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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 30, 2004 21:54:14 GMT -5
Happy? I used quotes. That makes more sense. And descendants of immigrant citizens (the sons of retired Guardsmen) are civilian untill they retire from either Guard or PDF, right? Yep, except active soldiers are neither Civilians nor Citizens. What makes it special? Only Citizens wear them Actaully, they are gold with some shiney bobbles in them. (think a superbowl champion's ring) Would there be any daily life differences between citizens and civilians that would tempt civilians to impersonate citizens? Are the laws identical for the two 'classes', with the only difference being voting and getting elected? You got it. No legal or social difference between the two classes except the voting status and the ring. In fact, most Civilians are better of in terms of posessions and wealth. Electives? Are these like different subjects or classes? More like merit badges in boy scouting. I based the education system on my scouting and decathlon experiences. Yes, that sounds appropriate. When you start writing a more detailed description of the Altarran culture, I suggest that you write a little something about how Altarrans are especially superstitious or religious because of all the veteran Guardsmen. I'll work on it. Any specific ideas? Oh yeah, I forgot about that! I'm really looking forward to reading about the mounted regiment, since I'm going to start one myself, on another world in Anargo. No problem. I'm thinking of organizingit like the Air Cav. regiment, only mounted on horses. Anyway, I still suggest that you lower the level of the planet's equipment. I really don't see why they should have such advanced equipment. Meltaguns, plasmaguns and lascannons are out, autocannons and missile launchers are in. Lasguns are fairly low tech, so I won't object to those, even if autoguns would be pretty cool. I would also be careful with giving the rangers any advanced tech, like auspex', scanners, targeters, etc. Each platoon only has one plasma gun, one melta gun, and one lascannon. And those are only in the Air Cav. Tithed and PDF regiments. Rough Rider and the soldiers manning the defense wall have to make do with autocannons and missile launchers. About the teachers all being Citizens... You have my blessing, but... this means a whole lot of citizens will have to be teachers. I can imagine that not all veteran soldiers would make excellent teachers, since they'd just be a bunch of hard-asses. Of course, if it was their duty, it might be different. Quite perceptive. Many Citizens choose to become teachers because they view it as the best way to serve the Imperium. Since Altarra's most valuable resource is its people and especially children. Of course, the bitter and "hard-asses" typically aren't allowed to teach, even if they wanted to, and move into the wilderness to live by themselves. Btw, are there any sex differences on Altarra? Are women recruited into the Guard and PDF? Absolutely no distinction is made. The physical requirements are the same for both sexes. The same is true in Civilian life. Sexism is almost non-existant on Altarra. -Dinoman
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Post by CELS on Jan 31, 2004 5:40:50 GMT -5
Hey, don't give me that tone! Zholud's the one being a pain ;D Only Citizens wear them Actaully, they are gold with some shiney bobbles in them. (think a superbowl champion's ring) Fair enough. I was just thinking that if they gave you a discount at the local fast-food chain, Civilians might go around with replicas. You got it. No legal or social difference between the two classes except the voting status and the ring. In fact, most Civilians are better of in terms of posessions and wealth. How so? I don't see how this would appeal to Guardsmen from around the sector... More like merit badges in boy scouting. I based the education system on my scouting and decathlon experiences. Aah! Cool! I'll work on it. Any specific ideas? Well... they might have a lot of special customs and traditions. You know, like how some people have a horse shoe on the door of their house or something, for good luck. Superstitious stuff like that. I guess it would be pretty silly if you exaggerated this, but I think it would be kinda cool if you just made a quick mention of it. No problem. I'm thinking of organizingit like the Air Cav. regiment, only mounted on horses. I don't know how the Air cav is organized, but I'm sure I will find out in good time Each platoon only has one plasma gun, one melta gun, and one lascannon. And those are only in the Air Cav. Tithed and PDF regiments. Rough Rider and the soldiers manning the defense wall have to make do with autocannons and missile launchers. Ok. Well, I guess they could always buy the high tech weaponry from other factory worlds or Proteus, but I imagine that it would be ridiculously expensive to equip large portions of the PDF with this. Other worlds would consider it a waste, but I guess your world is special in this regard, because of its strong military traditions. And if you're worried about the Imperial Guard regiments drawn from Altarran rangers, that these won't have high-tech weaponry, then rest assured that these are given this equipment on their induction. Quite perceptive. Many Citizens choose to become teachers because they view it as the best way to serve the Imperium. Since Altarra's most valuable resource is its people and especially children. Of course, the bitter and "hard-asses" typically aren't allowed to teach, even if they wanted to, and move into the wilderness to live by themselves. Sounds good to me. Absolutely no distinction is made. The physical requirements are the same for both sexes. The same is true in Civilian life. Sexism is almost non-existant on Altarra. Hmm, very different from most other worlds in the Imperium, I imagine. You should make a special note of this, IMO.
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Post by zholud on Jan 31, 2004 6:03:07 GMT -5
OK, thanks for using quotes, I guess not only me but everyone is jolly now ;D As to the world and making fine-tuning of it: - On the number of citizen. Try to set up the numbers and see what happens. I don’t say that 3 or 8 or any other percentage is good/bed per se, but I just suggest to made these numbers, so you do not run into disappearances. Lets see: total population 62 mlns. On PDF including orbital defence 0.6 mln. In IG on any given period of time around 0.5-1.5 mln, right? Annual inflow of veterans ... mlns. Average life expectancy after retirement ... years. Average percentage of returned solders ... percent. Make numbers and estimate percentage of citizens from it. At least this would be my way.
