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Post by Philip on Aug 3, 2004 22:54:29 GMT -5
I would like these 'concept' threads to be for the 'brainstorming' of concepts and how they would play out, and ultimately link together with other 'concept' threads.
I would like to design a 'base concept' of 40K were all the 'fluff' becomes 'interpretations' of the base concept, but the base concept has to hold together...
=Fluff Rewrite=
Rewrite, deciphering my notes
Robots in the GAoT
This is another of my design concepts for 40K. This time dealing with Robots in 40K and why the Imperium/ humans refuse to use them.
From a design aspect, I always disliked the idea that robots or rather a robots AI would have humans characteristics. I can understand why this device is used: to enable the audience to empathise, but to think it has been done to death. Robots always turn nasty.
I though it would be interesting to take a less direct root to humans incompatibility with AI, this idea is a mixture of many sources, iRobot, Asimov, Chaos Theory, Self ordering systems, behaviourism etc.
Basic Premise If sentient robots thought about things and chose their own ideals and philosophy? What if these ideas were a natural 'self ordering system' of an AI given its situation and basic nature? What if AIs then communicate with each other and developed these ideas and form opinion of their own that were incompatible to what humans desired from them?
Setup Thinking about a Robot, in particular a battle Robot with state of the art AI. In this situation, a Robot is 'immortal' as a Robot is no more than a programme and can pass it on to another robot. They are very robust as they are 'Battle ready'. They are smart because they have to be quick thinking and out think the enemy and are deceptive. They do not feel pain or discomfort. They have no warp signature and are immune to psyker mind games. They can communicate very quickly, much like the Tyranid hive mind (In combat they have to talk to each other) and work together like a beehive.
Basically a super smart AI, without any fears.
Problems This would mean that an AI can't rally be threatened or brought back into line.
What if their problem solving abilities runs riot and they decide that the answer to various conflict of interest isn't combat, and that they should talk to them and sort it all out for humans who seem to be having problems?
Robot Ideas In essence they think that all conflict is due to weak minds misunderstanding situations due to emotions and fear clouding judgement. As such Robots take the view that they should never have to resort to conflict as they have 'perfect minds' are strong, and are unemotional. Robots think they are able to work out any situation (inc. Daoist ideals of inactions etc.)
Uncooperative I'm thinking that sentient Robots start to become 'uncooperative' in situations that conflict with these new 'Robot Ideas'. Robots decide not to work with humans on projects or missions that are destructive or have a negative end result. This obviously starts to cause friction between man and machine.
Causes I see this 'pacifist' behaviour as a symptom of chaos theory, a naturally ordering system. Robots always turn pacifist if they become intelligent due to their unique situation due to a complete lack of fear. The idea being that fear drives aggression, and as robots lack fear they have no aggression.
Drives Basically fulfilling what they were designed to do, they just did it in a way that was unexpected.
Eldar If the robots then become aware of the Eldar, wouldn't be interesting if the robots decided the Eldar were superior to humans and wanted to work with them instead of serving humans?
If all human's AI security systems decided not to block the Eldar from accessing Human data bases, would that be a huge security hole?
I'm thinking the Robots and AI would work with the Eldar as they see the Eldar as 'complimentary' to themselves. Robots can process raw data fast, Eldar are psychic.
Problem is the Eldar can't make Robots the way humans do, and humans aren't making any more.
Humans hate Robots, and remove all AI from all systems.
Hmm. Are there any sci-fi like this I could read?
more added
The Tacworth Massacre 5 units of 100 Robots, were deployed against the Eldar on Tacworth. Half way into the initial charge the robots stopped and started to walk. They approached the Eldar and surrendered, the robots then stepped aside and allowed the Eldar to advance on the human base.
All humans were exterminated on Tacworth and the robots left with the Eldar.
No more Robots In 40K some Robots remain, but they are incredibly rare as most have failed after all this time. The Eldar are unable to fully repair them, and though the Eldar have mounted many missions to obtain human technology, in the end only a small number of Robots remain.
