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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 14, 2004 17:03:33 GMT -5
They could have been there until a subsequent founding created from their geneseed took over protection of the Sector. I shall have to send a reminder PM to Sikkukkut since he failed to send through the document. This is not what I meant. I think some of the misunderstandings stem from the fact that we have yet to fully define the Age of Strife Culture (AoSC) While it might make it a bit of a bummer to type, I would prefer that we avoid as many of these acronyms as possible. It can make discussion opaque to those that have not been reading through recently. <ahem> how far it extended and what its relationship with its neighbor were like. I hope the following will help to better illustrate what I had in mind by my original post. It would be reasonable to suggest that Cursed Subsector, as with many of the other subsectors (possibly not Castellan; but that's another thread) were 'bastions' of this Age of Strife Culture... The AoSC dominated a great portion of space that encompassed the CSS. Remembering that the common imagery for the period is one of regression. While society might have been fairly homogenous over the sector - that in itself being given a lie given the 'Heart of Anargo' concept - following the Age of Strife it would have drawn back in on itself, creating the basis of the subsectors. These societies that could, for the most part, retain a certain level of integration were then integrated as 'units' (though the form might have changed) during the Great Crusade. Without this then, I'm sorry, there is no chance beyond the typical attribution of 'magical tactical and political ability' to the Emperor and his Primarchs that the Great Crusade could have taken the length of time that it did and covered so much. (Though this depends on which of the figures that have been quoted.) (I'm unfortunately a 'realist', one who minimalises the deification of the Primarchs and the subsequent attribution of 'god-like' powers to them because of such 'cultural apotheosis' or canonisation... or whatever...) This included worlds that were directly under their control as well as worlds that were deemed “client worlds” or protectorates. A number of political structures could have been evidenced during the period. This was one of the original reasons that I argued for a 'subsector flavour' for each of the, well, subsectors. It provided for the fact that these 'micro-empires' had existed for five millennia and might have homogenised over that period... Of course, that doesn't quite work with the 40k 'fluff'... They provide a buffer between the AoSC and worlds in other sub-sectors, but still share in the wealth of the AoSC culture. That there would have been a 'hinterland' seems reasonable, but still creates a 'core volume' which is the heart of the subsequent subsector. The concept of 'micro-empires' in itself is somewhat contentious (read: apparently radical) in the 40k 'fluff', so it would be problematic at best to extend this too far. The reasons for the Alpha Legion originally attacking the AoSC could vary as we discussed earlier. If you're talking about the same Age of Strife 'culture' that I'm thinking of, then 'attacking them' would have been a part of the Great Crusade itself. Perhaps the problem is that they were not directly on a front, but rather consolidation forces bringing up the rear. If that 'front' was the Ultramarines then one can see why the Alpha Legion were getting rather snotty. If you wish to instead have the Adeptus Mechanicus overtly hostile to the AoSC, you could instead say that they were trying to beat the AM to the punch. Though the adeptus mechanicus had already maintained a position within the sector for quite some time... With the culture conquered, its client worlds would probably be incorporated into the Imperium. Once the worlds of the AoSC were purged of any technology or science deemed heretical, they too would probably be incorporated into the Imperium. Purging of the technology is problematic if not restricted to certain 'aspects' (i.e. any maintained AIs, etc.)