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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 4, 2004 7:27:54 GMT -5
Been discussing this with Destacado via PM, and it was suggested that I start a new thread so that everyone else could chime in their thoughts. The title is pretty much self-explanatory, what weapons the Atlanteans would employ. So far, they've gone through the following stages: 1) Las-tech: Quickly discarded when I realized lasers don't work underwater (pre-ASP) 2) "Disruptor" guns: Discarded, no clue what these were in the first place. (early ASP) 3)Guns that fire a complex element, which I began calling "warpium" for the sake of giving it a name, which degrades rapidly on exposure to (something - open air was my main idea) and the resulting breakdown frays the boundary between warpspace and realspace. Smaller guns shot clumps that effectively opened hundreds of microscopic warpgates wherever they hit for a second, bigger guns actually open small warp portals that suck nearby enemies in. This was my most developed idea, till Destacado brought up two important points. One, why would the Atlanteans develop a weapon that can't be used underwater; and two, the Atlanteans will most likely end up breathing through their skin and this would create contamination problems. So, this was discarded. (recent ASP) and 4) my current working, is sonic weapons. I was loathe to give them sonics since they were (in my mind) the realm of Slannesh Noise Marines. But Destacado pointed out that sonics would work above and below water, and that Slannesh only used a few sonic weapons. (current ASP) OTHER WEAPONS: With the above describing their basic guns, I've been attempting to adjust their special equipment. Previous doo-dads have been a gun that launches bolts of electricity (possibly to be reborn as a super-Taser), a weapon that causes the molecules in the target to lose their bonds on each other (no real use anymore), and several types of plasma weapons (these are still surviving since I came up with the concept of retaining the plasma energy in "spheres" of energy for use underwater, since someone pointed out very early that firing a plasma gun underwater would merely result in deep-fried fishman. So, thoughts on this? Any ideas? Pointless criticism?(kidding  . |
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Post by CELS on Jul 4, 2004 8:51:53 GMT -5
Pointless criticism... "Warpium" sounds really silly!! Oh, you were kidding..!  Well, I'm no scientist (as I'm sure you're all tired of hearing me say), but wouldn't sonic weapons cause fantastic 'feedback' or collateral damage underwater, where the sound waves spread so well? Sonic weapons sound cool though, and I actually think it would be better if this race didn't have some completely unique technology that no other race has even thought about. Super-tasers sounds good for a special weapon or support weapon. What about projectile weapons? Not as effective underwater, I know, but still useful over short distances. And I suppose you very rarely have underwater battles with great visibility (over 300 meters) anyway. Or maybe some high-tech projectile weapons. Linear accelerators, railguns, that sort of stuff? |
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Post by Tynesh on Jul 4, 2004 9:47:43 GMT -5
What about the classic underwater weapons....
....SPEARGUNS!!!
or maybe some form of dart projectile weapon, maybe poison used on them as well.
Like the idea of sonic weapons. I guess they would be highly focussed sonic waves that concuss the victim with blasts of water??? I think the FBI hhas dveloped a sonic weapon that uses low frequency sound to cause nausea etc in hostage situation, maybe you could develop this as being sick into a respirator while under water is not the best thing to happen to you!
Other weapons like explosives are a good option as well. Maybe some hightech micro torpedo launcher or depth charges would be good, keeping th Atlantean out of harms way?
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 4, 2004 10:12:22 GMT -5
I love it! Once again, Destacado is a genius. We discussed primitive weapons from their history, and thought of slug-throwers powered by chemical reactions instead of black powder (which doesn't work underwater). Railguns, I think, are the realm of the Tau for sure. Tynesh: Waaaay ahead of you. One of the options for the Stalkers (scout/sniper troops) ATM is the Harpoon Gun, which is, well, a harpoon gun. In wargame terms, whichever model in a squad hit by the gun is dragged forward D6", possibly out of coherency  . I originally had a torpedo launcher, but I dropped it since it was just a missile launcher clone with a different name. Reinstate it? Oh, I forgot something. Mines! This was (i think) one of the best innovations, a tank/vehicle that zooms around dropping minefields. |
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Post by CELS on Jul 4, 2004 12:04:01 GMT -5
Railguns realm of Tau? No, not really. According to BFG, Imperial ships have railguns too. Apparently though, the Imperium just hasn't managed to make small versions of them, like the Tau have. But then, maybe the Atlanteans don't have the tech-level of the Imperium or the Tau.
