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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 27, 2003 15:33:26 GMT -5
One of the more obvious aspects of dealing with the 40k universe is that it primarily concentrates around military technology (i.e. the wargame). Obviously in the long-term military technology will have an impact on civil technology and depending on the culture there might be little difference, but there is still the limitations of the 'fluff' on this matter... In creating Tir'asur I'm obviously going to be detailing not only the non-military technologies (including styles of architecture, etc.) but also those that are separated from the normal imagery of the eldar, i.e. that of the craftworld. But how are these to be represented? Is the colony world going to be 'wood elf' inspired, i.e. rustic. Obviously not to the extent of the Exodites, but with their cities integrated into the natural environment or, even, shaped like that natural envirnment? Or what about a pristine environment with low-impact "grav-cities" which float above the surface? (I'll try to remember to attach a picture of one potential from the Aslan Soucebook by GDP...) Perhaps it would be best to ask what concept imagery springs to mind when you think of eldar colony worlds!? Kage
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Post by Farseer Kythil on Dec 27, 2003 17:16:14 GMT -5
Ok here is what springs to mind when I hear 'Eldar Colony World':
The world itself will be very peaceful, with most of the natural scenery intact (think unspoilt mountain forest style of scenery) with small wraithbone buildings dotted about the landscape. The wraithbone buildings would have similar appearance to natural objects and I like the idea of gravitic ‘cloud cities’ floating above the planet. Unlike the Exodites the CWE would have access to more advanced technology, so the key is to get the colony world to mirror this difference. We don’t want to be creating additional Exodite worlds.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 27, 2003 21:06:07 GMT -5
...We don’t want to be creating additional Exodite worlds. That is not something that I could, I feel, ever be accused of. Well, assuming that the person making such an accusation was sane. Your suggestions broadly mirror those of my own, but let me ask you with regards to the imagery of a single settlement: What would you feel this settlement, something not too important, would take the form of? Kage
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Post by Farseer Kythil on Dec 28, 2003 6:24:45 GMT -5
Let me ask you with regards to the imagery of a single settlement: What would you feel this settlement, something not too important, would take the form of? I would see a settlement that has minimal effect on the natural surroundings. In a single settlement I'd imagine 20-30 buildings of similar design either arranged in a geometric arrangement or scattered apparently at random around the area. The Geometric Arrangement: In the centre I would imagine seeing something along the lines of communication/webway portal. Aranged around that would be the houses for the 'village elders' the Eldar that have been appointed with the task of running the settlement. Going further outwards the main settlement itself housing the rest of the population, with a ring of farms on the very outside. The Scattered Arrangement: Again in the centre of the settlement is the comms/portal buildings with the other buildings arranged in a seemingly random design (instead using a form of alien logic which focuses on the central buildings) and the farms are located on the richest ground in the area.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 28, 2003 10:02:30 GMT -5
I would see a settlement that has minimal effect on the natural surroundings. <grin> Yep. I must admit that I've been watching some of the special features on the original Lord of the Rings film where it discusses them creating the Rivendel set... Kind of sticks in your mind! In a single settlement I'd imagine 20-30 buildings of similar design either arranged in a geometric arrangement or scattered apparently at random around the area. Why such a small settlement? Or maybe not... how big do you envisage the average population of such a settlement? What is the logic behind the presence of the settlement? In the centre I would imagine seeing something along the lines of communication/webway portal. Aranged around that would be the houses for the 'village elders' the Eldar that have been appointed with the task of running the settlement. Remember that as a craftworld colony it would maintain the same social structure as the craftworld eldar, not the rustic Tolkien imagery of wood elves or even Exodites. Going further outwards the main settlement itself housing the rest of the population, with a ring of farms on the very outside. They're craftworld eldar... do they really need to farm? Kage
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Post by Farseer Kythil on Dec 28, 2003 10:12:58 GMT -5
Why such a small settlement? Or maybe not... how big do you envisage the average population of such a settlement? It was a random number but I don't see one building for every Eldar more like a building for every Eldar family. What is the logic behind the presence of the settlement? To be honest I haven't given this aspect of the settlement much thought. Remember that as a craftworld colony it would maintain the same social structure as the craftworld eldar, not the rustic Tolkien imagery of wood elves or even Exodites. And so the 'village elders' would take the form of seers They're craftworld eldar... do they really need to farm? Why not? I don't really envisage a race that values life and its may gifts to be using an artifical food replicator style gizmo. Admittedly they would have some automatic farming opperation but I still say they farm instead of artifically replicating their food.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 28, 2003 10:35:17 GMT -5