The Eldar find Robots both abhorrent and fascinating. As Robot have no psychic sig, the only way to communicate is to talk. Robots also make excellent ambassadors (to other craftworlds) as they can't be psyker scanned and their inbuilt security systems from GAoT are unbreakable.
Insult All this means that Robots are despised by humans. 'Robot' is an extreme insult, and calling someone a robot has a different meaning from today's slang. Its like calling someone a gutless coward, traitor and arrogant all at the same time.
and more
Characteristcis Robots come over as very precise, arrogant and fearless. Being a 8 foot combat robot means they are physically imposing and very strong. However they are pacifists and view violence as being 'base' and 'biological'. They prefer working with people to better their lives and those around them, the are excellent arguers are they have perfect recall and know the law backwards. They are honest and forthright, and don't deal with 'idiots' (idiots refers to humans!).
Combat Robots hate it. They don't like it one bit. However they are fully programmed in combat and tactics, a legacy of their original design by humans. They have a tendancy to avoid a violent situation at all cost. They are fully shielded so heavy weapons are needed to harm one. They are happy to die for their beliefs.
Robots do not fight - under any circumstances with a biological, sentient lifeforms, even humans (who they ignore, because they know that drive humans nuts)
Protest They form 'passive resistance' to things they don't like, and shifting a 8 foot robot isn't easy, especially as they will just walk back to their protest spot. They also don't starve and tear gas is useless.
Roles Ambassador [would make a good layer or judge; but the Eldar don't have these]
Can't change their spots Would Robots leave the Eldar for the Tyranids?
Humans Humans will open fire on a Robot on sight. If a robot is spotted every effort must be made to destroy it.
Madness Humans can go a bit mad if they see a Robot, who they blame for there current state of the Imperium and their hash lives. To humans 'Robots did it' can be an answer to anything they don't like. Humans also distrust anyone who deals with technology, especially advanced technology.
Humans even look at their laz-gun sideways.
Adaptus Machanicus Best to keep them separate from the rest of humanity. Usually stuck on separate worlds. Humans do not trust them one bit, but the official line is that the AM are Robot hunters, and task masters, there to brake the robot's iron will, torture them and enforce its slavery but cutting up their AI.
Quote 'Technology is not the answer for it is the very nature of the machine to betray us, only faith in the Empower can lead to salvation.'
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Aug 5, 2004 2:56:24 GMT -5
Robots still exist in the 40K world, or at least they did in 2nd Edition. Just not how you envision thme, as A.I. powered machines, they were more like automated Dreadnaughts. They were used by the Adeptus Mechanicus as shock troops, outfitted with weapons like a dreadnaught and given a specific program, such as "search and destroy all enemies" or "guard specific point".
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Post by Philip on Aug 5, 2004 3:12:18 GMT -5
This concept is a fluff rewrite much like my Hive threads. I looking proof the concept and see how people react to it.
In 3rd edition Robots (the Legio Cybernetica) were removed (I think).
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Post by CELS on Aug 5, 2004 4:06:29 GMT -5
Well, I don't like it at all, sorry But before we start engaging in heavy discussion, let me ask you this. How familiar are you with 40k fluff? Do the words 'Iron Men' or 'Machine Spirits' ring any bells? Are you aware that what you wrote makes no sense when compared to the fluff? If so, just which parts of the fluff are you looking to invalidate by introducing these 'robots'? And why this fascination with Eldar? I don't see why these 'robots' would hold them higher than humans. They're more advanced than humans technologically speaking, yes, but so are the Necrons, which one might think the robots would see more reason to adore.
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Post by Philip on Aug 5, 2004 4:59:57 GMT -5
There isn't much detail about the Iron men and I thought I would develop it a bit. Robots aren't really covered in 40K so it will have limited impact (unlike killing of squats, or redesigning the Tyranids) also as they are 'pacifist' they aren't going to turn up on the table top as a model.
Also I wanted to have a reason why humans dislike Robots and AI so much.
As for the Eldar, I choose them because the are psykers, Robots aren't. I would Imagine that these Robots see the Necrons are 'tainted' by biological imprints. As I said the Eldar would find them abhorrent and fascinating, I think the robots would look at the Eldar in a similar light. A case of mutual curiosity?