... although that doesn't quite work. Though that's a common problem with the adeptus mechanicus anyway. Guess it depends on how people view it as operating in these times. Were they restrictive or were they questing? So easy to answer the former... In the information I have read it was mentioned that perhaps the capital of the Sector was originally in the CSS. That is always something which appeals to me. At current I'm working on this principle with the 'standardised representation' of Anargo through the mention of a coup d'etat on Anargo by the local adeptus arbites commander, returning Anargo to the fold of the 'loyalists'... It was this act combined with the other information on the Cursed Subsector (and the fact that they were seen as being cursed with the 'formation' of the Sargasso Gulf) that the capital seat was shifted to Anargo. (Though I'm tempted to play around with the concept of a transitional government that maintained itself for at least the majority of a century before this shift occurred...) That was why I had mentioned the possibility of one of the client worlds or one of the conquered AoSC worlds being made the capital. Again, if we're talking about the same thing then this would have been all but impossible to avoid. Let us say that for the sake of argument the capital for the Sector was situated inside of the CSS. There is no sake of argument. Not only am I working with that premise for my own contribution(s), minor as they are, but, well... thus sayeth the law. I'd say the AM would still abhor the idea of soulless machines after the war against the Iron Men. Did the AM have armies spread around the galaxy at this time? Explorator armies? Why does it have to be armies... other than they would have been a useful component of any exploratory force. Let me put it this way: How did the Forgeworlds form in the first place? Surely the answer to this is indicative of the fact that the adeptus mechanicus would still likely have 'significant' forces mobile throughout the galaxy...? As to the information on the "souless machines". As a 'realist' I tend to view machine spirits as being expert or pseudo-intelligent (AI) systems. True Machine Intelligence is, however, a big no-no... He was still trying to impress the Emperor at this point, and if someone found out that he'd actually captured technology when it should have been destroyed, he wouldn't have looked good. Assumption of course is that the Emperor espoused the beliefs of the adeptus mechanicus... We'll see what Kage says on the matter. The answer is above. The Cursed Subsector was the first capital of the "Anargo sector" (then called something else) and only because the Anargo sector following the successful revolt on Anargo and the subsequent re-seating of the capital at that world (<sigh> I'll resist the urge to say "reseating of leet authority" at that point; too much information on medieval England at this juncture!). Kage
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Post by Destecado on Apr 15, 2004 15:23:23 GMT -5
It would be reasonable to suggest that Cursed Subsector, as with many of the other subsectors (possibly not Castellan; but that's another thread) were 'bastions' of this Age of Strife Culture... Remembering that the common imagery for the period is one of regression. While society might have been fairly homogenous over the sector - that in itself being given a lie given the 'Heart of Anargo' concept - following the Age of Strife it would have drawn back in on itself, creating the basis of the subsectors. These societies that could, for the most part, retain a certain level of integration were then integrated as 'units' (though the form might have changed) during the Great Crusade. Without this then, I'm sorry, there is no chance beyond the typical attribution of 'magical tactical and political ability' to the Emperor and his Primarchs that the Great Crusade could have taken the length of time that it did and covered so much. (Though this depends on which of the figures that have been quoted.) I agree that the time needed for the great crusade to be accomplished by the forces organized to carry it out is way too short. It probably took much longer than initially realized. Actually that is an interesting thought. In our own history, there have been times when the calander has been adjusted or the entire calendar has been changed. This lead to changes in the dates which can throw off calculations. Perhaps an adjustment in the dates or omissions occured when the worlds were switched over to the Imperial Calendar. Another thoght is something that I think CELS brought up. It pretty much comes down to the idea of Island hopping used by the allies in the Pacif theater during WWII. Rather than attacking each and every island to root out the Japanese, the Allies took only those islands necessary to get them to the Japanese mainland and to secure their flanks. So if we were to extrapolate this to the Galaxy, the Great Crusades made Islands of Imperium around the galaxy that could later be used as jump off points for further pacification of the intervening