already discussed the possibilities for this alien race on the forum, but we didn't really decide on anything. If you can think of an interesting possibility for keeping these aliens alive, I'm all ears. Among the things that have been suggested, is that they are an aquatic race, or that they have some kind of stealth technology, or that this used to be an ork world... they might even be living under the surface of the planet. If you can think of a cool idea for these aliens, let's hear it. If not, I guess we're left with extermination.
I see that you've changed the government type and level of law, which is fair enough, since you have a pretty comprehensive concept in mind, which doesn't fit with the statistics given here.
So, basically, we have a civilised world with an advanced eco-system, probably similar to the Terran eco-system, and probably capable of supporting its own population without much import. It pays its tithes in form of Imperial Guard regiments, and has a very strong PDF force, because of its long military history. The planet is governed by a representative democracy, with a council of 100 members. It's tech level remains to be decided upon, I guess. When we've figured out the tech level, I suppose you're ready to sink your fangs into the legendary guide and start shaping the planet.
|
|
|
Post by Minister on Jan 26, 2004 8:50:23 GMT -5
Tech level five places it around the industrial revolution to the end of the 19th century, if memory serves.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Jan 26, 2004 9:05:08 GMT -5
Minister, if you have a list with the estimates of the various tech levels, I'm sure that would fit in nicely in the world creation forum!
|
|
|
Post by Minister on Jan 26, 2004 9:36:44 GMT -5
Somewhere I do have one. I shall go and look.
|
|
|
Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 26, 2004 19:39:52 GMT -5
Minister: Thanks for posting the Tech Levels. Helped out a bunch.
CELS: In making Altarra's stats using the guide, I've found two things I'd like to change. A) The population generated was in the Billions, and that seems really high for my concept. I've tried to justify having them all live in cities, but how would a bunch of city-dwellers know anything about the outdoors and fieldcraft? I'd like to drop the population to somewhere around 60 million. B) Altarra is at tech level 5. That is fine for those rustic country folks that form the backbone of the society, but why not allow the folks in the city access to level 6 tech (Cars and Trucks).
Other small points: Altarra imports it's military tech from Proteus, right? And Proteus makes Valkyrie and Vulture aircraft, right? Just making sure.
-Dinoman
-Thanks
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jan 26, 2004 20:27:52 GMT -5
I can see no problems with the UWP alterations since they are social in nature (government, law, etc.). These are the statistics that are to be used as guidelines to prevent the standardised cloning of GW worlds (which they themselves clone amongst themselves). However, the Population-related Details section of the Guide should still be generated to offer potentially interesting ideas to flesh out your culture. Shame that you didn't go for a capital world, but there we go... Kage(Edit - Removed the stupid point that was actually covered in the original post!)
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Jan 26, 2004 21:04:23 GMT -5
Kage, he did propose to work on another world in the capital subsector. Salina, I think. Cheer up ;D CELS: In making Altarra's stats using the guide, I've found two things I'd like to change. A) The population generated was in the Billions, and that seems really high for my concept. I've tried to justify having them all live in cities, but how would a bunch of city-dwellers know anything about the outdoors and fieldcraft? I'd like to drop the population to somewhere around 60 million. 60 million? Well... that's pretty low, isn't it? I mean, this world isn't that much smaller than Earth, and has more land than Earth... Still, it's your call, but I think it sounds very strange. Weren't there a billion people on Earth around year 0? It was many hundreds of millions, anyway. My point is just that there wouldn't be too many large cities on this world, and I know that's what you wanted, but this is kinda extreme. B) Altarra is at tech level 5. That is fine for those rustic country folks that form the backbone of the society, but why not allow the folks in the city access to level 6 tech (Cars and Trucks). No problem. You could increase it even more, but not too much, I suppose, since that would create a sort of distance between the classes on the planet which I'm not sure you would appreciate. Other small points: Altarra imports it's military tech from Proteus, right? And Proteus makes Valkyrie and Vulture aircraft, right? Just making sure. Actually, heretic's world will be producing Valkyrie and Vulture aircraft. I'm not sure what Proteus will be producing, exactly. For now, the only things on the list are star ships, machine spirits, advanced plasma weapons and generators, and all the stuff that obviously belongs to a forge world. Most things on Altarra would most likely come from factory worlds in the Proteus subsector and Anargo sector, considering its low tech level. There would probably be some AM citadels on Altarra though, to distribute technology and maybe recruit tech priests (and servitors? ), so Altarra would still have strong ties to Proteus.
