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Post by Destecado on Nov 22, 2004 13:05:36 GMT -5
I think I may have found a solution for habitation of some water worlds or to provide stable platforms for the Imperium to use as bases on water worlds. Since I don't have any stats worked out yet for this style of vessel, I decided to post it in General Discussion rather than in the Factory Forum. The technology exists currently in a vessel built by the Scripps Institute of oceanography. If is called the FLIP (Floating Instrument Platform) It is actually more of a huge specialized buoy than an actuall ocean going vessel. FLIP is designed with hinged equipment that can be used with the vessel in either its horizontal or vertical position. To switch to the vertical position, FLIP is towed to a research site where ballast tanks are flooded with 1,500 tons of sea water to "flip" it(while scientists and crew literally "walk up the walls" to stay upright). With only 55 feet (17 meters) of the vessel above the surface and the remaining 300 feet (91 meters) extending into the stable water column, scientists can continue with their research with minimal surface motion disruption (the platform is as boiant as a cork and more stable than any boat). At the end of the experiment (which may last up to 35 days) compressed air is blown into the ballast tanks, and the vessel returns to its horizontal position. I highly recommend visiting the Scripps Institutes Site about the FLIP. It has some great pictures of the vessel as well as flash animation of the repositioning process (moving the platform from a horizontal to verticle postition). This would be the ultimate mobile home for water worlds. Such vessels could serve as platforms for for fishing fleets or pehaps for even entire floating communities. If storms strong enough to effect the upright platforms were forcast, the enrite community could be moved to a new location by returnng to a horizontal mode and sailing out of the path of the storm. With the technologies of the 40k Universe, these platforms could perhaps be made much larger. The could also maybe have engines so that they could travel under their own power. whate are people's thoughs?
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Post by CELS on Nov 22, 2004 14:26:25 GMT -5
Very interesting, Destecado. What water worlds do we have in the Anargo sector already that may benefit from this technology? Looking at my own worlds, Nagoma is right out the window. The people living on the oceans are very poor, and their ships are usually built from various salvage and the hulks of their enemies. They wouldn't really waste resources for extreme stability.
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Post by Dazo on Nov 22, 2004 15:48:39 GMT -5
That is so cool, but would be inapropriate for corionis and Seleca, as they build in shallow water directly into the sea floor. Kolkhoz may be a candidate, but their cities don't sail away from a storm they submerge. I do have a couple of watery moons that may benefit, and then again corionis does have those freelance harvesters, they might find this useful.
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Post by Philip on Nov 23, 2004 10:47:36 GMT -5
Hmm, I always thought that Water Worlds had giant platforms like massive Oil-Rigs (Mega-Rigs).
Cities could be made up of many Habitat Mega-Rigs linked together into a net system (heavy cable under the sea surface) and other solitary Work Mega-Rigs used for drilling and mining (all built to STC design, ahem.)
Admittedly, this design is more for the imageā¦
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Post by RascalLeader on Nov 23, 2004 19:03:43 GMT -5
it would be usfull but only on world with a high enoght technology level to build the things. I am sure even on more primative world the problem could be got around by simple drums filled with air that float on the surface. After all its how rafts are made on adventure holidays, it shoudl work large scale (if rather unstable).
However the picture you gave might be helpful for my own world, which while is a swamp is mostly water.
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Post by Larandil on Nov 27, 2004 10:55:30 GMT -5
The effort to construct and maintain stable habitat platforms only makes sense if they really need to stay in position ... like offshore oil rigs. For anything else, fleets of ships are probably better off.
On a world with a planetary ocean and no solid ground, the challenge of building a floating spaceport should not be underrated ...
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Post by Destecado on Nov 27, 2004 12:31:24 GMT -5
The construction of ships would be no less daunting. Such a platform need not be constructed on the surface of a water world. Fabrication probably takes place off world, with final assemble taking place on site. Once this platform is completed, it can serve as both a drydock and fabrication facility for other vessels.
Actually, the dry dock at sea idea may bear some further consideration. The platform stays stable because it floats on the water column in its lower half. It can raise or lower itself, by chaninging the level of the water in its water tank.
