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Post by Sojourner on Jul 27, 2004 0:18:55 GMT -5
I can see some schola institutions being more predicated towards one discipline than another, but not any kind of enforced divide. It's like 'Everybody Knows' the Santissima Reclusium of the Emperor's Holy Light is by far and away the best for so and so type of adept, but they'll accept students studying any discipline
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 28, 2004 0:18:11 GMT -5
I'm all for a specialisation of the Schola Progenium around different schools or institutes that would train people to different positions in the Imperium. Orphans would be automatically included indeed.
As to who sends who. Personally I think that, akin to the way it was done for the nobility (at least in France), the eldest son would inherit the domain, the second would join the military and the third become a priest.
Personally I consider that the children probably until age 12 would be taught at home, probably by preceptors. At age 12 those that do not inherit the family fortune would be sent to the Schola until age 18, at which point they would be then shipped to even more specialised universities or colleges.
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Post by CELS on Jul 30, 2004 3:14:06 GMT -5
Well... if you're all going to insist on opening the doors of the Schola Progenium to other children than the orphans of dead servants of the Imperium, then I'll suggest that upon joining the Schola Progenium, you are considered an orphan by the Imperium. Meaning? Well, you lose all inherited titles and priveleges. If an Imperial noble sends his daughter to the Schola Progenium, she will not receive his title upon his death, nor will she receive any of his wealth.
Of course, this already applies to all the 'real' orphans of the Schola Progenium, but I just think it's rather important to note that the same applies for the rich kids who are sent to the Schola Progenium by their parents. They actually become the 'property' of the Imperium, and cannot suddenly change their mind and say "Actually, I don't think being a Commissar is for me. I'll head back to my dad's palace now."
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Post by Sojourner on Jul 31, 2004 7:39:29 GMT -5
Something I hadn't thought about, but well put, CELS.
Though, it strikes me as difficult to regulate as, for me, the 'nobility' of the Imperium by and large isn't sanctioned, but is purely a local construct.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 1, 2004 1:26:31 GMT -5
That is actually something that I had when the lesser 'sons' of the houses of the nobilitias imperialis entered into the service of the adeptus terra: they gave up family ties and, in essence, become orphans. As Sojourner points out, however, it doesn't quite work and is subject to a great deal of abuse... It's interesting enough that perhaps we can move forwards with it. Does anyone care to make a more cohesive post other than the expression of an idea (or, erm, the support of one)... ;
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Post by Brusilov on Aug 1, 2004 21:55:51 GMT -5
Considering I would argue that generally only Cadets and such would join the Schola Progenium and that, contrary to current law, the wealth is not divided between children but given entirely to the eldest son, it would be relatively easy to do so.
The fact that nobles are supposed to give up their family loyalties de jure does not mean they do de fact, leading to unofficial networks and ties and backroom politics that seems rife within the Imperium
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Post by Sojourner on Aug 1, 2004 22:56:36 GMT -5
So we have covered the orphans of Adepts, and the offspring of living citizens. What about the offspring of living Adepts? The implication is that many positions in the Adterra are hereditary, so do all offspring of Imperial servants automatically make it into the Schola?
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Post by CELS on Aug 1, 2004 23:12:40 GMT -5
I actually meant to say that offspring of living Adepts are automatically accepted by the Schola. I mean... why not? Would they otherwise be sent to some school where they would need living parents, which is suddenly forbidden once they're orphans? I know that some Adepts inherit their jobs from their parents or grandparents, especially Administratum clerks and the like, so perhaps there should be specific regulations to keep these people from sending all their children to the Schola Progenium. Otherwise, a bunch of clerks who decide that their children deserve better, might send them all to the Schola Progenium, thus robbing their office of the competence of future clerks. So instead, they'd give people whom they want to bring up children in their office some kind of contract, which specifically forbids them to send their children to the Schola Progenium.
I have another question though, about the Adeptus Mechanicus. Do these rely on graduates from the Schola Progenium? Or do they have their own schools, which are independent from the Schola Progenium?
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Post by Sojourner on Aug 2, 2004 0:48:57 GMT -5
Most definitely independent. Adepts of the Machine God are likely only recruited on forgeworlds from the indigenous population.
By what method this occurs is up for speculation but I am fairly sure it would have nothing to do with the Schola Progenium.
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Post by Brusilov on Aug 2, 2004 22:08:17 GMT -5
Training of members of the Mechanicus would certainly be independent of the rest of the Imperium as is pretty much every thing with the priesthood of Mars. The Collegia Titanica is a good example of such things.
Hence we could argue that only Adepts of certain ranks and nobles could send their children to the Schola Progenium, maybe establish fees or something like that...
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Post by Sojourner on Aug 2, 2004 23:08:57 GMT -5
Possibly a system of training levels - 'higher' adepts can send their offspring on a more advanced and respected education programme than lowly scribes.
Whether it would be possible to pay exorbitant amounts of money for an education above your standing remains for debate. I'd be in favour of such a system.
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Post by Brusilov on Aug 3, 2004 21:45:50 GMT -5
Personally I would argue for apprenticeship system for the lower ranks of the Adeptus Terra rather than sending them to a school. With that system they learn exactly what they're supposed to do in their future job and are already productive parts of the great administrative machine of the Imperium.
IMO the Imperium would only waste time to educate people they consider worth it (not such much because of their merit but because of their birth).
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Post by Tynesh on Aug 3, 2004 23:53:00 GMT -5
On the hereditary posts within the AdTerra...
...If a scribes child spends the first so many years growing up in the family with mum and dad always writing they may well become apprenticed to their parents. At such an age they are sent away to become more rounded individuals at the Schola, upon their return they may work for their parent/s until dad/mum retires/drops dead/killed by alien
Indeed this system would seem to be true for scribes and scholars that focus on special subjects. Like the scribes in the Eldar Codex (several generations) they will specialise as they grow up, already knowing the history, language, culture of a particular subject and are fully capable of coontinuing their parents work, indeed in some cases finishing what may have been started generations ago.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 6, 2004 13:44:30 GMT -5
We seem to be linking back again to the broad concept of 'status' within the Imperium... Now that it has been suggested I'm rather keen on the idea that we follow CELS' suggestion, at least here, for the expansion of the term 'orphan'. An individual going to the schola progenium is supposed to give up all 'material ties', including kinship bonds... like that is actually going to happen.
Apprenticeship would work, as Brussie states, for the lower ranks since there is the continued suggestion of 'family functions' (e.g. Wolf Blade). It's kind of opposite to the archaic apprenticeship system which is in itself quite interesting... Only those with specific 'status' and/or wealth (the Golden Rule) can sponsor their child to the schola progenium and therefore the potential of movement outside of their 'band'...
As to the adeptus mechanicus? That's something very definitely that would be kept on their own turf... Monitoring of local 'technical colleges' or whatever and then 'adoption' (forced or otherwise) into their facilities and, from there, a forgeworld...
Again, however, I reiterate the need for integration where possible.
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Post by Brusilov on Aug 7, 2004 5:38:11 GMT -5
And one must also remember that the Mechanicus rules over a waste population of Adepts whose children would probably also be enrolled into the Mechanicus and sent to the schools of the Adeptus. I would also agree that the Mechanicus would probably adopt people from outside the Adeptus if they consider they are gifted enough and represent a worthy addition.
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