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Post by Minister on Apr 8, 2004 18:19:13 GMT -5
I do remember the Oficio of Internal Prosecution somewhere...
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Post by Tynesh on Apr 9, 2004 11:33:53 GMT -5
So all =][= are under nominal command of an Ordo Master, they file reports on operations, organise larger cells perhaps and deal out punishments for minor infractions.
All =][= are attached to the Ordos Anargo, and rarely have business outside the sector, unless a galaxy-wide, timeline destroying, crazy cult is uncovered.
On the subject of watching the watchers...
...any =][= can call Extremis Diabolus on another =][=. They would have to prove the accussed guilt to an assembley of other =][= before action is taken. Well that would be the formal and prefered way to do it, as oppossed to a simple bolter round to the temple.
pretty much against an Ordo to watch the rest as this would be a bit pointless to have as the =][= would actively hunt down any rogues, slowly the spectrum of "radicals" would widen and result in more 'puritan' members being accussed of wrong doing. So this ordo would be soley comprised of and totally against anyone who wasn't a Fanatical Monodominant.
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Post by CELS on Apr 9, 2004 12:19:16 GMT -5
I would agree with this. Furthermore, if "foreign" Inquisitors (from other sectors, that is) come to the Anargo sector, they are obliged to inform the Ordos Anargo of their investigation. Of course, this is not always possible, especially when they are secretely investigating other Inquisitors, but at least that should be standard protocol.
The Ordo Master would survey the activities of other Inquisitors, and probably be one of the few individual with access to all Anargo Inquisitorial reports, in order for him to see the big picture and discover eventual patterns. I assume Inquisitors would normally go through him to summon other Inquisitors, and resources such as Black ships, Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, etc. Again though, they don't have to go through the Ordo Master, since they're Inquisitors and can do anything, but to not inform the Ordos Anargo about such actions would be frowned upon.
This is obviously to prevent some radical Inquisitor from just grabbing a company of Storm Troopers and disappearing without anyone as much as raising an eyebrow.
I agree that Inquisitors can only be found guilty of heresy by an assembly of several other Inquisitors. The Eisenhorn novels might have some info on exactly how many Inquisitors, and how they do the trials... Of course, it's not impossible for one Inquisitor to kill another without asking permission, I imagine. The Inquisition is not that beauraucratical (or however the stupid word is spelled). It would be more of a guideline, I imagine. If you do it once, there will be questions. If you do it twice, there will be interrogations.
As for the "Watcher of Watchdogs" Ordo, perhaps we should leave this open to interpretation? We could mention a number of incidents where Inquisitors are mysteriously killed off, and leave it up to the readers (or the person writing the reports) to determine if there's an Ordo within Ordos that specificially watches other Inquisitors.
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Post by Minister on Apr 9, 2004 14:44:45 GMT -5
However, if they make a habbit of flaunting convention and regulations without due cause, that's destablising the structure of an Imperial organisation, which is heresy...
Only if the relevant Lord wants to push it, but still...
As for the "watching the watchers", yes. Leave them at a few mentions at most. If they exist, they will be above sector level and so deep in security clearance that no-one will know about them in any sort of detail worth puting up.
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Raider
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The Anti-Christ
Posts: 53
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Post by Raider on Apr 10, 2004 21:43:00 GMT -5
I personally favour "everyone watching everyone else" in terms of the Inquisition. The idea of a kind of Inquisitorial Aduitor System really doesn't fit in with my image of a very loosely organised Inquisition. I much prefer the idea that every Inquisitor has to watch his back when around other Inqusitors.
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Post by CELS on Apr 13, 2004 3:15:26 GMT -5
What's to stop an Inquisitor from shooting the head off another over a difference of opinion then?
The Inquisitorial auditor system is described in the Eisenhorn novels, so it's pretty much canon, I'm afraid.
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 13, 2004 4:59:50 GMT -5
Quite frequently, nothing. Tyrus and Eisenhorn, Tyrus and Kessel, Tyrus and...I see a pattern forming here...
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Post by CELS on Apr 13, 2004 5:38:02 GMT -5
I'm tempted to ask you to scroll up, since I've replied to this point before, but....
My point is, as I've said before, an Inquisitor can kill another without warning, just like he can order Exterminatus without warning, but these things are very delicate. I don't think it's realistic for the Inquisition to not have some kind of trial to judge their own members.
If one Inquisitor can go around killing other Inquisitors because they don't agree with their philosophy, or because the others admit that female Eldar are attractive, or because they have a suspect look about them, the Inquisition would be a pretty scary and senseless organisation. Some level of order is required.