areas. There was also the redesignation of vast amounts of the galaxy as wilderness space. These were areas that had little tactical value to the mperium or had yet to be brought under the Light of the Emperor. I have always thought that the idea that the Emperor united the entire galaxy was pretty much laughable if not an outright lie. They united a good portion of the area around sol as well as the galactic west, but the east was pretty much down to a few islands or "oasises" of Imperial Space on a back drop of the vast unknown of wirlderness space. Look at the crusade of Solar Macharius. It occured long after the Great Crusade, yet it speaks of visiting worlds that had never known the light of the Emperor. These are worlds that were well withing the Astonomicon boundary. The Imperium likes to think it rules everything and actually tells its citizens it does, but its grasp is only strong in portions of the galaxy. In others it is tenuous if non-existant. After the Horus Heresy, the reconquoring of areas that had turned traitor or rebelled would be doubly difficult with the much reduced forces of Space Marines and other imperial forces. From how the history of the Anargo sector seems to be unfolding, we seem to be in a cycle of conquoring and rebellion. Since it was the Alpha Legion that "Liberated" the area for the Imperium, we an surmise that it happened "later" in the Great Crusade. How much time do you estimate passed from the orginal incorporation of the Sector into the Imperium till the Horus Heresy? Also how much time passed from the outbreak of the Heresy to the Alpha Legion Assisted rebellion? How long before the rebellion was put down? If you look at it, I'm sure that you will find the intervening time that they were part of the Imperium is quite short. I've also done some diggin on the Adeptus Mechanicus. the following information in the following link was originally available in White Dwarf #140. www.criticalhit.co.uk/w40krp/wd140_adeptus_mechanicus.shtmlThe link below provides some other useful information about the Adeptus Mechanicus which should prove useful in framing our discussion. Most of this is information that I think Kage is already aware of www.geocities.com/ka_ge2020/admech.htmFrom the information itis possible that the Adeptus Mechanicus might well have been of the mind to try to negotiate with the Age of Strife Era Culture. Maybe negotiaitions broke down or maybe the Age of Strife Era culture was overtly hostile to the Imperial forces. What direction would you like to see it go in? Do you want to have the Adeptus Mechanicus acting on its own to break up the stalemate in negotiations? Was it on orders from the Adeptus Mechanicus? Did the Age of Strife Era Culture instead initiate hostilities when the Adeptus Mechanicus started building a forge world in the Anargo Sub-Sector? What are your thoughts?
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Post by Destecado on Apr 15, 2004 16:02:58 GMT -5
It would be reasonable to suggest that Cursed Subsector, as with many of the other subsectors (possibly not Castellan; but that's another thread) were 'bastions' of this Age of Strife Culture... Actually this might be what originally caused the war with the Age of Strife Era Culture. By moving into the Anargo sector, the Adeptus Mechanicus would have been their new "neighbors". I see the Age of Strife Era Culture as probably extending or having client worrlds in the Meksum sector and maybe one or two of the others. Perhaps they themselves had only recently begun to expand into the Anargo sector or had rejected some worlds in the sector for admission as client worlds. If the Imperium or in this case the Adeptus Mechanicus started to incorporate these worlds (making them knight worlds, adding them to the Imperium) the would have begun to come into direct competition. maybe that is why there are so many Knight Worlds in the Anargo Sub-Sector, to stave off attack or to push back the Age of Strife Era Culture. What are your thoughts? That there would have been a 'hinterland' seems reasonable, but still creates a 'core volume' which is the heart of the subsequent subsector. The concept of 'micro-empires' in itself is somewhat contentious (read: apparently radical) in the 40k 'fluff', so it would be problematic at best to extend this too far. If you're talking about the same Age of Strife 'culture' that I'm thinking of, then 'attacking them' would have been a part of the Great Crusade itself. Perhaps the problem is that they were not directly on a front, but rather consolidation forces bringing up the rear. If that 'front' was the Ultramarines then one can