- On teachers. I understand your intention to have privileges to Citizens, but my guess that many of them would lack interests in specific non-military subjects, so limit, IMHO, veteran teachers to martial disciplines...
- On sexes and their equality. I am not sexist/chauvinist but there are actions suited for one gender more than for other, especially in military. For the proof of it in real life look up the sport results in similar disciplines for men and women, e.g. sprint, marathon, athletics. In different actions one or another gender has advantage, so just think more about flavour of creating ‘sneaky’ women infiltrators or heavy weapon men teams instead of stating their full equality. And note one important detail – you need children on the planet, thus you have to keep your women here, not on the battlefield.
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Post by CELS on Jan 31, 2004 7:08:51 GMT -5
Damn sexist...! As a wise man once pointed out a long time ago, women might be physically weaker than men overall. Still, women have individual differences just like men, and some women might be better at physical activities than stuff like child-care, teaching or nursing. This doesn't mean that such women are as physically fit as men, but it means that it would be a waste of their resources to make these women nurses and teachers. I mean, take your typically butch lesbian rugby player. Do you consider it logical to make her a nurse, teacher or accountant, simply she's not as physically fit as the average man? As for child-care- a child isn't really dependant on being raised by its mother (and especially not birth mother) for a long time. So if women in the PDF are made pregnant, give them one year off duty, then hand the children over to relatives or the state. The schola progenium gets tons of kids that are only 3-5 years old, no? These turn out fine! Well, sorta Chauvinist bastard....!
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Post by zholud on Jan 31, 2004 9:21:22 GMT -5
Yep, finally you know my true name ;D more over, seems the whole our board are latent sexists (as well as probably ageists, and racists) as we have no women abroad… and taking that this board collects the elite of humanity everyone else is inferior and should know his/her place! ;D back to the point. My intention was to show that if you have high looses due to general meat shield tactics of the IG and a world specially ‘tooled up’ to produce solders they have to have 3+ children per women, so 5+ years she is off-duty. This gives unfair comparative advantage to men in IG and PDF and decreases the percent of female citizens. And Schola Progenium gets even infants I assume. It is said that they are orphans of Imperial servants, but I assume that living ones also may ‘push’ their off-spring there.
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 31, 2004 10:16:02 GMT -5
Yep, finally you know my true name ;D more over, seems the whole our board are latent sexists (as well as probably ageists, and racists) as we have no women abroad… and taking that this board collects the elite of humanity everyone else is inferior and should know his/her place! ;D back to the point. My intention was to show that if you have high looses due to general meat shield tactics of the IG and a world specially ‘tooled up’ to produce solders they have to have 3+ children per women, so 5+ years she is off-duty. This gives unfair comparative advantage to men in IG and PDF and decreases the percent of female citizens. And Schola Progenium gets even infants I assume. It is said that they are orphans of Imperial servants, but I assume that living ones also may ‘push’ their off-spring there. I understand the concern about not having enough women to produce a steady population. But just because someone's parents didn't join the military doesn't mean they can't sign up. Plus, the women soldiers who retire to Altarra are still (mostly) of child bearing age (<40 years old.) I see no problem with treating male and female soldiers the same. I don't want to get into a women in combat debate, but the thinking is that if a woman can do the job as well as a man, there is no reason to discriminate against her. PS: Not all Imperial Guard commanders use "Meat Shield" tactics.
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Post by CELS on Jan 31, 2004 10:35:46 GMT -5
Fair enough. I approve of the idea anyway, and unless Kage starts making trouble, it's up to Dinoman. This world might not see any population booms in the near future, but with there only being 60 million citizens on a planet almost the size of earth (with probably more land), this wouldn't be much of a problem anyways.
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Post by zholud on Jan 31, 2004 10:37:46 GMT -5
I understand the concern about not having enough women to produce a steady population. But just because someone's parents didn't join the military doesn't mean they can't sign up. Plus, the women soldiers who retire to Altarra are still (mostly) of child bearing age (<40 years old.) But three children per women is hard for 40 y.o. this actually depends on a country – in less developed the 25 y.o. considered old for the first child, while in ‘Western world’ it seems quite and young mother. As I said, it’s your planet, I only try to point things I think as vague. if a woman can do the job as well as a man, there is no reason to discriminate against her. More than 100% agreed PS: Not all Imperial Guard commanders use "Meat Shield" tactics. I only point to the fact that most IG regiments are less that ½ of original number before the ‘retirement’ thus they have quite heavy casualties. This does not mean that they use horde attacks, etc.
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 31, 2004 10:43:31 GMT -5
But three children per women is hard for 40 y.o. this actually depends on a country – in less developed the 25 y.o. considered old for the first child, while in ‘Western world’ it seems quite and young mother. As I said, it’s your planet, I only try to point things I think as vague. Just because mommy didn't fight in the big space war doesn't mean that the kiddies can't. Even if every woman who retired on Altarra had no children, there should still be enough produced by the other 90% of the Civilian population. Citizen status doesn't transfer to offspring. I only point to the fact that most IG regiments are less that ½ of original number before the ‘retirement’ thus they have quite heavy casualties. This does not mean that they use horde attacks, etc. Yeah, but that is after an average of 10 years in combat. Horde attacks are for tyranids and chaos. -Dinoman
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 31, 2004 18:58:45 GMT -5
There is little that I can contribute at this point other than, once again, my concern with regards to the proposed period of service of the Guard... I apologise since I only had the time to skim-read and this once again cropped up on that skim... Kage
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Feb 8, 2004 19:59:43 GMT -5
Deleted in view of new changes.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Apr 10, 2004 18:23:58 GMT -5
People must serve in the military before becoming citizens? Has someone been watching/reading Starship Troopers here?
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