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Post by CELS on May 14, 2004 6:20:38 GMT -5
Ugh... this is why I feel the Space Marine threads should be put on hold till Kage and Sikkukkut have worked out the Index Astartes article. We don't know what theme they have exactly, and we don't know their background. I really think we should leave this for a little while. To use a Warhammer 40,000 analogy, this is a lot like planning an army before buying the codex
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Post by Sikkukkut on May 14, 2004 7:59:45 GMT -5
While there are some Inuit elements and parallels with the Frost Bringers, the name of their homeworld being the most obvious one, what I'm trying to do with them at the moment is work off the circumstances of their founding and early campaigns, plus the influences of the personal beliefs and religious convictions of their highly charismatic first two Chapter Masters, to give them a unique culture of their own.
That's one reason they took a while to develop: I was trying to work through the formative influences of their culture and psyche (and work backwards from the culture I wanted to see what sort of formative influences might lead to it ;D ), and I wanted them to be defined enough to lead to a directed debate on the forum when the thing eventually goes up. And I was also vain enough to want to present a rounded and compelling account of how a Chapter has developed into what it has. Which is more time-consuming, but I think rather more rewarding for the Project in the long run, than boiling the whole thing down to whether to have Space Vikings or Space Eskimos.
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Post by zholud on May 14, 2004 10:04:31 GMT -5
circumstances of their founding and early campaigns, plus the influences of the personal beliefs and religious convictions of their highly charismatic first two Chapter Masters, to give them a unique culture of their own. That's one reason they took a while to develop: I was trying to work through the formative influences of their culture and psyche (and work backwards from the culture I wanted to see what sort of formative influences might lead to it ;D. My mouth is watered just reading these lines. Seems you decided to make IA away better than usual GW stuff, I don’t even start on fun made fluff that is (sadly but true) often lacks details, except giving usual ’They came in dire circumstances and beat shit out of (insert race/group here)’I hope that Kage will hear my plead and set APPROVED on your draft.
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Post by malika on May 16, 2004 10:28:54 GMT -5
Maybe the Sons of Thor are a unit in that chapter. Some sort of bodyguard unit.
Who was the Frost Bringers' first Chapter Master? Maybe call him Thor, and that these units were like his bodyguard, but now they are a bodyguard of the company captains?
Kinda like the honour guard sort of thing?
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Post by Seamus on May 16, 2004 15:24:22 GMT -5
do Vikings wear robes? I got this thing with robes... and I dont really want the SoT to end up looking like the Space Wolves
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Post by Kage2020 on May 17, 2004 6:31:30 GMT -5
The imagery on the adeptus astartes is somewhat inconsistent with regards to the wearing of 'robes'. I'm afraid I'm "Old School" on this one and work on the principle that the Marines actually do take off their armour, regardless of how some people might argue the situation. I think it is ridiculous to even argue that they wear this stuff all the time! Thus, yes, for me Marines do wear robes! And Shamus. If you could, please make sure that your posts are, on average, greater than one or two lines. Otherwise you'll end up with the "spammer" title similar to malika (who is actually doing much better and may return to the ranks of the, well, ranked shortly). Kage
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Post by Lordof on May 17, 2004 7:02:19 GMT -5
Well it doesn't necessarilly have to be robes that the marine wear.
I mean a Space wolf in a robe doesn't really work as general imagery goes.
So i think what they would wear when out of uniform would depend entirely upon how religious the chapter is and from what sort of culture they are selected.
So you could have marines wearing leathers and padded vests instead of robes or even combat fatigues.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 17, 2004 7:35:38 GMT -5
As I said, I'm "Old School" from a time when they were 'warrior monks' in the Teutonic Image, rather than the modern approach. I always felt that was more appropriate for some reason. Although the "individual warrior orders" of the modern 'fluff' also does have it's appeal... as well as the weaker approach which allows the 'every Chapter to whatever it wants' approach... The Frostbringers will most definitely be the robe-wearing lot if I have my way... Kage
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Post by malika on May 17, 2004 8:27:35 GMT -5
I think the whole robe thing might be different for each Chapter. In some chapters Marines might wear robes, while in others they would wear civilian clothes, or runaround naked in nothing but a loin cloth Of course they take off their armour. (only Chaos Space Marines might keep them on forever and then again, it wont be all of them who do that) But I think the Codex chapters would wear robes, they follow the traditions, tactics and organisation exactly the way Roboute Guilliman wanted it. But the non-Codex chapters could be very different.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 17, 2004 19:33:53 GMT -5
I too have wondered exactly what Marines do when they're not wearing power armor. Robes would make the most sense, but who knows?