see why the Alpha Legion were getting rather snotty. Going with the island hopping metaphor, the Adeptus Mechanicus could have arrived with the original imperial fleets to sweep through this area. the Age of Strife era culture could have been passed over originally in the rush to swallow up the non affiliated worlds. This consolidation would of course not go unnoticed by the Age of Strife Era Culture who may have stepped up their own war preparations. Again we must decide who started the conflict. was it the Alpha legion, The Adeptus Mechanicus, The Age of Strife Era Culture, an here to befiore unlisted participant or a combination of the above? That is always something which appeals to me. At current I'm working on this principle with the 'standardised representation' of Anargo through the mention of a coup d'etat on Anargo by the local adeptus arbites commander, returning Anargo to the fold of the 'loyalists'... It was this act combined with the other information on the Cursed Subsector (and the fact that they were seen as being cursed with the 'formation' of the Sargasso Gulf) that the capital seat was shifted to Anargo. (Though I'm tempted to play around with the concept of a transitional government that maintained itself for at least the majority of a century before this shift occurred...) So we are talking about perhjaps a government that had nominal control of the entire Sector from the time of the cessation of hositilities with the Age of Strife Era Culture and the end of the Horus Heresy. Perhaps the Cursed Sub-Sector after suffering so grievously during the Great Crusade and then again during the Horus Heresy was just no longer able to support the population necessary to maintain it as the capital of the Sector. It was instead moved to the richer Anargo Sub-Sector that had flourished under the Adeptus Mechanicus. I was also thinking that the few worlds that remained in the sector were eventually destroued during the age of apostasy. It was not that these worlds took either side in the battle between the forces loyal to the ideas of Vandire and those that were opposed to them. Instead the main combatants in that war could be the Anargo and Meksum Sub-Sectors. Both sides were trying to take the worlds as garrisons or forward bases, in order to capitalize on the quick yet dangerous warp currents that ran through the Cursed Sub-Sector. They were for the most part caught in the middle. What are your thoughts?
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Post by CELS on Apr 15, 2004 16:13:06 GMT -5
If you're talking about the same Age of Strife 'culture' that I'm thinking of, then 'attacking them' would have been a part of the Great Crusade itself. Perhaps the problem is that they were not directly on a front, but rather consolidation forces bringing up the rear. If that 'front' was the Ultramarines then one can see why the Alpha Legion were getting rather snotty. Parden? It must be me getting tired, but I don't understand what you mean. Are you suggesting that the Ultramarines already passed through this area, and that the Alpha Legion came lagging after? Though the adeptus mechanicus had already maintained a position within the sector for quite some time... *slaps himself* Good point. How could I forget.... Purging of the technology is problematic if not restricted to certain 'aspects' (i.e. any maintained AIs, etc.)... although that doesn't quite work. Though that's a common problem with the adeptus mechanicus anyway. Guess it depends on how people view it as operating in these times. Were they restrictive or were they questing? So easy to answer the former... Since this age was all about uniting the galaxy in the Emperor's image, bringing the light of terra to the corners of the galaxy... well, that at least means that there would be a tendency in the Great Crusade to impose the Imperial ways on others. Whether the Adeptus Mechanicus shared this idea, is another question. At this point, the Adeptus Mechanicus was already an ancient organisation, and much time had passed since the wars against the Iron Men. In other words, plenty of time for radicals popping up and suggesting that the Iron Men were actually a good idea that went wrong. Why does it have to be armies... other than they would have been a useful component of any exploratory force. Actually, I was working of Destecado's idea, which I understood as Alpha Legion destroying the Age of Strife Culture's technology before the AM armies could get their hands on it. Anyway, this is pre-Heresy, and at this time the Imperium had no worries about independent Adeptus Mechanicus armies, which is why Horus managed