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Post by Skabbhatt on Mar 20, 2004 18:28:46 GMT -5
I guess this is the place for this, as I have a feeling it will touch on many subjects.
So I have take on the clan tatoos of the Eldar clans so here is my view of eldar tatoos.
First of all I don't want them to be pictures. I rather see the tatoos in symbios with the body of the eldar, enchanting/exalting the beauty using lines and dots, maybe shades.
The motives would be patterns, airy patterns. Some small, alike chinese signs. Some covering an arm or two. Basically every pattern would be unique, maybe telling us something about the eldar.
But how do you make it a clan symbol? Well I was thinking themes, the theme of the Dragon Clan, for example, is militaristic, so more edges in the pattern would be appropiate and so on.
I'm also investigating the idea of implenting subtle pictures in the patterns of the Clans, a part of the pattern could be a picture is you view it right. Kinda hard to explain.
On the nature of these tatoos I was thinking something of an advanced electrotatoo, maybe able to change shape is you get it "adjusted"?
Who would have clan tatoos then? Well I think it wouldn't be that common, it's a mark of dedication, of someone actively furthering the cause of the Clan.
Well that's my initial thougts, probably got a thousand things wrong.
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Post by CELS on Mar 21, 2004 13:22:52 GMT -5
I was told by a martial arts Master that in Asia, they have tattoos that are invisible except when they come in contact with water. I've also heard of tattoos that are only visible in certain light... ( Such as, say, moonlight...  ) I'm sure Kage has already developed an idea about the Eldar clan tattoos in the Eldar Sourcebook forum, but... I imagine that the clan tattoos would serve many purposes. First, they would show one's place in the Eldar society and belonging to ones clan. Second, they should say something about the life and origins of the Eldar. Third, they might be useful for interacting with that Eldar omni-database (the name escapes me at the moment). I wouldn't want to see them too big though. A flaming tattoo starting at the neck and going down the back and down each arm doesn't exactly say 'Eldar', IMO. Necromunda gangster, more like. |
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Post by malika on Mar 21, 2004 13:26:47 GMT -5
Maybe some weird psychic tattoos...I mean when in contact with other eldar the tattoos give certain kinds of reactions towards the other ones...
Or maybe something like, that the tattoos could come to life, and the eldar could control them...but it would be more like a puppet than an actual tool, just for entertainment or something.
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Post by Skabbhatt on Mar 21, 2004 15:24:15 GMT -5
I was told by a martial arts Master that in Asia, they have tattoos that are invisible except when they come in contact with water. I've also heard of tattoos that are only visible in certain light... ( Such as, say, moonlight... ) *distributes the ol'good quartering and hanging punishment* Well I don't have the password so... and he asked me what I had for concept for Clan tatoos. Well that's would probably be some of the purpose of tatoos and not necessarily clan tatoos. And don't forget that it look pretty. Not a picture, no. But a elegant pattern, I could see. I don't know about that, IMO tatoos are a semi-permanent marker, not a skindisplay. I say you could change them, but it require a operation or apparatus. |
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Post by malika on Mar 21, 2004 15:36:28 GMT -5
but maby some psychic trick could make them alter the form of their tattoos?
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Post by Sojourner on Mar 21, 2004 16:23:18 GMT -5
Perhaps, for the Aspects at least, a full-body tattoo that's added to every time the warrior goes to war?
Naturally the new 'script' would be completely incomprehensible to humans, and perhaps even to other Eldar; perhaps only to the warrior himself. His subconscious would guide the form of the art as it is being inscribed; expressing the power of the deepest parts of his subconscious as they are roused for war again. Looking upon the Aspect tattoos of another while the Aspect is 'live' within oneself would be a deeply stirring experience, enhancing the spiritual and psychological connection with the warrior-mystic effect of the Aspect as a whole, bonding warriors of the same Aspect together in a way deeper than any non-warrior could imagine.