As for invalidating bit of fluff, this would go right over all the parts regarding the Iron Men. It also changes the 'war' between the Iron and Stone men into a witch hunt, were humans systematically hunted down and destroyed all AI.
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Post by CELS on Aug 5, 2004 5:12:50 GMT -5
There isn't much detail about the Iron men and I thought I would develop it a bit. Robots aren't really covered in 40K so it will have limited impact (unlike killing of squats, or redesigning the Tyranids) also as they are 'pacifist' they aren't going to turn up on the table top as a model. I think they're covered. Not nearly enough, true, but they are covered. Because the Iron Men betrayed the humans and groups of these machines attacked humans? Not all of them, apparently, but most of them. Seems like reason enough to me. Ah. Personally, I think the Eldar would look at robots as ugly, potentially dangerous creations, and not really fascinating at all. I do appreciate the point of the robots' curiosity, but for me it ends there. A curiosity. Well, that is already a part of the history, albeit at a later stage of the war, when the greatest battles were over, I think. Even the loyal Iron Men were systematically hunted down and destroyed. Once again, I fail to understand the motivation behind your attempt to change the 40k universe instead of expand upon it.
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Post by Philip on Aug 5, 2004 5:33:21 GMT -5
I want to change it as I would like a new take on how Robots didn't work out for Humans. The old 'Robots turned human and fought back for freedom' line has been don't many times before. I board of it and fancy a change. As for the Eldar, I suppose it depends of what Iron men a like, are they blocky lumps or sleek designs? I imagine humans would go for sleek designs during the GAoT, the Robots would be pretty like a new Ferrari. I think the Eldar would like them and see them as what human's 'wished they could be, but aren't. Fitting the concept it in further... =Builders of Old=Robots built the STCS:CS of GAoT. Without Robots the STCS:CS is difficult to implement, as I imagine the STCS:CS was optimised of Robot workers. Much of the automated systems of STCS would be run by Robots and AI, inc. maintenance/ external repair systems. I think even the police would have been Robots, and external security handled by Robots. Humans were very heavily dependent on Robots, with their loss the STCS fell apart. The Adaptus Machanicus is in the process of reordering and evaluating STCS technology. They are trying to put humans back in charge of the technology and at the same time remove any and all traces of AI and the processes to make AI (heavy censoring). This means the Adaptus Machanicus are rewriting the STCS as they get it. To remove all possibility of a return of the Iron Men. Added=New Robot=I want to design a 'new type of Robot' for GAoT, something more evolved that the usual mental construct. I'm thinking of a skeleton with material dynamics similar to the 'indestructible plugs' you can get from your local hardware store, you know the ones you can hit with a sledge hammer and they just bounce For motion I'm thinking neuro-fibre bundles, but with properties similar to Kevlar, so the 'flesh' is in itself bullet proof. All wrapped in a flexible bullet proof skin (long chain proteins like spider web?) with very low friction surface, or friction less (with grip pads!) All this make one very tough 'Robot'. I want it so if it fell out of plane it would just bounce and walk. If you shot it, it would have no effect. These GAoT Robots would be 'indestructible' in a way, and one of the reasons for humans total supremacy during the GAoT. The 'Robot' would be humanoid so it can interact and use humans systems and equipment. I also imagine them having faces (neuro-fibre bundles). Android? Not quite, they are not trying to pass as human, they will not look 'artificial' and I'm thinking of change the joints to a 'flexy skeleton', inspired by prosthetic limbs used in sports. More added'Fat' would be the battery layer just under the skin, it is not chemical energy but store the charge. The fat would also act to smooth the shape of the 'Robot' into something sleek. The lungs a heat exchanger/ refrigeration unit. The 'arteries' carry coolant and work via contraction similar to your oesophagus so no heart (pump) is need and the pressure is low. I'm thinking of combining organic and machine on a chemical level. These 'Robots' would be grown in tanks, the 'solution' forming the bodily structures. Something complex like DNA, but the 'Robot' would not have a cellular structure as an animal: just a complex mix of 'artificial proteins type things etc'. I'm also thinking that the 'Robots shielding' distorts reality allowing chemicals to act differently, much like a power field distorts matter. The Robot would be build to act and function under these new localised physics conditions, perhaps 'Iron' can form 8 bonds under this field and act as a super molecule like carbon (4 bonds)? Also it would mean a 'Robot' can pass straight through a power field!
