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Post by CELS on Sept 12, 2004 12:52:52 GMT -5
Well, I'm writing an article/essay/whatever on the Adeptus Mechanicus, as promised, and at the moment I'm wondering what I want to put in it, so I thought I'd ask all of you people what you think would be useful to read about, both for the ASP and for fluff lovers in general.
At the moment, I'm thinking
[/li][li]Adeptus Mechanicus history. Not as detailed as the Liber Mechanicus, for sure. [/li][li]The structure and ranks of the Adeptus Mechanicus. The different Collegia and whatever the different branches are called. Biologis, Cybernetica, whatever. Also, a complete hierarchy, ranging from low adepts and servitors to the Fabricator General himself. [/li][li]The factions, philosophies and Paradigms of the Adeptus Mechanicus, most of which has already been written and posted on Portent and the ASP forum. [/li][li]The position of the Adeptus Mechanicus within the Imperium. Is the Adeptus Mechanicus merely a branch of the Adeptus Terra, or a seperate entity altogether, or somewhere in between? Also, how does the alliance between the Adeptus Mechanicus and the rest of the Adeptus Terra work? How do forgeworlds serve the Imperium without any tithes? Etc.
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Post by malika on Sept 12, 2004 15:10:30 GMT -5
Ok...a question: what is this "Liber Mechanicus"? where can I get it?
And how far are you now with the article/essay/whatever?
Will you incoorporate characters in it? Will it also revolve about the Mechanicus' presence in Anargo?
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Post by CELS on Sept 12, 2004 15:20:34 GMT -5
More like five, actually It's a big article about almost everything that is Adeptus Mechanicus, from their humble beginning on Mars to the Skitarii and the Titan Legions. Well... you can either roam the earth for the rest of your life, praying that God will grant you your wish and bring it to you... or you can search for Liber Mechanicus on Google.com and press the link at the top of the page I'm at the research stage. Haven't written anything other than the philosophies/factions/paradigms part. Not initially, but I might write about certain characters in 'colour text' to spice it up. The article is about the entire Adeptus Mechanicus though, found almost everywhere in the Imperium, so I will not be focusing on any characters, but rather looking at its history and how it works today. Not at all. Like my previous Ork article, and zholud's planned Navigator article, this is an entirely 'neutral' article that can be read without any knowledge of the Anargo Sector. In fact, I'll probably not mention the Anargo sector once. It's just to explain what the Adeptus Mechanicus is. Implementing this knowledge comes at a later stage. (Well, actually, I've already done that when I made Proteus, but there you go )
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 12, 2004 15:44:13 GMT -5
I would also strongly suggest that it would be unwise to go overtly down either of the routes of "Adeptus Me-can-icus" or "Adeptus Me-can't-icus". Allow the full spectrum of activity otherwise you're going to go down the route of Abnett where his personal opinion and what is needed to be inserted because of the "Canon Divergence Police"...
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Post by Dazo on Sept 12, 2004 18:12:06 GMT -5
I would like to here somthing about their relationship with the Inquisition, and administratum, there's some interesting group dynamics between those three me thinks.
Also their approach to advanced technology, how advanced are they, how far do they let human invention go on advanced imperial worlds. Theres only so far you can develop stub and auto weapons before someone has the bright idea of slapping on a linear magnetic accelerator.
Do the mechanicus and the inquisition always agree on what is classed as heresy.
How advanced are they...really, it seems to me that though some consider biotech as being harder to develop the mechanicus seem to have a very good grasp of using it, more so than some of the more basic sciences if you ask me.
Warp drives ;D I need to know, what is or what would you say is the current output capacity of warp drive's by the mechanicus.