to get untold Tech priests, tech guard and Titan legions on his side. It is quite possible that Adeptus Mechanicus armies arrived along with the Alpha Legion and Imperial Armies. Let me put it this way: How did the Forgeworlds form in the first place? Surely the answer to this is indicative of the fact that the adeptus mechanicus would still likely have 'significant' forces mobile throughout the galaxy...? Indeed, we know that they did. As to the information on the "souless machines". As a 'realist' I tend to view machine spirits as being expert or pseudo-intelligent (AI) systems. True Machine Intelligence is, however, a big no-no... And then there's the discussion of what is really True Machine Intelligence, but I'll elegantly sidestep that one I'm not sure I agree though, but it's not something that I've given a lot of thought. Assumption of course is that the Emperor espoused the beliefs of the adeptus mechanicus... The Emperor would fear the Iron Men after what they did to Mankind in the first place. The Emperor was not a naive man (or God, depending on who you ask ). It's partly thanks to him (or Him, if you will ) that the Imperium is so xenophobic and intolerant. So yes, the Emperor would share the beliefs of the AM on the unholy machines. He would not actually think them unholy, I suppose, but he would at least see them destroyed. At least that's my view. Another thoght is something that I think CELS brought up. It pretty much comes down to the idea of Island hopping used by the allies in the Pacif theater during WWII. Rather than attacking each and every island to root out the Japanese, the Allies took only those islands necessary to get them to the Japanese mainland and to secure their flanks. That is so not my idea, but I appreciate the credit It does sound appropriate for explaining the Great Crusade, though. I have always thought that the idea that the Emperor united the entire galaxy was pretty much laughable if not an outright lie. They united a good portion of the area around sol as well as the galactic west, but the east was pretty much down to a few islands or "oasises" of Imperial Space on a back drop of the vast unknown of wirlderness space. Considering the small amount of time they did it in, it's still a pretty amazing feat. Still, I agree that it's a lie to say that they united the Galaxy, but I haven't read anything like that in omniscient-style fluff, IIRC. Look at the crusade of Solar Macharius. It occured long after the Great Crusade, yet it speaks of visiting worlds that had never known the light of the Emperor. These are worlds that were well withing the Astonomicon boundary. The Imperium likes to think it rules everything and actually tells its citizens it does, but its grasp is only strong in portions of the galaxy. In others it is tenuous if non-existant. This is something that has been agreed upon in the Anargo Sector Project, which is why we can allow minor alien races in Imperial space, forgotten human empires, etc. Also how much time passed from the outbreak of the Heresy to the Alpha Legion Assisted rebellion? How long before the rebellion was put down? If you look at it, I'm sure that you will find the intervening time that they were part of the Imperium is quite short. Indeed. News of the Heresy spread pretty fast among the Space Marine legions. I've also done some diggin on the Adeptus Mechanicus. For more information, check out the Liber Mechanicus and the Proteus thread (the latter containing information on AM factions, philosophies and paradigms) What direction would you like to see it go in? Do you want to have the Adeptus Mechanicus acting on its own to break up the stalemate in negotiations? Was it on orders from the Adeptus Mechanicus? Did the Age of Strife Era Culture instead initiate hostilities when the Adeptus Mechanicus started building a forge world in the Anargo Sub-Sector? What are your thoughts? Erm... well... that's when we run into a problem. The AM of Proteus would not tolerate the Age of Strife Era Culture, and they had been here for millennia before the Great Crusade. If they did tolerate the culture, and actually show interest in the culture's technology, Proteus would in all likelyhood have some of this technology when the Great Crusade rediscovered it... Hmmm... this reminds me of the fact that we've already played with the idea that Proteus is known for its special machine spirits, that while being more advanced than the machine spirits from other worlds in many ways, are also known to be very temperamental... could this be evidence of Proteus having pre-Great Crusade contact with the Age of Strife Era Culture?
