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Post by Philip on Jan 4, 2005 17:25:19 GMT -5
Travel in 40K is very restricted compared to adventure universes like Star Wars/ Trek, it seems any role-play game is going to have to address where a player can and can’t go.
For example: A hive gang member can’t jump on a Star ship and head for another star system, likewise for many of the Imperium’s citizens who have duties they must perform. Unlike our world where the only real restriction is money, people aren’t free in 40K unless they have power.
Of the more powerful individuals: Rogue Traders, Inquisitors and Adeptus Mechanicus Priests (hunting for artefacts) seem to have the most leeway with regard to RPG adventure.
Space Marine (exiled) could be player characters as they are no longer tied to a chapter, but at the same time they are most likely on a quest to redeem their honour and once complete will be reabsorbed into the chapter and become an NPC.
Navigators seem a choice if they are powerful enough, but their missions are limited.
What are your thoughts on this – if you could play an RPG 40K character who would you choose?
Also do you think a security clearance system should be used, with characters collecting rights of passage (much like a list languages) which they have to carry around?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 4, 2005 18:39:46 GMT -5
Travel in 40K is very restricted compared to adventure universes like Star Wars/ Trek... Consideration of the sheer numbers and volumes concerned would seem to put such statements in doubt. If you can pay the money and people are willing to put you up in their ridiculously sized vessels, then you can go. Dedicated 'passenger liners' might be something of a rarity, but there we go. If trade is possible and likely, then so is travel. A hive gang member can’t jump on a Star ship and head for another star system, likewise for many of the Imperium’s citizens who have duties they must perform. If you have the money and capability and the world is 'tended' by a ship of some kind that is willing to take you... Furthermore the nature of the travel will be determined in the most part by the campaign, either through the use of Allies, Patrons, etc. (And, yes, these need not count the Imperium, of course. 40k does not revolve around the Imperium. But you know that!) Unlike our world where the only real restriction is money, people aren’t free in 40K unless they have power. It is important that you don't fall into the trap that everyone without power works. Indeed, even the statement that you must have money doesn't entirely work. What are your thoughts on this – if you could play an RPG 40K character who would you choose? I can think of lots of characters... The ones that you mention are just some of the better ones for multiple-campaigns (note: not multiple advetures). Also do you think a security clearance system should be used, with characters collecting rights of passage (much like a list languages) which they have to carry around? Nope. Don't see the relevance of it. Of course, being able to pull strings to acquire "your own ship" is another thing altogether.
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Post by Philip on Jan 4, 2005 18:45:04 GMT -5
Wouldn’t the only people with money in 40K be the ones with power?
If you had a patron, could they arrange papers that would allow travel?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 4, 2005 20:22:16 GMT -5
Ah, I presume that you're working on the principle that you have to receive a stamp from the adeptus administratum to be able to trave to another world? For the rich/powerful/whatever there would be no trouble... But the Imperium doesn't need to be, and is therefore not really, of the approach that you get shot if you move off planet.
Again, though, if you want trade you accept travel.
And security clearance is more to do with access to 'secrets' than travel! Where characters cannot officially go is simple: xenos worlds and those with an Inquistorial Seal. Simple.
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Post by Philip on Jan 4, 2005 20:29:53 GMT -5
There must be a form of Imperial Customs on the Solar Systems outer edge; don’t people need passports, identity cards/ papers etc?
‘stamp from the adeptus administratum’ sounds cool, right on the forehead, kinda like getting into a nightclub only more important.
I digress, passports must be needed, Intersteller travel must be a bit like going to another country in our world, surely they have checks etc, the Imperium is always at war, always looking for mutants, Psykers, radicals, cultist, wouldn’t they like to keep tabs on everyone with enough money/ power/ contacts that they can actually afford interstellar travel?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 4, 2005 22:50:20 GMT -5
There must be a form of Imperial Customs on the Solar Systems outer edge; don’t people need passports, identity cards/ papers etc? First off, I do believe that there is a form of identification used in the Imperium. The real question is one of 'jurisdiction'. For the most part a member of a world, in the traditional American model, isn't going to need any form of Imperial identification even though I would imagine it could be issued by the adeptus administratum as moderated by the dictates of the adeptus arbites and the Inquisition. With that said, I do not believe that the Imperium maintains 'customs' at the edge of solar systems. It would be highly impractical given the way that the warp jump works. The idea of (relatively) stable pathways through the warp (trade routes, frex) does go someway to increasing the chance of predicting the point of precipitation, but even then... No, customs is one of those things that is up to the Imperial Commander of a given fief/system. That the Navy can run 'spot checks' at any time - as can the adeptus arbites and the Inquisition, of course - is a given, and such inspections would have automatic authority over the laws/tariffs/whatever of any local equivalents. ‘stamp from the adeptus administratum’ sounds cool, right on the forehead, kinda like getting into a nightclub only more important. <snicker> Electattoos taken to another ludicrous extreme? It does, of course, bring up the question of authority. Then again that particular little issue has also dogged the Inquisition for quite some time, never to my satisfaction ever being answered. I digress, passports must be needed, Intersteller travel must be a bit like going to another country in our world... Again, depends on the world. One would imagine that transportation by the Imperial Fleets would require some form of Imperial documentation. Civil Fleets might be more lax, but they would be running a risk more so because even they are going to need some form of 'charter' to move from world to world. (Hence the original descriptions of a 'temporal', time-based charter that also happened to be a 'fight plan'.) ...wouldn’t they like to keep tabs on everyone with enough money/ power/ contacts that they can actually afford interstellar travel? There would be a structure in place for documentation, but let us just face it: the Imperium seemingly has a great enough problem dealing with the documentation of a million worlds, how the heck are they going to keep track of people with sufficient resources to travel to another world. Indeed, the cost of 'passage' is another issue. It would not cost the world, or even an arm and a leg, more so on a ship that is making the trip anyway. Specifically hiring a ship would do, but not transportation. It is interesting to question how much... For me it would be the equivalent of the gross earnings of a mid-level worker for a year or two. But that's just pulling a number out of the air...