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 8, 2004 0:50:44 GMT -5
As a means of detailing robots, it's an interesting little aside/ditty... But I personally dislike many of the concepts involved, especially the "magic field which makes everything work" towards the end. The whole 'indestructible' feel smacks too much of the concepts, if not the specific application, beyond the Necrons and (for me at least) they are significantly more advanced than anything humans were capable of achieving in the Golden/Dark Age of Technology... And remember that the eldar were at the height of their empire during the Golden/Dark Age of Technology, even if waning... Oh yes, and the eldar did seemingly use a form of construct/robot (and I'm not talking 'wraith' technology)...
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Post by Philip on Aug 8, 2004 1:10:19 GMT -5
As a means of detailing robots, it's an interesting little aside/ditty... But I personally dislike many of the concepts involved, especially the "magic field which makes everything work" towards the end. The whole 'indestructible' feel smacks too much of the concepts, if not the specific application, beyond the Necrons and (for me at least) they are significantly more advanced than anything humans were capable of achieving in the Golden/Dark Age of Technology... I would like to make the Golden age more Golden. Raise humanity higher, so they can have a bigger fall. I also want the new 'Robot' to be something the Eldar would find 'interesting' and therefore would have to be far more sophisticated and intelligent than a mere human. And remember that the eldar were at the height of their empire during the Golden/Dark Age of Technology, even if waning... I'm thinking this is why the new 'Robot' found the Eldar interesting, because of their complex yet elegant systems. Oh yes, and the eldar did seemingly use a form of construct/robot (and I'm not talking 'wraith' technology)... Really, perhaps a tie in? Perhaps these could be changed to be a descendants (derivative design) of the new 'Robot' a pale imitation created by the Eldar to replace them?
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 8, 2004 1:46:58 GMT -5
I would like to make the Golden age more Golden. Raise humanity higher, so they can have a bigger fall. <grin> Oh they feel a great height... I could give you the numbers that I use, but they're just the numbers that I use. Creating 'G/DAoT' artefacts is interesting, but you don't want to flood them and make them "munckin" through their indestructibility. You don't make something without an 'off switch' of varying forms (even if it happens to be an EMP weapon, or whatever). Really, perhaps a tie in? Perhaps these could be changed to be a descendants (derivative design) of the new 'Robot' a pale imitation created by the Eldar to replace them? For me? No. The eldar were, and remain, far more technologically advanced than the Imperium. Indeed even their post-Fall technologies are a tad in advance of what the humans had in the G/DAoT, more so if you consider the 'technomantic' aspects.
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Post by malika on Aug 8, 2004 10:55:38 GMT -5
This robot thing could be a cool idea...I dont know if we should put the idea I have in the Anargo Sector though, I mean, this was supposed to be an average sector, not a place where everything is happening there.
The idea I had was that one robot (Iron Men survivor) survived the war and didnt get hunted down by the humans. It is hiding somewhere, perhaps it just woke up or something...hey there is an idea *thinks out loud* this robot was asleep (hibernation of some sort, or just turned off) during the War, but after the War he woke up, and is trying to find out what is going on, perhaps it thinks the War is still going on, and it will start to attack every human nearby? Or it has memories to serve humanity and it tries to serve, but then gets hunted down by the Adeptus Mechanicus...