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 18:10:01 GMT -5
I agree that the time needed for the great crusade to be accomplished by the forces organized to carry it out is way too short. It probably took much longer than initially realized. The 'fluff' is confused on the matter. I tend to integrate them to suggest that the 'Emperor's Great Crusade' took place over two centuries, but the Great Crusade continued until the Horus Heresy and was only stopped by it. Indeed, parallel 'fluff' in the Angels of Darkness would seem to support this supposition. Rather than attacking each and every island to root out the Japanese, the Allies took only those islands necessary to get them to the Japanese mainland and to secure their flanks. An obvious tactic, yes. You target those places/worlds/systems that are most likely to secure you your objective while presenting the minimum of danger. If you have a domino effect through your activities, then more the better... So if we were to extrapolate this to the Galaxy, the Great Crusades made Islands of Imperium around the galaxy that could later be used as jump off points for further pacification of the intervening areas. This is what I refer to as the "wave theory" of the Great Crusade. Sequential waves of attacks with interstitial consolidation both in terms of the socio-economy of 'conquered' worlds and the expansion of the political and propaganda pressures... There was also the redesignation of vast amounts of the galaxy as wilderness space. These were areas that had little tactical value to the mperium or had yet to be brought under the Light of the Emperor. Those areas still exist today. That which is not in an Imperial subsector is deemed wilderness space. It is in these places that the 'barbarian worlds' of GW imagery should truly exist. I have always thought that the idea that the Emperor united the entire galaxy was pretty much laughable if not an outright lie. Exactly... How much time do you estimate passed from the orginal incorporation of the Sector into the Imperium till the Horus Heresy? That has not yet been developed. There is, however, some indication that the Emperor 'may' have walked on the worlds of Dorvastar. If this were case then I would personally "suggest" that integration occurred in the first two hundred years of the Great Crusade. If not, then we have a millennium to play with... If you look at it, I'm sure that you will find the intervening time that they were part of the Imperium is quite short. Hmmn... perhaps. <Kage goes to look for timeline on these things, remembering that he hasn't seen that many concrete dates in previous discussion> The link below provides some other useful information about the Adeptus Mechanicus which should prove useful in framing our discussion. Most of this is information that I think Kage is already aware of My opinions on the adeptus mechanicus have somewhat changed and 'matured' since that first attempt. Oh and... erm... Plllllttttthhhhh! Did the Age of Strife Era Culture instead initiate hostilities when the Adeptus Mechanicus started building a forge world in the Anargo Sub-Sector? What are your thoughts? The adeptus mechanicus seem very much to be a wild-card in the situation. What they did upon learning of the encroaching Great Crusade is, however, an interesting problem. I see the Age of Strife Era Culture as probably extending or having client worrlds in the Meksum sector and maybe one or two of the others. I would suggest that regionality was more a key of the Age of Strife, that the suggested homogeneity might not be entirely appropriate at this juncture. Furthermore, the traditional imagery of the Age of Strife revolves itself around decay. While I think that the image that GW presents is a 'mal-image', still we are stuck with the problem that it would be completely opposite to said image to have an expanding Age of Strife culture... maybe that is why there are so many Knight Worlds in the Anargo Sub-Sector, to stave off attack or to push back the Age of Strife Era Culture. What are your thoughts? There is, at present, only one Knight World. Or supposedly so. Of course, there is no real need to conform to the imagery of Knight World as a pastoral/agricultural world with semi-Titans... If you're talking about the same Age of Strife 'culture' that I'm thinking of, then 'attacking them' would have been a part of the Great Crusade itself. It's the same culture, I think, but one which I do not seem to see as being as homogenous as you. I also realise that this is digressing rapidly from the basic concept and, perhaps, should be another thread in the "Meta" board. Going with the island hopping metaphor, the Adeptus Mechanicus could have arrived with the original imperial fleets to sweep through this area. The original formation of the Forgeworld has little to do with the 'Imperial Fleets'. They were sent out during the Age of Strife, AFAIK. Unless CELS has changed something from that original premise. So we are talking about perhjaps a government that had nominal control of the entire Sector from the time of the cessation of hositilities with the Age of Strife Era Culture and the end of the Horus Heresy. Apparently not. We seem to be talking about two different things. I envisage that the 'Age of Imperium' had