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 13, 2004 4:46:14 GMT -5
I would like to here somthing about their relationship with the Inquisition, and administratum, there's some interesting group dynamics between those three me thinks. There are 'interesting group dynamics' between all the Imperial organisations. Despite their attempt to represent the Imperium has a homogenous organisation (i.e. adeptus terra) in the 'rulebooks' - the point of most shallow 'fluff' - any monkeying around with the 'fluff', such as in the BL novels, tends to show that this is not the case. Also their approach to advanced technology, how advanced are they, how far do they let human invention go on advanced imperial worlds. The only problem is that you're getting into interpretation. Admittedly that is a part of the point of the ASP, but in the 'articles' which I would hope that the writers would want to spread around, as it were, care should be taken to "represent" and not necessarily "over interpret". Keep the spectrum of possibility within the article and not the specific 'black-white' interpretation more often seen. Defining 'how advanced' they are is also going to be completely relative: 'more advanced than the Imperium, but less advanced than the eldar'? But how advanced are the eldar, one immediately questions? Theres only so far you can develop stub and auto weapons before someone has the bright idea of slapping on a linear magnetic accelerator. That's the TL system, which is not strictly a part of the 40k universe although it is useful as a means of suggesting developments. Arggghh... I'm going to end up contradicting myself with regards to relativity and not taking a stance. Ah well. Then again, this is actually present in the Eldar Sourcebook whenever I can be bothered to get around to completing that with Fenric... It's mostly 'fluff' (interpretative, but trying to keep in the full spectrum and making overt reference to it), but every now and again slips into RPG scale to give it a bit more 'objectivity' or, at least, something to relate to. Do the mechanicus and the inquisition always agree on what is classed as heresy. From the 'fluff' self-evidently not. How advanced are they...really, it seems to me that though some consider biotech as being harder to develop the mechanicus seem to have a very good grasp of using it, more so than some of the more basic sciences if you ask me. Chances are that the adeptus mechanicus are more advanced in everything! Warp drives ;D I need to know, what is or what would you say is the current output capacity of warp drive's by the mechanicus. That answer is whatever you want it to be. No-one is going to change that even with GW re-hashing the new 'fluff'...
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Post by CELS on Sept 13, 2004 11:17:09 GMT -5
I would also strongly suggest that it would be unwise to go overtly down either of the routes of "Adeptus Me-can-icus" or "Adeptus Me-can't-icus". Allow the full spectrum of activity otherwise you're going to go down the route of Abnett where his personal opinion and what is needed to be inserted because of the "Canon Divergence Police"... Which reminds me that I need to clarify the advancement of technology in the Adeptus Mechanicus. I.e. are designs improved by the Adeptus Mechanicus? Has the Adeptus Mechanicus learned anything about the orks the last twenty millennia, or are they still pretty much a mystery?
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 13, 2004 16:52:36 GMT -5
The only problem there is that GW are self-evidently uninterested in creating a viable and dynamic universe. Rather they are more concerned with creating a 'setting' which works along the "Rule of Cool". Whether it is consistent or actually works is not relevant to them...
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Post by Minister on Sept 13, 2004 17:02:01 GMT -5
Something I started yonks ago but did nothing with:
A Treatise on the Origins of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the Cult of the Machine
The Adeptus Mechanicus did not exist in the early days of man’s expansion, nor did exist during the Dark Age of Technology (known by some as the Golden Age of Technology. The conflicting names stem from the darkness which befell humanity’s spiritual well-being whilst technology spiralled out of control.). The Cult Mechanicus came into being on Mars during the Age of Strife (M26-M30). Whilst many of the details of this terrible age have been lost there is still enough to fill many large volumes, so suffice to say that humanity’s technology and civilisation began to degenerate on almost all worlds of humanity (A process brought on or hastened or, indeed, brought on by the warp storms and the increasing incidences of psyker mutations, although some cite over-dependence upon xenos archaeotech as a major contributor).
During the aforementioned Age of Strife the various technologies which sustained humanity on Mars began to deteriorate to such a degree that the planetary population appeared on the brink of utter annihilation. During this time much of the population turned to extreme cults in order to preserve them. The only one of these which ultimately succeeded was the Cult of the Machine (Although it should be noted that this is the current name, the original name is likely to remain unknown). This group was originally formed primarily of the remnants of the technicians and artisans of Mars (Although they were later joined by a considerable number of laypersons). Their main tenants of belief were the sanctity of knowledge and the importance of the machinery to life (which was true on Mars at that time, due to their reliance on such things as air filtration systems, geno-cultured algae -based foodstuffs and the radiation shielding units).
As time progressed much of Mars’s lost technology was reclaimed, far more than was salvaged on Earth, so that when the Divine Emperor made contact with Mars during the beginning of the Great Crusade (circa M29-M30) he found a valuable source of industry and technology with which to aid the reconquest of human space. Thus it was that the Adeptus Mechanicus was formed (The Titan Legions, precursors to the current Collegia Titanica/Adeptus Titanicus, was also formed at this time, as a semi-independent subsidiary, along with the Tech Guard and other such groups).