It was a random number but I don't see one building for every Eldar more like a building for every Eldar family. I do not see the family as being at all important to the eldar. For me the lineage is an integrated part, yes, and one which can translate to status within society. But it is not something that has the importance as it does, say, in human society. Children are raised communually and the concept of the Clan is based upon political/philosophical stance rather than kinship-based... (And, as such, an individual eldar can belong to many Clans throughout their life...) To be honest I haven't given this aspect of the settlement much thought. The most obvious suggestion, then, is that it relates to the concept of the craftworld 'area', whatever that might be. I really should try and get a copy of "Walking the Infinite" short story up in the fiction board so that I can give some insights into my... erm... insights into eldar society. It's not great 'fluff' since I tend to be overly-verbose, but there we go. And so the 'village elders' would take the form of seers Depends on the nature of the settlement. Remember that the 'political structure' of the settlement will in some way mimic that of craftworld society. Seers are not the sole leaders of eldar society and, arrogantly, I see any argument which uses this as a basis to be inherently flawed. Why not? I don't really envisage a race that values life and its may gifts to be using an artifical food replicator style gizmo. That's a good response. The 'back to nature' approach does have its place in eldar culture, for me. But it doesn't mean that they must be defined by that image. Horticulture, agriponics, etc., which produce food for large numbers would also work... Kage
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Post by Farseer Kythil on Dec 28, 2003 10:43:13 GMT -5
I do not see the family as being at all important to the eldar. For me the lineage is an integrated part, yes, and one which can translate to status within society. But it is not something that has the importance as it does, say, in human society. Children are raised communually and the concept of the Clan is based upon political/philosophical stance rather than kinship-based... (And, as such, an individual eldar can belong to many Clans throughout their life...) Then we will work with the clan system then. I really should try and get a copy of "Walking the Infinite" short story up in the fiction board so that I can give some insights into my... erm... insights into eldar society. It's not great 'fluff' since I tend to be overly-verbose, but there we go. Any insight is better than none. Seers are not the sole leaders of eldar society. Not once did I say that the 'seers are the leaders' I merely implied that as a member of the upper levels of Eldar society they would be chossen to look after the colony. That's a good response. The 'back to nature' approach does have its place in eldar culture, for me. But it doesn't mean that they must be defined by that image. Horticulture, agriponics, etc., which produce food for large numbers would also work... Hence the 'automatic farming opperation' statement in my last post.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 28, 2003 18:26:34 GMT -5
Not once did I say that the 'seers are the leaders' I merely implied that as a member of the upper levels of Eldar society they would be chossen to look after the colony. My apologies, but I felt that it was implied. As, indeed, you're implying that Seers enjoy an automatic improved status, i.e. 'upper levels of Eldar society'. This is not necessarily the case. A tripartite council system exists for me between the Seers, Ancestors and Clan. I would imagine, however, that it would be unlikely for a individual settelement to contain a microcosm of that government system, however. There would, of course, be a 'capital' that is captive to the craftworld... but that is a story for another time. Kage
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Post by Farseer Kythil on Dec 29, 2003 5:46:58 GMT -5
My apologies, but I felt that it was implied. As, indeed, you're implying that Seers enjoy an automatic improved status, i.e. 'upper levels of Eldar society'. This is not necessarily the case. As evident from this confusion the structure of the Eldar's government may need some clarification, as this conversation has cropped up too many times.
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Post by CELS on Dec 29, 2003 8:48:23 GMT -5
The family vs clan thing is greatly dependant on the origin of the colony, e.g. the craftworld. As I'm sure you're both aware, the Saim-Hann are very obsessed with families, while other craftworlds are not. Heh, feels kinda weird trying to contribute to the discussion when I'm sure I don't know half as much about Eldar as you guys Never stopped me before though...
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 29, 2003 8:58:49 GMT -5
I'm going to reply to the last question/point on another thread rather than taking this too far OffT. I'm more concerned here with specific imagery that can be used as a basis for creation, in this thread at least... Kage
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Post by CELS on Dec 29, 2003 9:40:14 GMT -5
Ah, yes, forgive me.
When I think about what an Eldar world would look like, I don't see a seemingly untouched planet with some Eldar buildings dotting the landscape. I see the Eldar perfecting the relationship between nature and technology, and a world where oceans have been born, mountains raised and canyones carved by the Eldar. I imagine that these worlds have have sights which you would not see anywhere else in the galaxy. A huge mountain in the middle of great plains, with waterfalls over a kilometer long falling into caves that lead to underground rivers.
The world would be built around the buildings, and not the other way around. The Eldar (and Elves) have always been masters of shaping nature, and their colonies should really, really reflect that. As for the Wood Elf-thing where they live in harmony with nature without changing anything... I think this may hold true for some Eldar, like the Saim-Hann or perhaps the Exodites.
So what would the cities look like? Artificial waterfalls, lakes, rivers and forests between, on and under the buildings. Impossible rock formations in the shape of runes, and buildings on strange cliffs held up by grav engines perhaps?
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Post by Farseer Kythil on Dec 29, 2003 9:58:03 GMT -5
That's some interesting points and I have to agree with the imagary but mountains in the shape of runes...I'm not so keen on, however there is no reason that runes couldn't be carved into the mountains rather than from the mountain.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 29, 2003 10:14:54 GMT -5
<grin> Perhaps you should direct this comment to the government thread in this board? To briefly answer the question, some familial lineages have become associated with specific Clans but that is not the important feature... Hmmn, which borders on the technologies employed by the pre-Fall eldar. In general terms, though, I agree. Maybe not on the planetary/geological scale, but at a smaller level definitely. Most definitely... and the one example where you really might have multiple habitable worlds within a single system! Again, agreed... Just not on the planetary scale for the current craftworld eldar. Less a living in harmony but more a lack of imposition. Kage
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