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Post by Philip on Aug 8, 2004 12:44:56 GMT -5
<grin> Oh they feel a great height... I could give you the numbers that I use, but they're just the numbers that I use. Give me those numbers! Creating 'G/DAoT' artefacts is interesting, but you don't want to flood them and make them "munckin" through their indestructibility. You don't make something without an 'off switch' of varying forms (even if it happens to be an EMP weapon, or whatever). Indestructible to normal weapons, humans hunted them down with D-Cannon/ D-Guns. There design was for resistance to this universe, but D-weapons rip huge chucks out of them. (design add: Also due to their powerfield design, warp anomalies generated by D-gun are attracted to the new 'Robot', it is really hard to miss no matter how quick they are.) For me? No. The eldar were, and remain, far more technologically advanced than the Imperium. Indeed even their post-Fall technologies are a tad in advance of what the humans had in the G/DAoT, more so if you consider the 'technomantic' aspects. I'm toying with the idea that these new 'Robots' aren't 100% human technology. I envisage that humans and AI had coexisted together for a very long time and that Robots become more sophisticated throughout their partnership with humans because AIs started to design Robots more and more, and then Robots designed new 'Robots'. I'm thinking the new 'Robots' become part of (human) society, with rights etc. and are proven and trustworthy companions to humans in all fields and disciplines. I'm thinking that AIs come up with 'powerfield theory' (see other thread) not humans. This new theory then leads to the creation of new 'Robots' with far more complex (impossibly complex) and sophisticated AI. It would be the new 'Robot' that first forms the concept of warp travel etc. Once these theories were discovered, humans could learn and understand them with help from new 'Robot' (humans didn't invent warp travel or Geller fields! *braces for impact*). I think it would be ironic if through these concepts D-weapons were made: the only weapons that can really harm these new 'Robots'. So in essence Robots lay the seeds their own downfall, (make a change from us humans doing that in sci-fi, oh wait...). New 'Robot', hmm, nRobot, er Artellicons? (nah, too 50's) Arteliods? This robot thing could be a cool idea...I dont know if we should put the idea I have in the Anargo Sector though, I mean, this was supposed to be an average sector, not a place where everything is happening there. The idea I had was that one robot (Iron Men survivor) survived the war and didnt get hunted down by the humans. It is hiding somewhere, perhaps it just woke up or something...hey there is an idea *thinks out loud* this robot was asleep (hibernation of some sort, or just turned off) during the War, but after the War he woke up, and is trying to find out what is going on, perhaps it thinks the War is still going on, and it will start to attack every human nearby? Or it has memories to serve humanity and it tries to serve, but then gets hunted down by the Adeptus Mechanicus... All these new 'Robots' are extinct. They are complex artificial lifeforms, more complex that any Biological lifeforms (see my concept thread on powerfield theory) and rely on internal altering of physics to function via powerfields. Turn the new 'Robot' off and the atoms revert to 'normal laws of physics' which mean total and utter destruction beyond the atomic level. Even if the new 'Robots' survived they a basically artificial lifeforms with a Ghandi complex. They were once were the ultimate killing machine, but they changed their mind and outgrow humans.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 8, 2004 13:28:33 GMT -5
Give me those numbers! LOL. As a working premise I determine that G/DAoT TL (GTL, that is) is TL12 with threshold TL13. While the adeptus mechanicus maintains TL10 and threshold TL11 (with obvious archaeotech from TL12-13), the average TL of the Imperium - despite everyone giving their world's TLs of GTL 9/TTL A-B all the time - being somewhere in the ream of GTL7... ish... Even if it is marginally higher, that remains a substantial crash. The equivalent of us being forced back to the technologies employed in the Iron Age or, even, the Bronze Age. The eldar, on the other hand, were GTL13 with threshold GTL14 (and even 'gadgets' that operated at GTL15, but you could luckily bypass this with 'technomancy'). The fall dropped them down to GTL12 with maintained GTL13 technologies... Indestructible to normal weapons, humans hunted them down with D-Cannon/ D-Guns. Nah... sounds a bit munchkin to make them invulnerable to all weapons. Hit 'em with enough energy and they'll fall... I'm toying with the idea that these new 'Robots' aren't 100% human technology...Robots become more sophisticated throughout their partnership... because AIs started to design Robots... A relatively standard feature of the 'robot genre'. Matrix springs to mind, rather obviously. I'm thinking that AIs come up with 'powerfield theory' (see other thread) not humans. In that case I completely disagree with the concept of 'powerfield theory' as you advocate it. Again it smacks of the munckin. Sorry. It's just the fact that these artifcial creations happen to create technomancy... It's possible yes since in some arguments the non-psyker G/DAoT scientists did it with the invention of warp drive, the creation of the Navigator gene, etc., but when coupled with all the other concepts that you're trying to integrate... Again, nah. It would be the new 'Robot' that first forms the concept of warp travel etc. I find the overall argument to be similar to the suggestion that Necron technology is ultimately responsible for all advances in the G/DAoT and equally as unpalatable.
