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Post by Brusilov on Jul 20, 2004 20:25:19 GMT -5
New version of the IG Codex, Imperial Imfantryman's Uplifting Primer in particular have reference to such things. It is as clear as GW makes things clear, that is relatively muddy still, but it's as good as it's going to get from them anyway
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Post by Minister on Jul 21, 2004 10:53:43 GMT -5
Which just shows the dangers of such innexactitudes, as I read a Lord General as being the Sector Command rank (although the same rank may be held by persons commanding large mobile formations, for example I'm assuming Macharius's "generals" (five of them, I seem to remember?) were each Lord Generals in their own right.
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 21, 2004 21:14:25 GMT -5
In situations like crusades, Lord Generals would be nominated as commander of an entire theatre of operations (probably anywhere between one and a few systems) and a Corps of Imperial troops, while the Warmaster would remain in overall command (and probably command his own corps as well).
IIRC in the IIUP, the sector commander is refered to as Lord Militant.
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Post by Minister on Jul 22, 2004 7:33:33 GMT -5
Lord General Militant. I checked this morning
;D
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Raider
Scribe
The Anti-Christ
Posts: 53
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Post by Raider on Jul 22, 2004 11:08:15 GMT -5
Another proposal (just ranks above Colonel, since everyone seems to agree below that)
-Lord Commander of the Imperial Guard -Lord Commander Segmentum/Warmaster (Segmentum Commander) -Lord General* (Sector Commander/High Formation Commander) -Marshal (Higher Formation Commander) -General (Army Commander) -Lieutenant General (Corp Commander) -Major General (Division Commander) -Brigadier (Brigade Commander)
*Lord General's commanding a Sector recieve the title of Lord General Militant, while those involved in other operations generally only use the title Lord General.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 11:55:42 GMT -5
Interesting point about use titles there, Raider. Somewhat reminiscent of the term 'captain' surely? And completely incidentally, does that 'secundus' title still count!?
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Raider
Scribe
The Anti-Christ
Posts: 53
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Post by Raider on Jul 22, 2004 19:30:31 GMT -5
No Kage, I dont think it does. Unfortunately I've never been able to devote the time to ASP in order to do what I wanted to. So I struggle forward, occasionally contributing to the IG and updating Maeros once in a blue moon.
*Sigh*
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 22, 2004 23:44:14 GMT -5
Actually, strangely enough if the IIUP is to be believed (I'm quoting, not saying I agree), Marshal is under General... Just shows that despite their claimed knowledge of military history the GW stuff still screw up quite often...
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Post by Minister on Jul 23, 2004 1:55:40 GMT -5
I'll go with Raider here, conditional on Warmaster being a rank seperate from (and probably lower than) Lord Commander of the Segmentum.
A thought reguarding the Lord COmmander Militant of the Imperial Guard: If the positions above Lord General become specialised combined arms posts (as per Warmastars and, possibly, Lord Commanders of the Segmentae), then it could be that this individual acts as the cerimonial and/or effective head of the Imperial Guard (the actual combat units) within the Departmento Munitorium beurocracy. Just a thought.
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 25, 2004 23:51:29 GMT -5
The Lord Commander Militant has never been IMO someone who would fight and lead troops in battle even from his bunker, nor IMO would Segmentum or Sector Commander (at least usually, but Macharius had IMO a rank of Warmater). They only concern themselves with the administrative and support part of the war, never with the actual fighting. The highest rank of someone leading troops is Warmaster, after that officers only work in planning operations
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Post by Minister on Jul 28, 2004 10:21:03 GMT -5
As far as Macharius goes, I’m thinking that he came up through the ranks, and was eventually placed at the top by a feat of great skill and/or courage, but after getting there promptly got utterly bored of distance planning and manipulated circumstances in such a way as that he got to go off and smack some heads. However, despite being technically a Warmaster at this point, he was allowed to retain the title of Lord Commander Solar as a courtesy (in the same way as a former US president is still Mr. President, even though he’s not really entitled to it).
I was not suggesting that the Lord Commander Militant be a lead-from-the-front line officer with stupendous rank, merley that he would be someone who originated from the Imperial Guard regiments or staff rather than from the great houses of the Adeptus Administratum (which the Munitorium is, obviously, a part of).
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 28, 2004 21:12:04 GMT -5
oh I definitely agree with you on both accounts, especially on the fact that the Lord Commander Militant would probably be one of their own, that is IMO a staff officer with excellent knowledge of the way both the IG and the Munitorum works. That'd not mean however he ever fought on the field of battle. IMO most of them would be planners and logisticians rather than soldiers.
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Post by Sojourner on Jul 30, 2004 5:17:17 GMT -5
I'm not aware of Macharius being given the 'Warmaster' rank, I think he was just something of a loose cannon who decided that he would get stuck in. IIRC he led nine Army Groups, each under the command of a Lord General (most notably Lord General Sejanus, his brother or cousin, I forget), so the assertion of the chain of command made by Raider seems correct.
I'm leaning toward the idea that 'Warmaster' is a colloquial title with no actual place in the chain of command i.e. any Lord General or Lord Commander tasked to an active warzone is automatically referred to as Warmaster.
Outside of an active posting, either a Crusade or a Pacification, the Lord Officer remains in command only of the Imperial Guard in his assigned region - only when tasked to a warzone is the officer a 'combined arms' rank i.e. Guard, Fleet, Arbitrators and Space Marines. Outside of this ad-hoc system, the marines obviously mind their own business and the Fleet answers to its own local officership (incidentally, I imagine the Fleet to be far more autonomous than the Guard, appearing to have no Segmentum-level officers of its own)
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Post by Minister on Jul 30, 2004 9:51:04 GMT -5
The Warmaster rank is a combined arms one, one of damnable few within the Imperium, which must be finally aproved by the High Lords, and the applicant for which must be backed by at least two admirals or higher (if from the Guard, a Navy officer would need to be backed by two generals) before the position is even concidered.
A Crusade is allways lead by a Warmaster. Marachius lead a Crusade. Therefore, Marachius was a Warmaster.
And I don't recall any of Marachius's commanders being called a Lord General in the texts, but it seems a reasonable suposition.
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Post by Dazo on Jul 30, 2004 11:19:39 GMT -5
He may have been called that by others but his official title/rank was that of Lord Commander Neither do I, they were just refered to as generals CELS' Edit; Sejanus is referred to as General only in the old 3rd edition Codex: Imperial Guard!
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