An overview of the History of the Adeptus Mechanicus
Prelude
In this, the first of my essays on the origins of the great Imperial organisations, I shall deal with the history of the Adeptus Mechanicus. I shall deal first with the prehistory of the organisation, in the form of the foundation of the first Martian colonies, then move forward chronologically to the present. It should be noted that these sections are not of constant length, but expand for those sections where knowledge is less sparse.
Part one: The Prehistory of Mars Little is known of the prehistory of Mars, however it is shown by ancient records that humans first arrived during the third millennia. Exactly which area this first landing, and the subsequent first settlement, took place on is shrouded in mystery, although both Syria Plateau and Utopia Planintia lay claim to this honour. It is also known that in the early twenty-second century Mars became subject to the first full-scale terraforming by humans, granted its fertile soil and a life-supporting atmosphere. However, agriculture was never very important on Mars, its main wealth lay beneath the surface, in the metal ores, gems and minerals once abundant there.
It is thought that the first humans to settle on mars were explorers and scientists, yet it is clear that they were soon ousted from their dominant position by industrialists and their workforces. Mars became a centre for industrial production and research, its very name becoming synonymous with technical expertise and technological innovation. As Mars’ population grew, it became a hub for further space exploration, throughout the solar system and, eventually, to the wider galaxy.
Part Two: The Golden Age of Technology As mankind entered the Golden Age of Technology Mars was ever at the forefront of technological advance, growing into the first of what are now known as hive worlds. Beneath the radiation shields the population grew and prospered. Great shipyards blossomed into orbit, tethered by great spans by which men and machines could travel to and from the surface. Machines smaller than grains of sand and ships larger than moons were built over this age, along with machines of sentience and warriors of unrelenting strength. But the greatest discovery was that of the warp drive. With this, humanity was truly able to reach to the stars and begin to fulfil its destiny. Records recovered from an ancient ruin on sacred Terra, the Bundes Universitat Europa uncovered beneath park land in the Imperial City, cite the Martian Institute of Advanced Bio-Science as pivotal in the isolation of the Navigator gene. Martian scientists also worked on the Terra-based Standard Template Construct over these millennia, to provide for the needs of the human colonies now spreading throughout the galaxy.
The heart of the great Standard Template Construct, or STC, system was an evolved form of congigator equipped with vast repositories of data designed to fulfil every technological need of the colonies, from agricultural equipment and plasma generators to tanks and starships. These designs were highly ruggedised and fairly crude by the standards of their day, designed to be simple to fabricate; operate and maintain. As humans spread further into the galaxy a greater proportion of the database was alocated to military resources for the first of the Alien Wars, although the bulk of the system remained dedicated to more benign technology.
The isolation of the Navigator gene proved as significant an advance as any other. These human-derived genetic constructs were created with a third eye able to perceive warp-space in a way which no technology could. These creatures allowed human civilisation to spread further and faster than ever before. Previously interstellar warp travel had to be made in jumps no greater than ten light-years in the best of conditions, but the Navigators could guide ships across sectors in single jumps. Although at this point, due to the lack of a beacon equivalent to the Astronomican of the Imperial era, the Navigators could not fulfil their full potential they revolutionised human interstellar civilisation. With trade now practical over longer distances, trading centres such as Terra, Mars, Olphia and Cypra Mundi grew wealthy beyond the dreams of avarice.
Part Three: The Long Night
{Ran out of steam about here}
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 14, 2004 8:47:13 GMT -5
I'm always pleased to see it when people go to effort of writing things in their own words and not just copy/pasting. With that said, it falls into the same hand-waving trap as the original 'fluff', e.g. technology is failing (why?), and those not really in the know (why?) are elevated (fine) to positions of responsibility. It also automatically heads onto monastic terminology (e.g. 'lay person') giving it a religious feel from the start, rather than a pragmatic response to the situation coupled with maintenance of power structures... But then again, that's my basis and I'm constantly grouchy at the moment. I would, however, strongly suggest that any write-up of the adeptus mechanicus makes as neutral an approach/clear-up to this nightmare of their origins. That it is not automatically a hand-waved "failing environment" (remembering that the 'fluff' defines jungles on mars, something that is going to need dense atmosphere, etc., therefore ameliorating 'radiation' blah blah) argument... Something also that does not automatically devalue humanity in the equation...
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Post by Minister on Sept 14, 2004 13:16:38 GMT -5
It is from the point of view of an Imperial scholar, Kage, and therefore they don’t have most of the information.