taken a foothold in the "Anargo sector" (actually the "'Cursed subsector' sector"!) and, following the Age of Apostasy the transition was made. It was instead moved to the richer Anargo Sub-Sector that had flourished under the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Anargo subsector is currently moving away from the rigid forms of the adeptus ministorum... Well, Anargo capital world anyway. Since this age was all about uniting the galaxy in the Emperor's image, bringing the light of terra to the corners of the galaxy... well, that at least means that there would be a tendency in the Great Crusade to impose the Imperial ways on others. I would suggest that the 'Imperial Way' that we are familiar with in the 'modern 40k' universe is not necessarily the same as that evidenced in the Great Crusade. At this point, the Adeptus Mechanicus was already an ancient organisation, and much time had passed since the wars against the Iron Men. In other words, plenty of time for radicals popping up and suggesting that the Iron Men were actually a good idea that went wrong. Also note that the concept presented with the Golden Men (etc.) does not strictly conform with the original information on the adeptus mechanicus... Actually, I was working of Destecado's idea, which I understood as Alpha Legion destroying the Age of Strife Culture's technology before the AM armies could get their hands on it. I would once again reiterate that I find it problematic that there was such a thing as an 'integrated' Age of Strife Culture... And then there's the discussion of what is really True Machine Intelligence, but I'll elegantly sidestep that one LOL. Unfortunately there is no side-stepping the concept of what a 'machine spirit' is. That is in the nature of fan 'fluff'. You don't have to take the lame approach that GW does! The Emperor would fear the Iron Men after what they did to Mankind in the first place. The Emperor was not a naive man (or God, depending on who you ask ). It's partly thanks to him (or Him, if you will ) that the Imperium is so xenophobic and intolerant. Based upon...? (Out of sheer interest where you get this from!) So yes, the Emperor would share the beliefs of the AM on the unholy machines. I would say this: Incorrect. The limited representation that one has to the Emperor with regards to 'science' and 'machines' shows that he supported them, not necessarily the beliefs of the adeptus mechanicus. So I do not disagree with you in the slightest on this point. <sigh> Kage
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Rich
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Post by Rich on May 19, 2004 5:33:32 GMT -5
Alpha Legion are, by their very nature, raiders and oppertunists. They also plan their actions years or even decades in advance. While the AL may maintain staging posts in a given area, I doubt that they would maintain a permanent presence in that area, prefering instead to move about and remain unseen. I would imagine that AL figures (including their half human/half marine 'agents') would make infrequent visits to the sector to check on the progress of cultist movements, and would wait until the oppertune moment before inciting any rebellion. I don't think that they would spend much time with any given cultist movement, instead prefering to give over responsibilities for training to their middle men, who are not full SMs and therefore much less likely to arouse suspicion. Therefore I would be tempted to write AL raids into the history, but to have them as a vague threat rather than a concrete presence in the sector. I see them as working from a cruiser somewhere in the wilderness space surrounding the sector, and making infrequent forays in smaller merchant/civilian vessels into not just Anargo but surrounding sectors as well.
Another idea that has occured is the possibility that at some point in the sector's history the AL have masqeraded as the Frost Wraiths (the Anargo SM Chapter?) to undertake raids. This would have created distrust between the SMs and the rest of the Imperial forces in the sector, and possibly some of the planetary populations, who would have been juped by the deception. It would also create an honour debt between the two forces, as the SMs would be very keen to wipe out the stain and distrust caused by the ALs tactics, and the AL for their part would be keen to exacerbate the situation by continuing raids dressed in enemy colours and tormenting the SMs.
The impression I get of the AL is tha if you are able to bring them to battle in any size then they have already lost (unless they happen to be teleporting into your HQ) and so they will always tend to avoid open combat unless the odds are in their favour, prefering to work through allies instead.
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Post by Lordof on May 19, 2004 9:03:47 GMT -5
Well the AL don't have a concrete presence in the sector they just happen to be "around" most of the time.
They are a Vague threat which has Inquisitors chasing half glimpsed shadows across half the segmentum and turning up with nothing.
They are the omnipresent threat which lurks in the background unseen and pulls political strings here and there to break up cohesiveness and union.
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