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 22, 2004 13:24:24 GMT -5
That last idea, Sojourner, is very reminiscent of the book by... erm, forgotten the authors name... called Hidden Echoes. I read the book years and years ago so only have a hazy recollection of it, but the individuals journey through life was - somewhat - tattooed onto their skin in an abstract form. There is a particularly gruesome scene were someone is skinned for the 'road map' that it provides... (And on a personal note, Sojourner, I think that the Aspect Shrine tattoos and the importance that you ascribe to them is a wonderful idea. It's rare that someone surprises me with an 'interesting addition' to eldar lore so... well, thank you.) I must admit that a part of me was thinking about this concept when I considered introducing the 'Clan tattoos'. Well, that and one of the races from C.S.Friedman's Alien Shore book. On the nature of the tattoos, I do not see them as psychic in origin. They are a piece of technology similar to the bodyware tattoos in R. Talisorian Games' Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. if anyone is familiar with that product. The control systems are ultimately linked through the nervous system and the 'wraithbone complex' which is so significant to individual eldar. The basic patterns, etc., can be altered by conscious (and not insignificant) effort; it is not an instant chameleoline cloak for the skin. At this point it is sufficient to say that, at present, I do not envisage all eldar having Clan tattoos especially since the technology that it employs is incredibly useful for Outcast Ways... Of course, that is an argument for making them incredibly common as well. With regard to their form, I like many of the ideas thus far presented. I agree with Skabbhatt when they said that they were not pictures per se, not runes of eldar writing such as those indicated with the Aspect Warrior images by Goodwin... Rather they will be thematically related to the iconography of the Clan in question. Spider clan might have organic curves, while Dragon clan tends towards sharper patterns. Phoenix Clan might tend towards more 'colours', etc. As to their location? Again, I'm agreeing with Skabbhatt on this one. Guess I'm overtly fond of the Dax imagery from Star Trek: Deep Space 9 (and before you say it, I'm not an ST 'fan' but for some reason have collected much imagery/lore from the various series... not quite sure how :-\ ), with the 'dappling' effect on the and near the hairline. So something along the lines of that level of subtelty. Of course, I also envisage more prominent and focussed imagery perhaps including definite eldar runes under certain occassions. Again the Aspect Warrior springs to mind... Here the message is important. Whereas before you state with at least some subtelty your general outlook to eldar culture and perhaps even sub-philosophies, with more prominent tattoos you're making more prominent statements. Creating the basis of the tattoos is going to be 'easy' (assuming that you can draw, of course). We need a good, solid picture of male/female eldar shoulders/neck/head. Additional pictures of appendicular limbs could also be useful, but good luck to the 'ole hand-drawing... :-\ To these would then be added 'tattoos' of varying types. Anything from 'simple' Clan icons to more complex versions representing the life history of the individual and their interaction with the Clan or what-not. This latter of course draws from Sojourner's suggestions. Hmmn... I could ramble about this for ages, but instead I best finish the cup of tea and go teach people how to kill each other. Kage |
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 23, 2004 4:13:19 GMT -5
I've just re-found (or rather took the time to look for it ) a project that I was involved in but which my interest died out when the wargame began to dominate. Anyway, the opening picture of the CWEO project is one that I remember having an undue influence on the concepto of Clan tattoos when combined with the other sources mentioned above... Anyway, here's the opening piccie: Kage |
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Post by Caladors on Mar 23, 2004 4:25:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure that eldar would have tatoos i think it more likely that they would have the same opinions as humans some see them merely as a taint in the body which is expencive (well maybe less expencive for them) but i see the same diversty that humans have for example some people may have there belifes written into there backs so only those whom they sleep with can see there true belifes, clan tatoos, wo/manhood tatoos, relgious tatoos, military tatoos (rank, file number of kills battles performed in).
and i think there styles should be as many and varied as humanitys. some eldar may use pychic resonance tatoos that glow maybe there even protective runes that can only be seen by pychers or if powers are used on them or used by them.
i think that the would at least be as varied as us if not more so think that people shouldn't limit the eldar.
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 23, 2004 4:42:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure that eldar would have tatoos... Not all eldar would, at least necessarily. and i think there styles should be as many and varied as humanitys. The overall point is that the ones were are discussing are a manifestation of culture, not specifically personal body/art. some eldar may use pychic resonance tatoos that glow maybe there even protective runes that can only be seen by pychers or if powers are used on them or used by them. This is an entirely separate phenomenon, and not something headed under "Clan Tattoos". You might want to point your browser to the RPG forum and the "Psionics, Magic and the Divine" thread, however... i think that the would at least be as varied as us if not more so think that people shouldn't limit the eldar. I personally don't see any limitation, only refinement with a specific concept... It is strange, however, since I've seen this argument used before. People ask for more information but when something is posted they then say that it is limiting. Strange, that! Kage |
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Post by Skabbhatt on Mar 23, 2004 13:30:41 GMT -5