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Post by zholud on Sept 14, 2004 14:34:46 GMT -5
With that said, it falls into the same hand-waving trap as the original 'fluff', e.g. technology is failing (why?) Because for that level of tech you need AI and it turned against human and cannot be used anymore... Similar to tat Jihad in Dune universe, where they also dropped to semi-medieval empires...
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 14, 2004 19:39:16 GMT -5
It is from the point of view of an Imperial scholar, Kage, and therefore they don’t have most of the information. Ah... you're using the standard get out clause and working along paraphrasing (which I use extensively in some cases). Fairy snuff... Zholud... Gotta love those circular arguments. The horrendous Iron Men 'fluff' was a direct rip from Dune. I'm well aware of this... The point being is that is it an appropriate "rip off" given the rest of the 'fluff'. The answer is, for the most part, no.
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Post by CELS on Oct 9, 2004 7:29:34 GMT -5
Here's the proposed contents of my article, and what I've written so far. + + + + Overview of Adeptus Mechanicus origins and history Quick- Age of Strife, Great Crusade, Horus Heresy
Position of the Adeptus Mechanicus in the Imperium Part of the Adeptus Terra. Unique because of Forgeworlds, its military forces, its superior understanding of technology.
Sovereign of the Adeptus Mechanicus, forgeworlds and knight worlds.
Military forces, the tech guard, Titan legions and Ordinati.
Superior understanding of technology. Not a monopoly on science.
The structure of the Adeptus Mechanicus Hierarchy, collegia, internal organisations (Skitarii, Legio Titanica, Explorators)
Factions, philosophies and paradigms
A question of progress or stagnation
Does the Adeptus Mechanicus learn, or does it squabble for the scraps of lost technology? Is technology from the Dark Age really lost? Etc+ + + + The Hierarchy of the Adeptus Mechanicus[/size][/u] Magos Mechanicus (Fabricator General) Principis Segmentum (Segmentum Supervisor) Principis Regionalis (Regional Supervisor) Arch Magos Ultima (Highest Arch Mage) Arch Magos Primus (First Arch Mage) Arch Magos (Arch Mage) Magos Amplus (High Mage) Magos (Mage) Sacerdos Amplus (High Priest) Sacerdos (Priest) Novum Senioris (Senior novice) Novum (Novice) Discipulus (Scholar, Acolyte) Like all other organisations of the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus has a rigid hierarchy to enforce order amongst it countless members. Whilst each title says very little about the authority and responsibilities that are given to the individual that carries it, the title shows one’s position on the path of the Omnissiah, from the ignorant student to the enlightened master. Hence, the authority of the members on top of the hierarchy often comes from respect more than power. In this regard, the Adeptus Mechanicus is a structural mix between the rigid Adeptus Administratum and the fluid Inquisition. Similar to the hierarchies of most other Imperial organisation, the ladder of the Adeptus Mechanicus is long with many different steps. This, of course, comes from the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus has billions of members spread all across the galaxy, and the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus performs all internal administration without the help of the Administratum or any outside organisations. Many outsiders include servitors in the hierarchy of the Adeptus Mechanicus, simply for the fact that the Adeptus Mechanicus relies heavily on these lowly servants and because it is not unheard of to have criminal members of the Adeptus Mechanicus degraded to servitors. The members of the Adeptus Mechanicus do not consider servitors a part of the hierarchy themselves, because their hierarchy represents the journey to enlightenment. Where the young novice and the ancient arch mage both strive for enlightenment, the servitor does not. Because servitors are not on this path of wisdom, they are typically excluded from the hierarchy. Another line drawn by the members of the Adeptus Mechanicus – one that is not represented in their hierarchy- is the line between theoreticians and practitioners. An Arch Mage can be the administrator of a mighty Titan forge complex with hundred thousands of workers or the leader of a great Explorator fleet, but can also be a researcher deep below the grounds of Mars, commanding only a handful of novices and servitors. Naturally, some members of the Mechanicus give this line more importance than others. Starting at the bottom of the hierarchy, the scholars and acolytes (Discipulus, pl. Discipuli) of the Adeptus Mechanicus are members only in faith and not body. Scholars and acolytes have not yet undergone the Rite of Initiation and have not been blessed with any augmentations. The difference between a scholar and an acolyte, is that a scholar is studying the knowledge of the Adeptus Mechanicus at a school, whilst the acolyte is learning from a senior member of the Mechanicus. A scholar can be chosen a novice through difficult exams and tests at his school, and many scholars give up before they pass their tests. Acolytes on the other hand, serve as assistants and learn through the path of the practitioner. It is up to the senior members of acolytes to determine if they have the keen intellect needed to become