|
|
|
Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 26, 2004 21:07:31 GMT -5
Kage and CELS:
It seems we got started on the wrong foot, Kage. I'm sorry if I offended you for making critical remarks about how the project was set up. I'll be happy to work on a world in the Capital Subsector soon.
Some MORE things:
1) Citizens only become such AFTER they have completed their term of service or death (whichever comes first). 2) I still have not made myself clear on the government structure. Each city/region has a legislature of 100 Citizens, a Governor, and some Judicial element elected by Citizens. On the planetay level, each city (of a substantial size, there are 58 of 'em) sends a SINGLE representitive to the planetary legislature (for a grand total of 58 representitives), a planetaty governor, and the judicial court. 3) Having 6 billion people on a planet smaller than Earth, with supposedly wide areas of wilderness is impractical. I envisioned the Altarrans as a enviromentally friendly people spread out across the world. Hive cities with billions of people doesn't sound very enviromentally friendly to me. 4) If we really need to keep the billions of inhabitants figure, I suppose I can go against 40k background and make hive cities that hold most of the population, allowing the rest of the planet undisturbed and unmolested. This is difficult to envision billions of people building "green" hive cities with only tech level 5. 5) On that native alien race: I'm toying with the idea of making them an Arboreal race, living happily in the jungle canopy.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Jan 26, 2004 21:22:57 GMT -5
1) Citizens only become such AFTER they have completed their term of service or death (whichever comes first). Or death? Very dramatic, but I assume this doesn't have any practical significance... 2) I still have not made myself clear on the government structure. Each city/region has a legislature of 100 Citizens, a Governor, and some Judicial element elected by Citizens. On the planetay level, each city (of a substantial size, there are 58 of 'em) sends a SINGLE representitive to the planetary legislature (for a grand total of 58 representitives), a planetaty governor, and the judicial court. You have made yourself very clear on this point. Twice. It's just that Kage only has time to check the forum late at night, after a looong day of work, which obviously has its effects ;D 3) Having 6 billion people on a planet smaller than Earth, with supposedly wide areas of wilderness is impractical. I envisioned the Altarrans as a enviromentally friendly people spread out across the world. Hive cities with billions of people doesn't sound very enviromentally friendly to me. I wasn't proposing 6 billion. More like 'hundreds of millions'. Maybe 200 million. But it's your choice... *mutters* 4) If we really need to keep the billions of inhabitants figure, I suppose I can go against 40k background and make hive cities that hold most of the population, allowing the rest of the planet undisturbed and unmolested. This is difficult to envision billions of people building "green" hive cities with only tech level 5. No point in that, and I'm not trying to stick to the statistics given by the guide. I'm just pointing out that a population of 60 million spread across an entire planet will be spread pretty thin, I think. 5) On that native alien race: I'm toying with the idea of making them an Arboreal race, living happily in the jungle canopy. Cool. Bear in mind though, that people in 40k don't like aliens. How many races can you think of that coexist peacefully with humans in 40k? And on the same planet? The general idea seems to be that you kill the alien, then worry about whether it would pose a threat afterwards. If you disagree with my idea of 40k xenophobia, or have an idea on how the aliens would exist on this planet despite the xenophobia, I'm all ears
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jan 26, 2004 21:29:35 GMT -5
You have made yourself very clear on this point. Twice. It's just that Kage only has time to check the forum late at night, after a looong day of work, which obviously has its effects ;D <whimper> This is most definitely true. After not finishing work until 2:30am yesterday morning) and up at 7am for more work until going to some meetings, then a different type of work until 6pm, and then teaching a martial arts club for two hours... And, well, it;s 2:30am again and I'm trying to respond here... You will note, however, that I edited the post above once I re-read the thread (i.e. just a few minutes ago) and removed the stupid comment... After all, the government system that is being suggested is ridiculously simple in conception (application in the story is far, far more interesting which is why I quite like it)... Ack! And I've just realised something that I read from the first post when I (skim) re-read the thread again. Altarra's major export is in soldiers. Erm... This is a bit dubious since the tithe does not necessarily count as the export. Of course, if you're suggesting that there is a large mercenary export then I'm sure that people are going to get twitchy! Kage
|
|
|
Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 26, 2004 21:35:52 GMT -5
Maybe those aliens are the long lost Squats! j/k
Anyway, I think that 60 million is a much more reasonable number. Keep in mind that if only 10% of the population joins the military, that is still 6 million soldiers, enough for at least 1,000 regiments of 6,000! Not that there would be that many, except in the case of extreme emergency. Also, Altarra soldiers spend 4 years in training, and their officers have all seen combat.
