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Post by CELS on Dec 30, 2004 12:31:46 GMT -5
As I thought about how to structure my own texts for this forum, I wondered if it would be best to have a standard representation of all alien races in the ASP, as we do for worlds in the sector. After all, there are some things that should always be covered when describing a new race. Their origins, their society, their government, religion (or lack of religion), their physical characteristics and psychological characterstics, their military, their psykers (or lack of psykers), their susception to chaos, etc...
Does anyone else agree that it would be useful to have a standard representation of alien races? If yes, do you have a suggestion on how to structure it?
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 31, 2004 0:42:26 GMT -5
Is not an alien SR a similar product of a 'homeworld' SR for the alien race in question, ala Tir'asur? Some of the headings don't quite work but speaking on a personal idea, while the idea does have some serious merit I really don't fancy retyping the entire bugger again... Of course, perhaps that is a moot point since I'm dealing with one of the 'official races', even though I consider all GW publications upon that race to be almost entirely substandard... Darn, I promised myself I wouldn't start to b**ch about GW again today! <sigh>
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Post by CELS on Dec 31, 2004 7:41:35 GMT -5
Is not an alien SR a similar product of a 'homeworld' SR for the alien race in question, ala Tir'asur? Not at all. In an SR for a 'homeworld', a lot of background for the aliens will be almost irrelevant. It would be like discussing the origins of the Adeptus Mechanicus in my forgeworld SR. It's slightly related, but best done elsewhere. So whilst the two different types of SRs might overlap slightly, I definitely think there's need for both of them, lest the homeworld SR becomes a huge, bloated, overgrown thing. Another disadvantage of including too much information in the 'homeworld' SRs, is that for the aliens that have more than one world in the Anargo sector, you end up repeating a lot. (Explaining their origins in both SRs, etc) I know how you feel Back in the day, I wrote about Proteus before we agreed on a standard SR. Very irritating. Indeed. I don't expect to see SRs for Eldar, Orks, Genestealers, Kroot or any other official races. I don't plan to rewrite my Ork essay either. To be very specific, this thread is directed at Atlanteans, Valeoni, Chy'var, Jovan, Hosok and Aoideans. You have to make realistic goals, Kage. Try a few hours at a time
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Dec 31, 2004 8:04:38 GMT -5
I'm very much in favor of this. I have a SR of sorts set up in my Atlantean thread, but it'd be handy to have a uniform setup. I orginally modeled mine after the Chy'Var thread's setup.
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Post by CELS on Dec 31, 2004 8:49:57 GMT -5
Well, then. Glyphstone is in favour, and I think everyone else has had a chance to say a word or two. I'm going to go and suggest a layout for an Alien Standard Representation, based on what is already written for the different races. Hopefully, there should be very little, if anything, to rewrite.
1. Introduction - Very general overview of the alien race. How far are they spread across the galaxy? What does the Imperium know of them? Are they growing or shrinking in influence? Etc 2. Origins - From small furballs and insects on some insignificant rock, to an advanced race ready to conquer the stars. A look at origins evolution. 3. History - What happened after the aliens started travelling the stars. From their first explorations in the past and all the way to the present in the Dark Millennium. 4. Society and culture - This section might be difficult for some. This is where you'd describe major cultural differences in these aliens. Obviously, all aliens are expected to have cultural variety like humans, but this is where you draw a few big lines. It's also the place to describe any caste system, clan system, etc. 5. Government - Assuming that this race has a form of government that is seen all over their empire, you can write a little bit about that. If the aliens, similar to the Imperium, have a lot of worlds with totally different governments, but which share an interstellar government body, then write about this supreme government. If there's no system at all, and all the worlds are governed in a different manner without any form of supreme government, then write just that and explain how that works and why they are so divided. 6. Law and order - How do the aliens uphold law (if they have law) and order (if they have order)? Humans tend to have an infinite number of laws, enforced by dedicated law enforcing organisations and harsh punishments. Eldar do not have laws, nor do they have dedicated law enforcers. However your race solves this problem, write about it here. 7. Religion and philosophy - If this was the Imperium, you'd write about the Cult Imperialis. If this was the Orks, you'd write about Gork and Mork. If this was the Tau, you'd write about the Greater Good. Discuss their religion, if they have any, and their philosophy in lack of a religion. Or both. An important question that needs to be addressed is; What do these aliens perceive as the meaning of the universe, and the meaning of their own lives? 