If too much water is released, the platform will become top heavy and tip back towards a horizontal position. There may be some give and take between these points where if a cradel was lowered to water level (or just below it, depending on the draft of the boat) that the platform could raise ships out of the water.
This might be a specialized dry dock platform (or several acting in concert) that are made to raise ships out of the water in the open ocean, so that they may be worked on...the system is almost like an enormous hydrolic lift (like they use in car repair shops), but instead of raising a piston, the entire rig raises and lowers in the water.
It would serve as a foot hold or "beach head" on a world where no dryland may exist. If a water world had small islands or land masses, these platforms could be constructed there and then positioned as mobile bases out in the ocean away from any land mass.
I'm also not talking about a FLIP the size of the existant ship, the ones that I am refering to would be the size of a large super tanker (300 meters or about a quarter mile in length). You could also increase the diameter of the cylinder that extends below water, thus increase the size of the water column...allowing more of the structure to be above water.
Another thought would be to increase the size of the cylinder, but make it more like a submarine. You would still have a large section that fills up with water, but there would also be room for watertight compartments below the waterline. If the platform must operate horizontally it would have stabilizing planes (like on submarines) that fold out.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Dec 6, 2004 5:07:18 GMT -5
Not sure if I have anything to contribute, but might as well try.... That horizontal/vertical rig is neat, and got me thinking as to other water-living-related ideas. -Food: Giant nets hanging underneath, scooping up fish/plankton/whatever to feed the population? It'd need to be supplimented with offworld food or hyrdopnic plants, because there's only so much fish in the sea.. Propulsion: How would really big things like that get around? I suppose really big propellors, like supertankers, but the 40K universe has so many more possibilities. Giant "solar sails" that both catch winds and absorb light for power? Some sort of turbine that harnesses water motion underneath the vessel?
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Post by Destecado on Dec 6, 2004 15:23:22 GMT -5
Propulsion
Instead of relying on propellers for propulsion I was thinking more of a water jet system. If any of you have seen the movie or read the book The Hunt for Red October, you will know that it describes a new propulsion system in use on the red October called a Magnetohydrodynamic Drive.
A working drive of this type does not currently exist, but the drive itself is not a work of fiction. The description is taken from a concept that had been developed by Lockheed Martin for the Navy.
For those that have not read the book, the drive works as foolows:
A pair of superconducting coils produce a strong magnetic field in a gap where seawater can flow perpendicular to the field. In addition, an electric field is generated perpendicular to the seawater flow using a pair of charged plates. The magnetic, electric field, and electrically conductive seawater interact, causing a force to be exerted on the seawater causing it to move through the gap. The reaction force from the moving seawater produces thrust.
I'm still trying to locate the mathmatical calculation for the drive to see if there is a threshold of speed that the craft must attain before engaging such a drive or if it can do it from a dead stop. If it can do it from a dead stop, then manuvering ports may be placed along the spi at intervals to allow latteral movement and to aid in turning the vessel.
Gimbals
This is adevice that permits a body to incline freely in any direction or suspends it so that it will remain level when its support is tipped. On board ships, gimbals are used to keep the navigation compass upright, so that it is not thrown off by the movement of the ship. Gymbals are also seaing use in anti rolling gyros on vessels to prevent them from capsizing.
Since the platforms will need to transition from horizontal to verticle positions, I envision each compartment being on a set of gymbals so that as the ship moves from horizontal to verticle (or vice versa), the compartment remains level. There would be two sets of access ways and ladders (one for when the ship is verticle the other for horizontal).
Each compartment is now seperate and distinct from the others as well as being water tight. This should improve safety of the vessels. The compartments are seperated from the outter hull so even if the outter hull is punctured, it is not a guarantee that the inner water tight compartments will be affected.
The compartments may not save the ship from sinking in cases of catostrophic damage, but the may increase the amount of time it takes for the ship to sink, buying the crew more time to be rescued.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 6, 2004 23:23:20 GMT -5
Incidentally, is anyone familiar with the 'Aquarius' concept from the First Millennial Foundation? This is, for me, about one of the 'coolest' images for marine cities that I have yet seen. Oh, and very eldar.
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