Again, I propose that it is quite possible for an Inquisitor to kill another without warning, but it's going to raise eyebrows. If he does it again, it's going to raise questions, and eventually get him in trouble.
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 13, 2004 7:30:48 GMT -5
Undoubtably. My point was that this 'system' obviously isn't all that strict.
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 13, 2004 7:40:31 GMT -5
Perhaps it is less a question of structure and more a cae of the enforcement of said structure. Randomly going around killing other Inquisitors is, however, a tad on the daft side. I'm sure that even Inquisitors are bothered about this wonderful thing called "burden of proof"... Kage
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Post by Minister on Apr 13, 2004 7:57:56 GMT -5
Presumably some sort of "jury of their piers" thing combined with answerability to the higher-ups.
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Raider
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The Anti-Christ
Posts: 53
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Post by Raider on Apr 15, 2004 0:51:19 GMT -5
Actually I doubt that Inquisitors are all that enthusiastic about murdering each other without trial. If you kill another Inquisitor, thats means another Inquisitor can kill you. Never underestimate the power of self-preservation.
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Post by Tynesh on Apr 15, 2004 5:39:10 GMT -5
Having other Inquisitors hunting you down only becomes a problem when the other Inquisitors know what you have done. By simply meeting up with a rival Inquisitor and having him fall out of an airlock or trying to play 'headbutt the bolter shell' is easy enough providing you forget to record it in your 'things I did working for the Inquisition today' book. Come next meeting a few people might realise he is missing. He may have been kidnapped by Kroot, eaten by Nids or sacrificed by a chaos cult for all they know.
IMHO the subject of peer-judgement with referal and duty-reports to a superior should sort out any internal policies for the Inquisition.
On another note, I have been doing a lot of research recently into Space Marine Chapters with the aim of setting up a large fluff based project at the end. I have noted that many of the fluff is penned by Inquisitors on their investigations into the chapters. Much of this appears to be routine. I therefore began wondering if there are Inquisitors who spend most of their time engaged in less 'vocational' activites of burning, purging and hunting, instead they pursue a more 'academic' career path. Rarely engaging in combat which we are familiar with, they read ancient texts compile codices, apocrypha and other source books as well as observe and comment upon the machinations of the Imperial Organisations. They are material investigators concerned with maintaining order and records that may be needed in the future.
In some ways I see them as being like accountants checking the accounts of Imperial Organisations and seeing if everything adds up. Sometimes descrepancies may be found which require the actions of a more dedicated Inquisitor or Ordo.
So any ideas on if or how an Ordo Librarius (not an excellent name I know) could exist??
Tynesh
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 8:35:47 GMT -5
We've still got all of this talk and little structure that can be both applied to the local (subsector and sector) and more general organisation in the Imperium itself. Hierarchal approaches seem the best, with the level of 'flexibility' in the system creating the various 'feels' of the organisation of the adeptus terra etc. It seems reasonable to suggest that there is a titular head of the Inquisition with the Anargo sector, an elect individual from one of the various ordo. Beneath him lies a council based upon the ranking members of each specific ordo. Beneath them are the various chambers of their individual ordo... etc. Individual Inquisitors are associated with both ordo and chamber, with ordo describing something more specific with regards to jurisdiction... And into this the secret society slides... Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 15, 2004 9:02:53 GMT -5
I still would like to point out that I dislike the concept of the Ordo being universal. I see no reason why any Inquisitor *has* to belong to any Ordo at all; striking out on his own or with members of his Cell being perfectly acceptable; if viewed with some scepticism by his less wayward peers.
I see Ordos being more of a structure founded for a specific purpose then dissolved when the task is done. In the cases of the major Ordos, their task will probably never be fulfilled and thus will never be disbanded. Ordos like the Sicarius, however, i.e. more specialised ones, serve their purpose only as long as their task lies ultimately unfulfilled. Should the Officio Assassinorum be dissolved, the Sicarius would be also.
Although I see how what I'm saying and what you are saying, Kage, can be reconciled. Although I don't believe that an Inquisitor must be of an Ordo, it is unlikely that he will be considered for a position of overall responsibility if he strikes out on his own frequently. Important yes, responsible no.
I'm also not keen on having a strong hierarchy in the Inquisition. As all Inquisitors are nominally equal in rank by their very charter, overall 'command' is achieved by consensus, rather than by the application of 'politics'. An Inquisitorial leader is one best suited to doing the work, rather than one most respected for his expertise. Indeed, the most 'senior' Inquisitors may well not be in any position of command at all, their skills most needed in the field. Delegation of said skills to tasks would be handled by one of their number most suited to paperwork and strategic planning.
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