On the nature of the tattoos, I do not see them as psychic in origin. They are a piece of technolog ... The control systems are ultimately linked through the nervous system and the 'wraithbone complex' which is so significant to individual eldar. The basic patterns, etc., can be altered by conscious (and not insignificant) effort; it is not an instant chameleoline cloak for the skin. Almost exactly as I envisioned it, a kind of electrotatoo basicaly. But what is an significant effort? An hour of fine psychic and mundane calibration by a professional is my suggestion. And the idea of tatoo-artist/shaman just speaks to me. I agree, for me clan tatoos (maybe all?) are an agressive statement of opinion, not something to be taken lightly. And we don't wanna make the Eldar an totally tatooed race... Glad you share that opinion, for the Spiders I have an idea of complicate pattern of intwined lines, like the lines of fate. Maybe done by an tatoo-artist in trance? Can you please explain what you mean by 'colours'? 30 second of googling later...You mean like this? If so, yes thats the subtelty I was looking for. Agreeing very much, you could make an analog to our society; a small celtic band around your arm does state something else then a fullblown skeleton on your back that is holding a burning flag... *gulp* I really suck at making clean pictures, but I will take a shot at it, and you always got Photoshop...  Yep found that during my "scouting tour" looking for inspiration. It's a fine looking picture, but personally I think the tatoo could be a bit thinner then that one. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 26, 2004 8:53:42 GMT -5
Almost exactly as I envisioned it, a kind of electrotatoo basicaly. But what is an significant effort? An hour of fine psychic and mundane calibration by a professional is my suggestion. And the idea of tatoo-artist/shaman just speaks to me. I'm more for self-alteration through meditation myself, something that takes days/weeks of meditation. I agree, for me clan tatoos (maybe all?) are an agressive statement of opinion, not something to be taken lightly. And we don't wanna make the Eldar an totally tatooed race... Yep, definitely. After all Auric and Athenys are, I believe, not mentioned as being tattooed. Then again, the tattoos are elective in many ways: you can chose to have them and you can chose to present them visually if you do have them. Everything depends on the situation at hand... Glad you share that opinion, for the Spiders I have an idea of complicate pattern of intwined lines, like the lines of fate. Maybe done by an tatoo-artist in trance? You really do like the idea of a tattoo-artist! I'm personally against it if for no other reason than the 'electrotattoo' effect is a technology and is not necessarily permanent, or at least it can be changed. Of course, there is also the idea of 'magic' and it's integration into the body through more permanent tattoos, but that's another topic entirely. (And one that I'm interested in since it pertains to one of the key concepts that I'm getting hamstrung on at the moment: the relationship between 'psionics' and 'magic' in terms of representing psykers in the 40k universe... Check out the RPG board for more information.) Can you please explain what you mean by 'colours'? Red, blue, orange... You know: colours! For some reason I envisioned that the other tattoos didn't really go in necessarily for extensive use of colour. This is an inherent bias since I really don't like coloured art (i.e. prefer pencil drawings over colour paintings, or whatever). It has a raw state that I just love... There's probably a metaphysical/socio-psychological statement in there, but don't bother telling me. I'm currently empathising with song lyrics so anyone who has done the same knows exactly the state of mind I'm in! 30 second of googling later...You mean like this? Kind of, but more the image from CWEO that I posted the link to. Something which can be obvious, but doesn't necessarily have to. Agreeing very much, you could make an analog to our society; a small celtic band around your arm does state something else then a fullblown skeleton on your back that is holding a burning flag... With the interpretation itself varying depending on the approach of both the decorated individual and a person wearing them... I have some tattoos and I know that everyone interprets them differently! *gulp* I really suck at making clean pictures, but I will take a shot at it, and you always got Photoshop... Well, we'll see what you produce! Do the kind of thing that I have in mind and you might end up getting the coveted (you didn't know that it was before now!) artists position on the "Eldar Sourcebook" board. Yep found that during my "scouting tour" looking for inspiration. It's a fine looking picture, but personally I think the tatoo could be a bit thinner then that one. I think that's the point: self-expression. Kage |
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Post by Skabbhatt on Mar 26, 2004 12:22:19 GMT -5
I'm more for self-alteration through meditation myself, something that takes days/weeks of meditation. Now, I can see that, but somehow I think all eldar have something better to do then spend days/weeks to meditate on the shape of their tattoos... Well it could still be permanent, and the tattoo-artist/shaman ties nicly into the blend of the warp and technology the eldar are know for. Then can you be so kindly to explain for me why in the seven pains of Locus Askelon you wrote 'colours' insted of colours? Well... I perfectly agree and hold the same preferance. Ohh a carrot! Now what exactly is the "Eldar Sourcebook" board?  I'm just thinking that not so broad line(s) would express as much. And, IMO, would have looked better. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 26, 2004 17:43:38 GMT -5
Now, I can see that, but somehow I think all eldar have something better to do then spend days/weeks to meditate on the shape of their tattoos... <grin> This will be the same eldar with an average lifespan at least over 600 years? And whose minds work much faster than that of humans...? No, I think that they're going to have plenty of time to do the things that they're after! Well it could still be permanent, and the tattoo-artist/shaman ties nicly into the blend of the warp and technology the eldar are know for. It does? Nope... I'm not going to go for permanent tattoos at this juncture, at least not as "Clan Tattoos"... Then can you be so kindly to explain for me why in the seven pains of Locus Askelon you wrote 'colours' insted of colours? I tend not to jump to assumptions with regards to the visual spectrum of the eldar... Well... I perfectly agree and hold the same preferance. Fairy snuff. Ohh a carrot! Now what exactly is the "Eldar Sourcebook" board? The only password-locked board on this forum where not even the Mods are allowed! I'm just thinking that not so broad line(s) would express as much. And, IMO, would have looked better. But broad lines would themselves be an expression, would it not? For the individual anyway... Kage |
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Post by Skabbhatt on Apr 1, 2004 11:49:45 GMT -5
Well of course they got the time but the question is if they doesn't have something else they have/want to do? It's a bit wasteful where they can 'invent' an easier way. Of course we could have both. One needs 'training' and dedication, a mark of the dedicate. Good for clan tattoos and aspect/path tattoos. And one for decorative purposes, simply put. Okidoki. *shrugs* A password protected wasteland?  ;D Well yes, but so would not-so-broad lines be too. Clicky on the linky 'cause da base is pretty much done. |
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;D