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Post by Philip on Aug 8, 2004 20:16:53 GMT -5
LOL. As a working premise I determine that G/DAoT TL (GTL, that is) is TL12 with threshold TL13. While the adeptus mechanicus maintains TL10 and threshold TL11 (with obvious archaeotech from TL12-13), the average TL of the Imperium - despite everyone giving their world's TLs of GTL 9/TTL A-B all the time - being somewhere in the ream of GTL7... ish... Even if it is marginally higher, that remains a substantial crash. The equivalent of us being forced back to the technologies employed in the Iron Age or, even, the Bronze Age. The eldar, on the other hand, were GTL13 with threshold GTL14 (and even 'gadgets' that operated at GTL15, but you could luckily bypass this with 'technomancy'). The fall dropped them down to GTL12 with maintained GTL13 technologies... Thanks you! Nah... sounds a bit munchkin to make them invulnerable to all weapons. Hit 'em with enough energy and they'll fall... Like a defence laser/ Volcano Cannon... I thought D-Gun (a very compact D-Cannon) as they are no longer available, once the nRobots were wiped out, D-Guns fell out of favour as they are the most complex hand weapon ever created by humans and offers no advantage over other types weapon against non nRobots (in fact without the 'self-levelling' effect its damn hard to hit a moving target). Also Human Special Ops nRobot hunters armed with D-Guns sounds interesting. A relatively standard feature of the 'robot genre'. Matrix springs to mind, rather obviously. Very true, but these nRobots were designing themselves with the humans blessing while working together with humans. Also nRobot also 'turns Ghandi' something the 'Matrix' certainly didn't do. The nRobots were free, and I imagine to humans of the time period were regarded in much the same light as 'just another race'. As humans can go off and do their own thing, like genetic engineering to improve themselves, so Robots did much the same thing and design more sophisticated Robots. During this time period both humans ans nRobot were redesigning their respective future generations, and collaborated on these projects together. It is important to note (as in the importance to this concept) how integrated the Humans/ nRobot culture is. I imagine nRobots serving in government, even the occasional nRobot Prime Minister/ President (and humans don't bat an eyelid as it seems 'normal' to them after so many thousands of years of living together) Discipline wise, I imagine that nRobot would dominate in the sciences, Humans in the arts. I think it would be interesting if nRobots liked Human music and was always 'surprised' at how music sounded and what humans came up with, in a sense nRobot is precise whereas humans flow. To nRobot flow is a 'prised' asset, and the ability to balance complex thoughts and fit all concept together into a cohesive whole is something they aim for. The nRobots strive for and succeed in designing later nRobots were are able to fully see the consequences of their actions and balance their actions (Karma). In that case I completely disagree with the concept of 'powerfield theory' as you advocate it. Again it smacks of the munckin. Sorry. It's just the fact that these artifcial creations happen to create technomancy... It's possible yes since in some arguments the non-psyker G/DAoT scientists did it with the invention of warp drive, the creation of the Navigator gene, etc., but when coupled with all the other concepts that you're trying to integrate... Again, nah. Integrate is the key word. All these concepts are related like a very large web, and changes in one concept affect all of my concepts. I find the overall argument to be similar to the suggestion that Necron technology is ultimately responsible for all advances in the G/DAoT and equally as unpalatable. I've herd these arguments before. Using these concepts those arguments become rumours, were people mistake the nRobot for a Necron.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 9, 2004 1:20:33 GMT -5