8. Physiology - Physical appearance, physical characteristics... Size, weight, speed, strength, average age, the softness of their skin... whatever. 9. Psychology - What personality traits (if they do have personalities) are typical for this race? Do they think as individuals or as part of a group, or both? Are they highly aggressive like the Orks, or emotionally distanced like the Eldar? You get the point. 10. Technology - This needs little explanation, I think. Compare the technology of your race to that of the Imperium or other 'official' races of Warhammer 40,000. 11. The warp - Does this race have psykers? Does it even know of the warp? How does it travel between the stars? How does it maintain interstellar communication, if it indeed has that..? Is the race susceptible to the dangers of chaos or other warp entities? 12. Military - Or lack of military. Is the race extremely militaristic like the Imperium and the Orks, or is it more peaceful and shy? Does it have dedicated armies and battlefleets? What kind of military technology does it have? Does it have a professional soldier group, or mandatory military service for everyone? And so on. 13. Diplomacy - What relationship does this race have with other races? Is it currently at war with anyone? Does it trade with other races?
Important note! This is supposed to be a sort of recipe that can be used on all the different unofficial races in the ASP. You might find it a bit limiting, and you might want to write a bit extra. Glyphstone, for example, intends to write about the Atlantean life-cycle, which is excellent. That doesn't really mean that this SR can't be used though. Just chuck stuff like that right in there. The life-cycle can be discussed under society and culture, or physiology, for example.
One thing that people might have a problem with, is that I've delayed discussion of physiology and appearance. This is deliberate. To understand their physiology and appearance, you should first read about their origins and evolution, from tiny beasts to advanced star travellers.
The same goes for other stuff that I've delayed. To understand their society and culture, you must first look at their history, for example.
That said, I'm very open for comments and criticism! What do you think?
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Dec 31, 2004 9:57:32 GMT -5
I love it. That'll be really handy. Now to go reformat the Atlanteans and add more data, I'll be back in a few days.
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Post by Destecado on Dec 31, 2004 10:27:32 GMT -5
Looks good CELS. One thin you may want to add to the Technology section is the average Tech Level at which the race operates. Another thing that might be useful is a threat assessment by the Imperium...since many parts are written from the Imperial perspective. The Threat assessment would indicate:
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Post by CELS on Dec 31, 2004 10:50:49 GMT -5
Looks good CELS. One thin you may want to add to the Technology section is the average Tech Level at which the race operates. I actually thought about that, to be honest. But for some reason, I felt that it would be useful to keep the GTL/TTL out of the text. Perhaps, like the world-SR, we could have start out with some simple facts. For example Gothic name: Jovans Original name: Cho-rra Location: Segmentum Ultima, Segmentum Tempestus Tech level: 9 Threat level: Epsilon Threat assessment would be useful, I agree. Since we're already using an Imperial classification system to assess the value of worlds (Aestimare), why not use another Imperial classification system to assess the threat of alien races? Granted, the fluff doesn't mention any such system, but that doesn't mean we can't invent one ;D If the Imperium doesn't know that they exist, then they would be rated 'Obscurus' or 'Unknown'. I also think the threat assessment should indicate their ability to damage the Imperium. For example, the Tyranids are extremely dangerous, because they have the power and the intention to destroy the Imperium. The orks are quite dangerous, but their lack of coordination makes them unable to present the same kind of threat to the Imperium. The Imperium fights them constantly, all across the galaxy, but they're not coordinated in the same way as Tyranids. The Eldar can be quite dangerous, but they have no intention on wasting all their lives to destroy the Imperium, at the moment. The way I see it, there's two different ways we can classify the aliens based on threat levels. 1) Similar to the aestimare, we use a single scale that incorporates all the considerations above. From alpha to epsilon, or something like that. 2) Similar to the tithe classifcation, we use different terms for different types of threats. The Tyranids are currently doing everything they can to destroy the Imperium. The orks are fighting everyone and everything, so fall in a different class. The Eldar on the other hand, usually fight as little as possible, and so fall in a third class. Do you agree? Which do you prefer?