a tech priest, and to decide when it is time for the acolytes to advance to become novices. When one has been chosen to become a novice, one must first go through the Rite of Initiation. In this rite, the tissue of the subject is studied by arcane machines and the subject is given the first bionic augmentation. This augmentation is implanted into the brain and allows direct communion with machines and other members with similar implants. Only when a member has completed the Rite of Initiation is the member considered a novice and allowed to carry the sacred crimson robes of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Upon becoming a novice (Novum), the member is usually assigned to a tech priest based on abilities of the member. It is up to this tech priest to educate the novice according to the path that is set before the novice, and to choose the balance between theory and practice. For example, a novice might show a special ability and fervour in subject dealing with biology. It is then up to the tech priest to prepare the novice for the Collegium Biologis or to assign the novice to someone who can. After a period of mostly theoretical studies, the young member can be given the title of senior novice. Senior novices accompany tech priests in their duties and learn about the duties and responsibilities of a tech priest. This is the last step before becoming a Tech Priest, and the final stage where a member can be rejected by the Adeptus Mechanicus. If a senior novice does not show the needed qualities to become a tech priest, he or she is usually given a position as a civil engineer or mechanic outside the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Tech Priests (Sacerdos) are the most numerous group within the Adeptus Mechanicus, given countless different tasks. Supporting Imperial Guard regiments, operating engines on starships, administering workers in factories, educating young novices and performing important research in laboratories are just a few of the many duties carried out by Tech Priests. This is the first independent step on the path of the Adeptus Mechanicus, and the first chance for a member to really make a name for him- or herself. Tech Priests can carry an array of different augmentations required for their work. The most successful and venerable Tech Priests are eventually elevated to the rank of High Priest. Though this greater responsibilities usually comes with this rank, it can also be simply a mark of talent and promise. The rank of Magos is a great honour, and not all Tech Priests live to reach this rank. The Magi of the Adeptus Mechanicus are ancient men and women, kept alive by many bionic augmentations and replacements. Upon becoming a Magos, a Tech Priest must travel to Mars to undergo the Rite of Magi, also known as the Rite of First Light. This rite is the longest and hardest of all Adeptus Mechanicus ceremonies, and there are many who go insane or die in the process. Those who do survive, are not only the most talented and successful of tech priests, but also the strongest of mind and body. They carry enormous respect, even outside the Adeptus Mechanicus. Should a Magos choose the path of the leader, he can be given the rank of Arch Magos. The Arch Magi are the powerful elite of the Adeptus Mechanicus, with whole fleets and even forgeworlds under their control. To an outsider, the Arch Magi are usually completely unrecognisable as humans and can be a quite disturbing sight. Few retain any of their original limbs, and there are many who lack a humanoid shape whatsoever. To members of the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Arch Magi are sacred- the perfection of the holy bond between human mind and mechanical body. Standing above even the Arch Magi on the hierarchy, are a few administrative positions. The Segmentum and Regional Supervisors (Principis Segmentum, Principis Regionalis) have a unique position in the hierarchy in that they serve only as links between the High Altar of Knowledge and the Fabricator General on Mars and the countless servants of the Machine God. Their purpose is to control and survey the constant flow of information that enters the High Altar of Knowledge and to report to the Fabricator General. They are without doubt the humans in the Imperium possessing most knowledge, as the fragile remains of their mortal body is crafted into titanic cogitator machines which can access the entire High Altar of Knowledge at will. They learn every new discovery, they feel the pulse of the machine that is the Adeptus Mechanicus, and they are the eyes and ears of the Fabricator General. As one of the High Lords of Terra, the Fabricator General is one of the twelve most powerful men in the galaxy, ruling the Imperium in the name of the Omnissiah. The Fabricator general spends his time in discussion with the other High Lords, interpreting the will of the Emperor and ensuring that the will of the Machine God is followed. Polite and non-flamatory comments are welcome EDIT: Changed the High Gothic title of the Fabricator General. Codex Imperialis says that it is Magos Mechanicus.
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Post by CELS on Oct 10, 2004 5:22:34 GMT -5
Oh, and here's my working version of an Adeptus Mechanicus structure chart. Anything you're missing or maybe something you disagree with? Comments, if you please
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