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 5, 2005 8:39:27 GMT -5
The issue is that you have to somehow get a permit to pass on any vessel that's obeying the rules. The issue is permission vs. no permission, and I am absolutely certain that the Imperium would not be happy for vessels to take on any passengers who can make it through the airlocks. Therefore you're left with some sort of ticket system, whether you're paying a private captain to take you or a merchant ship. I would have thought that officially, merchant ship passes could only be obtained from Administratum offices. In which case, if you're a mutant, psyker or heretic, you ain't getting on. Civil ships are another matter (let's just say we're looking to avoid any Imperial entanglements...) where I would presume that passengers are up to the captain. Even then, you're likely going to get inspections for illegal travellers, contraband and suchlike.
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Post by Philip on Jan 5, 2005 8:53:24 GMT -5
I think the point of civil ships is interesting, as only really powerful individuals would have a warp-capable ship, and the only way to get bet one is via the Ad-Mec, so the powerful individual would have very close ties with the Imperium.
This would give that powerful individual a certain amount of leeway, which could also extended to his/ her passengers (perhaps they have a kind of diplomatic immunity and get waved through customs?).
I mean they can’t get into too much mischief with a Navigator and Astropath onboard can they?
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 5, 2005 9:29:02 GMT -5
Nobody says the owner of the ship is present on its voyages...
You may have a rather naieve merchant businessman who hires a rogue and a scoundrel to captain his ship(s)...
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 5, 2005 22:40:21 GMT -5
I think the point of civil ships is interesting, as only really powerful individuals would have a warp-capable ship... We should not get caught up on the idea specifically of power being required to get hold of a warp-capable ship. There are so many ways that one can acquire a ship, even if they are somewhat more limited - as Phillip pointed out - than in other genre. Hereditary Free Charters, for example, are given to the individual selected by the Charter holder. That individual could be an inconsequential cabin boy for all that it matters to the Charter. As long as their fuedal oath is recorded at the segmentum fortress everything is just peachy. Of course, that doesn't mean that 'power' comes with the position... "Really powerful" individuals can get hold of ships if they can pull enough strings, or they even have a string to pull, but this does not preclude alternatives that are both present in the 'fluff' and that just also 'make sense'... and the only way to get bet one is via the Ad-Mec, so the powerful individual would have very close ties with the Imperium. I would suggest that there are already enough limits upon shipping in the Imperium without haven't too add further complications. Plus, the addition of such things as the above also get you into a very specific interpretation. I mean they can’t get into too much mischief with a Navigator and Astropath onboard can they? Again, remember that a Navigator and an Astropath do not need to be present. Thus Sayeth the Law. This also has concomittant implications on the quantity of Navigators (i.e. they're not that common.) This is no longer up for discussion, since it is the most 'balanced' approach through the various editions, and I will brook no side comments... But if you consider the 'new' (well, not so new when it comes to the 'fluff' ) structure of the warp, those individuals that are more than likely to have a Civil vessel may be able to afford the contract of a Navigator. (And I still think that the new Fleet structure is a tad on the boring side, but where the 'fluff' leads I must b*tch about it... ) And that is a damned good point, alluded to above in the mention of Allies, Patrons, etc.
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Post by schoon on Jan 29, 2005 1:23:02 GMT -5
I haven't seen anything that suggests that travel in the Imperium is restricted, nor excessively regulated (though more so at larger planets and less so at fringe worlds). Even as large as the Administratum is, they don't have the resources (or desire) to monitor or regulate travel.
As for what prevents citizens from wandering, it would seem to be the "small town" syndrome, where a ganger from the underhive is so busy with his "world" that he doesn't necessarily concern himself with "the larger universe."
The 40K background is based very loosely on a feudal system, and peasants in that time weren't restricted from travel, but most wouldn't think of going further than the next villiage - and even then infrequently.
It's far more likely that a "starport" simply imposes taxes on whoever shows up, and identification is necessary only to get into higher-security area, such as a Mechanicus temple or Arbites courthouse.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 31, 2005 0:14:35 GMT -5
schoon... Again, a personal request. Stop with the whole colours thing. They give me a headache and make my grouchy. Use bold or whatever, and use colour in moderation. Please? The 40K background is based very loosely on a feudal system, and peasants in that time weren't restricted from travel, but most wouldn't think of going further than the next villiage - and even then infrequently. Yet there were poverty guidelines for residence in certain districts during the period. The cynic would point out that nothing has really changed in the modern world with regards to work permits, etc.
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Post by schoon on Feb 1, 2005 11:37:18 GMT -5
schoon... Again, a personal request. Stop with the whole colours thing. They give me a headache and make my grouchy. Use bold or whatever, and use colour in moderation. Please? Yet there were poverty guidelines for residence in certain districts during the period. The cynic would point out that nothing has really changed in the modern world with regards to work permits, etc. Sorry, old habits die hard I'll try to limit myself. Excellent point on the second bit!
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 1, 2005 19:40:56 GMT -5
The only problem there is that, generally speaking, if you're wealthy enough to get the travel in the first place the chances are that you're going to be wealthy enough to be able to afford to stay. An obvious exception are the pilgrims, of course, but they are a special consideration (arguably).
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