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Post by Destecado on Dec 31, 2004 12:56:23 GMT -5
I prefer the scale that would be similar to the tithe classification. This seems to have the most flexibility and would allow for changes to be made as the situation changes. It may be also like the Def Con system used for nuclear war.
When a species or a certain planet reaches a given threat rating, it puts other factors into motion. Say at a given threat rating, the local Imperial governor (or other official) begins to raise IG units or puts the fleet on high alert. At another threat level, martial law is declared and PDF are mobilized.
The threat status is good, because trying to maintain an economy on a constant war time footing will be draining in the long run. there has to be some system in place that allows a planet to gear up for war or scale back down when the threat abates.
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Post by CELS on Dec 31, 2004 13:18:01 GMT -5
I agree. Let's try to figure out the structure of the classification system now, and worry about the Latin terms later. I'll start at the botom.
1 - There is nothing that suggests that this race is currently hostile to the Imperium. There might not be enough evidence to conclude that this race even exists.
2 - The aliens are isolated due to low technology or other factors, and there is no chance they will be attacking the Imperium within the next centuries. They are at the mercy of the Imperium. At the higher grades of this level, the aliens are still isolated, but are able to defend themselves to some degree.
3 - The aliens are travelling the stars freely and cannot easily be contained by the Imperium. On this level, the aliens have the means to come into contact with humans, which the Imperium considers dangerous in itself, since they are unholy xenos scum. On higher grades of this level, the aliens are in contact with humans such as free traders and rogue traders, and thus able to corrupt the Imperium through them.
4 - Alien military forces have been spotted. At lower grades, the aliens have armed security forces and small armies. At higher grades, alien warships capable of star travel have been spotted.
5 - Violent conflicts with aliens have occurred. The degrees on this level depend on the power of the aliens. At lower grades, they are undisciplined space pirates which are no match for Imperial armies. At higher grades, any observation of them is immediately reported to the sector's naval base and even neighbouring sectors.
6 - Aliens are observed in Imperial subsectors or believed to be headed for an Imperial subsector, with the intention of attacking the Imperium. This is the highest threat level. At lower grades, nearby patrols and standing armies are immediately dispatched to protect vulnerable worlds and to destroy the intruders. At higher grades, forces from the entire segmentum are mobilised to counter the threat.
Is this categorisation good?
The way this would work is like this... In the Anargo sector, Tyranids would have Threat level 1. There is nothing to suggest that Tyranids exist in the Anargo sector. Eldar are Threat level 5. The craftworld Eldar are mostly harmless, but Dark Eldar have made many major attacks on the Anargo sector, and the Imperium probably doesn't differentiate between the two in a case like this. Orks are Threat level 6, since they are constantly attacking the Castellan subsector, and are known to occupy several Imperial worlds.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Dec 31, 2004 14:05:15 GMT -5
I like it. Perhaps have 3 "sub-levels" of each, to show the differing levels of danger. I'm going to assume that this is naturally biased from an Imperial perspective, so none of us race designers should be giving ourselves 6-A designations.
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Post by CELS on Dec 31, 2004 14:16:50 GMT -5
I like it. Perhaps have 3 "sub-levels" of each, to show the differing levels of danger. Yep. I was thinking that it could be similar to the tithe-system. Extremis, Primus, Secondus, Tertius and Particular, for example. 6-Extremis would be Hive Fleet Behemoth. 3-Particular might be appropriate for Aoideans, which are a unique race of aliens that have special characteristics. 6-Tertius would be a small ork probe attack in the Castellan sub, which could be stopped by a single Navy escort. ;D That's the idea...