If I have that much freedom on tech level, I might consider somewhere between 6 and 7.
Heretic's world makes Air Cav. Vehicles? Excellent. (Dinoman starts to play Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" on iTunes)
I should have a complete outline up soon.
-Dinoman
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jan 26, 2004 21:45:13 GMT -5
Remembering, of course, that the 'export' of troops is going to be severely curtailed... But I guess it just depends on what you mean be 'export' and which troops you're talking about! Oh, and with regard to TL, check out the additional information here: Kage
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Jan 27, 2004 7:49:28 GMT -5
Anyway, I think that 60 million is a much more reasonable number. Keep in mind that if only 10% of the population joins the military, that is still 6 million soldiers, enough for at least 1,000 regiments of 6,000! Well, yes. But even if 10% of the population joins the military, that doesn't mean they'd all be in the fighting forces. There's logistics, staff, etc. Also, note that it would not be uncommon for Imperial worlds to have a PDF (planetary defence force) of several million soldiers. On the contrary. And even if this planet did raise 1,000 regiments, only some of these would be recruited for the Imperial Guard... Not that there would be that many, except in the case of extreme emergency. Also, Altarra soldiers spend 4 years in training, and their officers have all seen combat. Even the officers in the PDF? Hm. How would that work, I wonder... You might imagine that Altarra would found Imperial Guard regiments, and then use the veteran sergeants from these Altarran regiments as officers in the Altarran PDF. However, once a PDF regiment is recruited into the Imperial Guard, they can't just go home, I think. They have to earn it. Maybe someone else with more knowledge of the Guard would be more helpful If I have that much freedom on tech level, I might consider somewhere between 6 and 7. No problem! Heretic's world makes Air Cav. Vehicles? Excellent. (Dinoman starts to play Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" on iTunes) I should have a complete outline up soon. *grins* Looking forward to it!
|
|
|
Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 27, 2004 8:39:32 GMT -5
1) The munititorium (sp) provides almost all logistics and support personel. Staff officers are provided by the regiments themselves, typcially from the most experienced regiments. Codex: Imperial Guard (the new one) and the Gaunt's Ghosts books provides this info.
2) Typcially, a IG regiment fights for about 10 years or until it is destroyed. After 10 years, it can be retired or stationed on a newly conquered world to call their own. Altarra, because of its low population (see why I needed it in the millions?) is a favorite site to retire these regiments. Not only does it provide a suitable reward for the troops, but their experience and soldeir genetic material gets recycled into a society whose main export is, you guessed it: TROOPERS!
3) In First and Only, little baby Guant is visited by his Uncle (an officer in the IG), and he is accustomed to seeing his father every once and a while. Therefore, I assume that it is not to move about the Warhammer 40k Galaxy. So it is probably not to hard to get some veterans from Altarran Regiments stationed on nearby worlds back to Altarra for OCS or the Academy in the Capital subsector. Of course, if the regiment is stationed on the other side of the galaxy, I doubt they would ever see home again.
-Dinoman
|
|