Torpedo launcher sounds nice, although useless on land. Some sort of Penguin missile might be better.
Mines are alright, same as on land.
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Post by Tynesh on Jul 4, 2004 21:01:28 GMT -5
May I ask what a penguin missile is without looking really stupid, or is it what I think it is |
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Post by CELS on Jul 4, 2004 21:45:42 GMT -5
It's a missile disguised as a penguin, very much like the sheep bomb in Worms. Ok, that was a joke. It's a Norwegian missile that can be fired from boats or helicopters, used on sea targets. Just before reaching its target, it goes under water, hitting its target from underneath. So, very much like a penguin. Except penguins don't have a 50 kg warhead  www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-pen.htmlI just figured the Atlanteans might have a missile that can do the opposite (underwater - underwater / underwater - surface) |
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 5, 2004 0:54:07 GMT -5
neato. Definitely a viable weapon.
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Post by Destecado on Jul 6, 2004 8:09:16 GMT -5
Acoustic Weapons -
The human ear can only preceive a very small portion of the sound spectrum. The human auditory range is between 20Hz and 20,000Hz (1Hz = 1 cycle per second)
Sounds that are higher in frequency than 20,000Hz are known as ultrasound, while those lower than 20Hz are called infrasound. neither can be preceived by the human ear, but infrasound can sometimes be felt resonating within the body. Exposure of unprotected ears to infrasound can also cause an increase in pressure within the middle ear, disturbing the sense of balance.
INFRASOUND
According to results published by NASA researching the effects of the low frequencies emitted by rocket engines during launch, frequencies between 0Hz and 100Hz, at up to 150-155dB, produced vibrations of the chest wall, changes in respiratory rhythm, gagging sensations, headaches, coughing, visual distortion, and post-exposure fatigue. Vibration of the eyeballs resulting in distortion of vision occured around 19Hz.
Exposure to certain infrasound frequencies could stimulate aggression and exacerbate psychological disturbances. There have been accounts of ‘temporary psychosis’ associated with natural phenomena that support such a theory. The Mistral (in the Rhone Valley) and the Sirocco (off the Sahara), are two famous winds that are said to create periods of momentary insanity. the gusts of wind are imbedded with infrasound frequencies.
The problem with an Infrasound weapon is that the lnger wavelengths do not move as well through the air. They move best through the water or in the cases of an earthquake through the earth. They are also hard to direct. The best use of such a weapon would be to perhaps deploy a device via drop pod or lander that emits the low frequencies in an enemies city causing them to perhaps begin to fight amongst themselves.
Actually you could perhaps make sonic grenades or warheads for torpedoes or missiles (Sonics). Since the area of effect would not be that great for infrasound weapons, a standard 2" template would probably be perfect for the effects of such a device.
ULTRASOUND
While infrasound is not practical as a targetted weapon (directly), it is possible to focus Ultrasound into a narrow intense beam. Since the wavelengths are much shorter, they travel greater distances in the air.
An existing device emits a beam up to 145 decibels. this is 50 tmes the normal human threshhold of pain. It would be like standing beneath a jet as it takes off. Granted the device is currently the size of a stereo speaker, but with advances in technology, it could be paired down to a hand held weapon (which is already in the works).
The sound is beamed along two ulrasonic signals. The sound is only produced at the point where the two intersect. It has no effect on the user. This would work best against soft targets, so it should bring it into line with most other races standard weapon.
Sound opens other possibilities as well. The Atlanteans cities might be able to change depth or even float by means of acoustic levitation. I need to study that application in a little more depth, but I hope the info on ifrasound and ultrasound helds.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 6, 2004 8:15:40 GMT -5
All right, so we have the following: - Sonic Weapons (basic gun) - Spear/harpoon launchers - plasma guns - a type of uber-Taser (working name: Teslacannon) - some sort of reverse Penguin missile - mines Tentative: -railgun of some sort. Maybe not if the fluff, but giving them a "railgun" would be in wargame terms ripping off the Tau. It has possibilities, though. Would mini-railguns be possible, creating a sort of sniper rifle that fires a normal sized bullet ultrafast? (Wargame plug: Atlantean sniper rifles, currently "lifeseeker rifles", hit on 2+ and wound on 4+ but have a variable AP depending on the to-hit roll).Way Out There: a projectile weapon with a high RoF. This was in the early incarnations of the Atlanteans, called a "Gatling cannon/gun". The idea was a weapon similar to an assault cannon but taking advantage of their skill with water to produce a much mor efficient cooling system. (Wargame plug 2: v1 Gatlings fired x shots, with x being the number of shots fired last turn plus D3 - dropped since it was too much bookkeeping, and am now toying with giving it Sustained Fire like the Swooping Hawk Exarch ability - possibly too powerful). This is in the "way out there" category because it now seems odd for them to have so much high-tech sonics and energy weapons, then pull out a big machine gun . Whoa, where'd you come from Destacado? Now I have to read your post too.Continued: Very interesting. Ultrasound definitely looks like the way to go, the only possible difficulty was that I was planning to have them communicate via ultrasound as well, Would that be a problem? |
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Post by Destecado on Jul 6, 2004 8:42:56 GMT -5
Ultasound would work for commnicating information it is als very difficult to tap or ntercept, because the sound or noise is only heard at the place where the two beams intersect. The problem of course becomes that it can only be used in line of sight.