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Post by RascalLeader on Dec 31, 2004 19:00:02 GMT -5
Theirs nothing wrong with it but personally When I was writing my own I was very careful about the layout of my format, and I prefer my own (But then I am byiest ). I'd be the first to admit it is not perfect but it worked better then any other I could come up with. 1. Forward (I Wrote a bit of fluff here about an Inquisitor investigating them) 2. PhysiologySection A - Overview Section B – Appearance Section C - Biology Section D - Biological Requirements Section E - Interaction with their environment 3. PsychologySection A - Group Mentality ( the Central Trait) Section B – None Evolutionary Traits (Minor Traits) Section C – Motivation Section D - Emotional Framework Section E - Needs 4. SocietySection A - Government Section B - Crime and Law Section C - Work and Trade Section D - Religion and Spirituality Section E - Interactions with other races 5. TechnologySection A – Overview Section B – Biotechnology (Primary Unique technology) Section C - Wormhole Technology (secondary Unique Technology) 6. WarfareSection A – Overview Section B – Information Gathering Section C - Army Composition Section D – Weaponry Section E – Tactics 7. History(Spilt into different periods) The Reason I prefer it Like this is that in the one CELS gave he split Government, Law, Work, Trade and religion into several different sections. They are all actully part of the same thing: society. Same goes for some of the others like Physiology and Psychology sections. These things are too intertwined to just spilt them apart. Also it is much simpler then having fifteen different sections. Having 7 main sections with several sub sections of each makes things much more readable; split up into small digestable chunks. If I must I will change it to whatever everyone else decides but I will grumble about it first. This I rather liked since it had not even occured to me to give them a threat rating. However I have no idea what the chy'var will be - they could be 1 Extremis or 3 Tertius. To the majority of the Imperium forces in the sector they are little more then a Myth, on some they are a minor irritation that popps by every now and then, little more then ghosts.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Dec 31, 2004 23:46:52 GMT -5
I liked CELS's design better ,but that's just cuz it looks similar to mine. ;D RascalLeader's does seem a little easier to organize, though. As for the Atlanteans, I'm also unsure what to rate them. I'd like to give them a 5-Tertius, since armed conflict has occurred between Atlantean forces and Imperial patrols, but fights few and far between, so that'd be a little extreme. 4-Primaris would be more reasonable, since the bulk of the Atlantean's military strength is kept concealed from other races. It's not significant, but it's still quite a bit more than the scattered warships and scouts tha the Imperium has seen (and lived to report ). Once we decide which format to use, I'll reorganize my writeup to match it and post for (hopefully) final review.
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Post by CELS on Jan 1, 2005 11:58:28 GMT -5
The problem I have with your disposition, RascalLeader, is the order of things. I really think it makes sense to start with history, in order to shed some light on other aspects of their culture.
The 'forward' you wrote can easily be put under introduction.
Throwing government, law, work and trade and religion in one heap and calling it 'Society' sounds rather messy. Yes, it's all the same, but then again one could argue that politics is part of society, and that war is an extension of politics, and that psychology is also a part of society and culture. Before you know it, you have 5,000 words under one heading; Society.
You say that some things are too intertwined to split them apart, but you yourself divide them into 'sections'. So we're really doing the same thing, except that I want seperate headings for Culture, Government, Law and Order and Religion/Philosophy, just so it's easier to keep track of things.
If everyone agrees that we need fewer headings, like 10 instead of 13, then we can do the following changes; 1) Merge government, law and order 2) Divide Military into military technology and military forces and attitudes. Military technology can be discussed under technology, and military forces and attitudes can be discussed under diplomacy. 3) Merge Origin and History.
Chy'var - If the Imperium has seen them and identified them as a seperate race, then they are at least 3 Tertius. If the Imperium is not aware of the existance of the Chy'var, and have only heard of them from other sources, then they are 1.
Atlanteans - If the Atlanteans have had armed conflicts with the Imperium and the Imperial forces have lived to tell the tale, then they are 5 Tertius, I'd say.
Does this categorisation work, or is it too... vague?
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