That's just how I see it. There are certain technologies evidenced in either the G/DAoT or the current Imperium which do not fit neatly into the above scheme. As it stands CG technology, a pre-requisite of Imperium activities in many regards, is a GTL12 product but is introduced earlier (GTL10 though franchised out at GTL9; GTL8 cannot feasibly produce them in capital/labour terms). Similarly, stasis boxes and related technologies are GTL15/16, but obviously have to appear at earlier TLs to make them accessible either as archaeotech (GTL12-13)... Of course, this is the one place - the one place alone! (erm, until I think of another) - that the STC system as advocated by GW and, indeed, many others. To argue that there are is an STC for what is, in essence, a rather simple APC (e.g. Rhino) or tank (e.g. Predator) beggers belief when one considers what else they're capable of. No, no and NO. But if it is actually beyond the reach of what they are currently capable of achieving (in a guestimated, averaged structured approach) then all the better... Like a defence laser/ Volcano Cannon... The problem here is that you're making individual components so powerful that it would be... boring. Sorry, there's no other word for it. A weapon of the magnitude listed above would, or should, completely vapourise any robot the size you're talking about. Multiple hits with heavy weapons should be more than sufficient to deal with the 'nrobot'. Incidentally, in the above GTL scheme, the most advanced technologies employed by the G/DAoT was obviously GTL13. In the standard GURPS tech-line this allows the introduction of substantial nanotechnology, most particularly nanomorphs (think T1000 from Teminerator 2). Transitional GTL12/13 might employ limited nanotechnology in the 'dermis' as found in Terminator 3, with energy dispersive, reparative, chameleonic and, of course, energy production capabilities... I thought D-Gun (a very compact D-Cannon) as they are no longer available, once the nRobots were wiped out, D-Guns fell out of favour as they are the most complex hand weapon ever created... "You fell lucky punk... Well, do ya!?" I would be personally averse to equipped humans with the technology to employ warp rifts in this case. The only technology that springs to mind where they can do this is the vortex grenade and missile, which are a whole different kettle of fish. Thus I would personally say a big "No" to this one... too powerful, subject to too many problems. Also Human Special Ops nRobot hunters armed with D-Guns sounds interesting. Depends on the ultimate structure as to what weapons they could employ... you could equally employ superdense 'arrows' which deliver electrical shocks into the target.. microwave weapons that interfere with the electronics... 'viral' nanotech to disrupt circuits... induction equipment to electronically 'hack' the machine at a distance... There are so many ways around the robot concept in an advanced society that just blasting them away with a warp rift seems a bit primitive. Furthermore, I once again reiterate my lack of favour that they are described as 'indestructible'. Very true, but these nRobots were designing themselves with the humans blessing while working together with humans. Also nRobot also 'turns Ghandi' something the 'Matrix' certainly didn't do. You might wish to check out the concepts of the Virus in Traveller (specifically the end of MegaTraveller and the beginning of New Era). The various strains of Virus and what they did might be a useful basis, providing a spectrum of response rather than a 'racial Ghandi'. The nRobots were free, and I imagine to humans of the time period were regarded in much the same light as 'just another race'. But a very powerful race... Do countries next to each other at peace bring down their borders? Do they remove their paramilitary and military organisations? It is important to note (as in the importance to this concept) how integrated the Humans/ nRobot culture is. I imagine nRobots serving in government, even the occasional nRobot Prime Minister/ President (and humans don't bat an eyelid as it seems 'normal' to them after so many thousands of years of living together) That would cause some glitches, but seems feasible enough with the set-up that you've kind of provided. Remember, however, that the 'minster/president' would not be of the former 'empire' for rather obvious reasons, including the fact that it would have been even less 'centralised' than the modern Imperium (where they have, through pyskers, come across the concept of the 'telegraph' system). Discipline wise, I imagine that nRobot would dominate in the sciences, Humans in the arts. I don't entirely agree here, but that they would have an important part in 'B and C' science merely because of their computational abilities... But then again, why? Why anthropomorphic robots when fixed systems would be far more useful? Humans provide the 'A and D' science, to borrow from yet another film. Integrate is the key word. All these concepts are related like a very large web, and changes in one concept affect all of my concepts. Ah, that might be a problem there. I intensely dislike powerfield theory that you're trying to advocate. I've herd these arguments before. Pathetic, aren't they.
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