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Vatsyayana on Jul 6, 2004 8:51:05 GMT -5
If we are talking about weapons for use underwater;
Gyrojet guns: The gun fires small missiles instead of bullets. Pretty much a bolter for underwater.
Railguns wouldn't be good underwater unless the barrel is kept free of water by some kind of force field. Otherwise the railgun will kick out serious plasma as a secondary effect and have major recoil.
Plasma weaponry would quickly loose energy over distance, and probably the same for fusion weapons.
Lasers also aren't the best idea unless you get into the x-ray/gamma range (which is extremely high tech).
Anti-matter weapons could work, especially in a rail gun type configuration. Sling crystaliron needles with magnetically confines anti-matter at a target. With successive shots you could gouge holes in even the thickest material.
That's just what I can think of off the top of my head. I can also think of some more evil, physics based weapons, but they would be way out of tech range.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jul 6, 2004 9:08:36 GMT -5
This should continue in the main Atlantean thread, but what would make better options for a vocal language?
ILV: Unusual ideas.
I don't want to give them bolters, so gyro-jets are out. Any sort of projectile weapon would be low-use underwater, but they still need weapons with high value above water.
Plasma would indeed lose energy, but I've (I think) circumvented that by containing the plasma in "bubbles" of energy which rupture when they hit a target.
Lasers are definitely out.
Antimatter ounds cool, but a little too high tech for the 40K universe.
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Post by Dazo on Jul 6, 2004 9:26:23 GMT -5
Infra sound does alot more than that, i know of an infrasonic experiment that went wrong, when they switched on the generator everyone in the room dropped down dead, their insides had been liquified
So a sonic bomb would be quite a nasty weapon, if a bit short ranged
A sonic stilleto, Ultrasound can cause molecules to vibrate so fast they ignite(but underwater its energy might be lost as it boils the water i passes through)
Electro pulse torpedo, could be a kind of stun weapon or depending on the charge used a lethal one
How would liquid nitrogen react underwater, would it freeze the surrounding water or have no effect#
Barbmine, works kinda like a jellyfish sting, the toxins used could vary in lethality depending on how u want to use it
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Post by Destecado on Jul 9, 2004 4:57:40 GMT -5
I have an interesting thought for the Atlanteans with regard to their technology and weapons. It occurs to me that eyes used for seeing underwater might not be as acute out of the water (requirements of defraction of light and other reasons). What if the race's use of sound in their weapons grew out of their own use of sound for sight and navigation?
Sonar works both in the water (whales, dolphins) and outside of the water (bats). It may be that they use the sonar in order to navigate and find their directions. Instead of using an infared beam or visual targeting, the weapons might send out a hypersonic pulse for targeting.
The standard trooper would not have such sights intigrated into their weapons. They would only be for special weapons or for heavy weapons. The advantage of these is that you do not need to see the enemy to hit them. Rather than giving a bonus to hit as other sites do in the wargame, maybe the acoustical targeter eliminates cover saves or reduces them by 1.
The reason for this is that when the beam bounces back to the receptor, it can create not only a three dimensional image of the target range, but also differentiate between objects. Objects have different densities which the targeter can discriminate between.
Even if the soldire is hiding in trees, the accoustic targeter will be able to tell the difference between the density of the tree and the soldire.
Another thought is to have the acoustic targeter increase the distance that can be seen in night fight scenarios. Any thoughts?
Another idea would be that their language is also more of a sing song like whales or other aquatic mammals. It could also perhaps be outside of the normal human range of hearing when they are above water.
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