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Post by Kage2020 on May 17, 2004 19:54:28 GMT -5
To get back to a related point, however... Shamus: why don't you PM Sikkukkut to see if he is willing to incorporate the "Sons of Thor" as a parf of the Frostbringers? Otherwise we're back to the fact that they are a separate Chapter which are 'visiting'? Presuming, of course, that the 'fluff' is accepted into the 'official' ASP 'fluff'... Until I get a PM from Sikkukkut suggesting that this is a viable potential then I shall, for the moment, consider this thread closed. I'll not close it unless forced, however! Kage
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Post by Destecado on May 18, 2004 14:00:49 GMT -5
Before we go including more things into the as yet unseen fluff for the Frost Bringers can we please see at least a working copy of the Index Astartes. I find it rather disconcerting that the entire formation of the chapter is being done pretty much with no input from other members of this forum.
I am not questioning Sikkukkut's ability, but the chapter really needs to be put up for review by all members. My hope is that it will help to put this conversation back onto a constructive path.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 18, 2004 16:53:23 GMT -5
I started reading it the other night... I shall send it back and suggest, rather strongly, that it gets 'published' asap. Kage
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Post by Seamus on May 30, 2004 8:21:11 GMT -5
well if the SoT might become a special company... what say you to this "history" ? The Sons of Thor were founded just prior to the Age of Apostasy, a time of civil war and bloodshed that almost saw the Imperium destroyed. It was a dark time for the Imperium when worlds were destroyed on the whims of the insane Lord Vandire. Perhaps these days of ill omen cursed the founding of the Sons of Thor from the beginning or perhaps it was the debased and ritualised medical practices of the Magos Biologis chirurgeons. Whatever the reason it did not take long before the flaw inherent in their gene-seed to become apparent. One of the many zygotes neophytes are implanted with is the Ossmodula. This small organ has a complex function within the body of a Space Marine. It monitors and secretes hormones affecting epiphiseal fusion and ossification of the skeleton while at the same time, engineered hormones encourage the forming bones to absorb ceramic based chemicals administered in the Marine's diet. Two years following implantation, the long-bones will have strengthened considerably and there will have been a general increase in the size of the recipient's skeleton. Extreme ossification of the chest cavity caused by growth of ribs forming a solid mass of inter-laced bone plates provides a Space Marine with an armoured layer to protect his secondary heart and lungs. But the Ossmodula zygote of the Sons of Thor's functions in an abnormal way causing the growth of bony crests on the head, and blade-like protuberances from the forearm and elbow. Like the Death Company of the Blood Angels, warriors inflicted with such abnormal developments are formed into a separate fighting unit. Known as the merkismathr, they sharpen these additional protrusions to a killing edge, and sheath them in adamantium to turn them into deadly close combat weapons. This strains the tolerance of the Inquisition and their are many recorded instances of other Space Marine Chapters (notably the Dark Angels and Marines Malevolent) refusing to fight alongside them. It is even rumoured that the Sons of Thor Apothecaries deliberately encourage such growths, even going so far as to knowingly implant aberrant zygotes into some initiates. This is exceptionally dangerous, and the practice is forbidden by Imperial edict. But old traditions die hard as the ferocity of the Sons of Thor is much valued by the Chapter Masters. Each Chapter is required to send 5% of its genetic material to the Adeptus Mechanicus on Mars. This 'tithe' serves two purposes, enabling the Adeptus Mechanicus to monitor the health of each Marine Chapter and store gene-seed with a view to founding new Chapters. The Adeptus Mechanicus has on several occasions threatened the Sons of Thor with military action unless it complies with this decree and even when the Chapter has submitted genetic data, its veracity has often been considered suspect as each sample provided has passed the most stringent genetic purity checks without fail. Without being able to prove anything, many Adepts believe that the Sons of Thor submit genetic material culled from other sources. How this can be possible is unknown and the Adeptus Mechanicus is eager to fully investigate the medical practices within the Sons of Thor. Whew!
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Post by CELS on May 30, 2004 8:37:23 GMT -5
It's an interesting idea for a Chapter to hide its genetic flaw from the Adeptus Mechanicus like this, I must say. However, you're suggesting this story for a special company of the Frost Bringers, and I find that very unlikely for a single company of the Frost Bringers to develop such a mutation, or even for the Frost Bringers to concentrate all mutated Space Marines in a single company, making it much easier for others to find out about the flaw.
Other than that, the mutation is exactly the same as the Black Dragon space marine chapter, I believe. They fought in the third war for Armageddon, I think.
So... whilst a very interesting concept, if very, very similar to the Black Dragons, I wouldn't like to see it for the Frost Bringers or even a single company of the Frost Bringers. And we're not having two seperate Chapters in the Anargo sector.
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