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Post by Rogue Trader on Feb 19, 2004 14:52:17 GMT -5
I was reading through the Inquisition Wars trilogy the other day and it struck me how very different approaches Abnett and Watson have on the Imperiums ability to prolong peoples lives.
Abnett simply uses rejuve-drugs that make people live vastly longer lives, in some cases 300-400 years more! It would also seem that these drugs are widely available to the rich and powerful. Watson on the other hand uses something called simply "rejuvenation"(which is apparently only available to important Imperial servants) where a persons body is made young again, the problem with this is there appears to be a risk of total amnesia as the mind is also rejuvenated in the process.
I was just wondering if we were going to take stand on this? I would personally prefer Watsons idea, somehow the idea of people living 400 years more(something normally reserved for Space Marines) just doesn't ring with me... any thoughts?
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Post by malika on Feb 19, 2004 16:22:40 GMT -5
maybe both methods are used, just depends on the world and/or the recourses of the client
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 19, 2004 18:09:20 GMT -5
I'm rather keen on keeping both of them, to be honest... (And again, apologies for all-but-spamming... need to get some more work done so my time on the forum is rather limited. And non-existent next week when I'm in the laboratory...) Kage
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Post by CELS on Feb 19, 2004 19:22:47 GMT -5
I agree, we should stick with both. Remember, Abnett doesn't only mention the use of drugs, but also extensive surgery, organ transplants and bionics. I have no love for Watson's work, but from what you've said, it sounds very compatible with both Abnett's ideas and the typical 40k approach. Now... may I ask why you were wondering about this...?
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Post by Minister on Feb 20, 2004 4:38:11 GMT -5
Me, I'm in favour of the Abnet method. The idea of the nobility being able to live for centuries upps the unfairness quotient immensley and, therefore, I'm all for it.
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Post by Rogue Trader on Feb 20, 2004 10:43:55 GMT -5
Well, now that I think about it so am I, but I just don't think that life-prolongation should span several centuries (actually, in the Eisenhorn series there's one fellow who lives to almost 600 years). Obviously the nobility live longer than your average citizen, what with Imperial medicine and that, but I feel that only important Imperial officials should actually be able to live longer than two or three centuries. I honestly don't know what the point of my first post was really...
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 20, 2004 15:25:15 GMT -5
Perhaps this would be a point where we could turn to the RPG side of things to offer guidance? Traveller contains anagathic drugs with guidelines on their utilisation... GURPS Biotech would offer potentials for the use of gene theraphy and bionetic methods of life extension... And so on. It is my general guideline: if the 'fluff' does not contain the answer, then let the RPG guide you and then follow through with the implications. If the implications create something interesting, then go with them; if they are inherently contradictory, then perhaps look to something else for inspiration. Kage
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Post by Minister on Feb 20, 2004 15:32:51 GMT -5
Could you give us some sort of an idea? (Not details, but the sort of things available.)
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 20, 2004 16:17:31 GMT -5
It's a case that life-extension is possible in these systems and the extent to which it is possible might be useful... Thus, for example, GURPS Traveller's approach to anagathic drugs is, ish: Without going into too much detail, you begin to make ageing rolls at the age of 50 against each of the attributes which abstracts the characters physical and mental abilities (i.e. Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence and Health). When you reach 70 years then it's every 6 months, and every 3 months from 90... Various 'advantages' or 'disadvantages' can effect this including such things as Longevity, Enhanced Maturation and/or Lifespan, etc. Genetic engineering or re-engineering would allow the individual to bypass his age, something that the drugs will not allow... Mechanical/cybernetic intervention offers another way out, as are more extreme methods such as new bodies, braintaping, etc., all of which are for the most part out of Imperial-level technology. That is, of course, but an example. What would it mean? Well, an average person is going to from the age of 50 begin to decline slowly, two of their statistics (again this is GURPS) decreasing by 1 point per year until they are seventy. If a stat reaches 0, you're dead, so that means most people don't live to this age without medical intervention (this obviously depends upon TL and availability). After 70, all your attributes are on average going to decrease by 1 each year. This is going to be enough to 'kill' most people of old age... After 90 each attribute is decreasing on average by 2 per year, which will generally sort out most people. (The 'average person' has a Health of 10, which you roll against with 3d6, meaning that there is only a 50% chance of success.) Thus, anagathic drugs in the above example could let you live for a heck of a long time, other factors not impinging... Kage
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Post by Minister on Feb 20, 2004 17:33:42 GMT -5
Reasonable enough. I would like also to point out that just about every part of the body can be replaced in the 40K universe, either with bionics or cloning (although replacing too much of the brain does tend to greviously alter the subject's personality).
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 21, 2004 20:22:22 GMT -5
Yes, I gathered... the implications of that are quite significant, however. Plus, implantation is never going to fully get away from senescence effects... Kage
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Post by zholud on Feb 22, 2004 8:25:18 GMT -5
I think that there is no single way of juvenation process, instead the whole multitude of them are used, separately or combined. Seems that Mechanicus prefer bio-mechanic augmentics, while inquisitors use drugs and bio-parts, like Eisenhorn in Missing in Action short story. All processes have drawbacks, so you may choose if you have the money which problems you’ll prefer.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 22, 2004 13:24:33 GMT -5
Yes, exactly... Although determining just how, where and who achieves such longevity is interesting. It is one of the reasons that the 'TL' number, despite zholud's hatred of it, is there. To offer up a guide to where this might be achieved and to therefore offer up potential links between worlds, hidden trade deals, etc. To create, in fact, just the type of links that we were originally trying to do rather than creating a horrendous melee of competing 'tech paragraphs' which, while interesting, do little to sort out the numerous difficulties. Kage
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Post by CELS on Mar 8, 2004 12:59:56 GMT -5
Another question on life-prolongation.... the Chaos Space Marine that lord fenric has invented has lived for over 10,000 years. I would say this is above the capabilities of Imperial technology. Maaaaaybe some alien technology would be capable of this, but... I don't like the idea much. What do you say?
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 9, 2004 10:37:42 GMT -5
Depends on how much time the chappie has spent in the Eye, the Warp or whatever. This is the different between chronological age and 'historical age', as it were... Kage
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