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Post by LordFenric on May 17, 2004 8:54:57 GMT -5
A lot of the smugglers imagery from Star Wars, specifically Han Solo is something i identify with the 40k universe, at least its presence, Solo would have made a good Rogue Trader, as for the rest of it mostly too 'cute'
The series i'm reading at the moment (which the name and author escape me) but the first 2 are Geomancer and Tetrearch..... Their represntatoin of magic, the 'feild' has strong conections to the warp and its use, especially with the Eldar, accomainied by their manipulation of crydtal, atuning it to draw power from the feild.
The Dune saga is obvious, running all the way through the book in too many ways to mention. The David Lynch film is also for me a good vsual represntation of a 40k esq universe.
Probably more but i can' thinkat the moment....
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Post by Destecado on May 18, 2004 10:29:46 GMT -5
Actually, I think that 40k might have based alot of its time line theory off of the Dune series of books. If you read through them, They speak of the Butlerian Jihad. This was a time when man kind rose up against its machine creations. Its is also the reason that such classes as Mentats came into being. It became illegal to create machines or mechanical intelligences in the likeness of man.
Actually if you are interested, they have begun to release prequals to the dune saga. The first trilogy deals with the three houses (Atreides, Harkonnen and Corino) that are tied up in the conflict of the Classic Dune Series. The Second trilogy starts with the Butlerian Jihad events that take place 10,000 years before the events of the original Dune books. It picks up two decades later in the Machine Crusade. The third book has yet to be released, but is entitled The Battle of Corrin.
the first series are great for their insight into the political machinizations behind events. If you have read the first series, it also gives you a good prespective on where the events are heading. I still enjoy the original books, but these new ones are welconed additions to the Dune Universe.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 21, 2004 19:18:26 GMT -5
Well, I just finished watching Zulu, and it struck me as being remarkably similar to 40K in some ways. If not the exact imagery, then just the general concept of a small "good" force holding out against a massive enemy army. (IG vs. Orks/Nids). A weak analogy, but one of the few things I know of that hasn't been contributed to this thread already.
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on May 21, 2004 19:50:07 GMT -5
The Age of Unreason series (Newton's Cannon, A Calculus of Angels, Empire of Unreason, Shadows of God), if only for its representation of Angels (Malekim) and the Material universe as "resonances." And of course the gratuitous use of techno-arcana and "daemon-weapons."
The Red Star. The sheer monolithic nature of the URRS and its warmachines (and Space Mar...er..."Hailers") was very reminiscent of the Imperium's "tough love" policies for its satellite "states." In addition, a sort of "spirit of the revolution" vs. "malign leader of the revolution" war seems to be taking place on a spiritual plane. The existance of highly trained witches (or Inquisitors, I guess I should say), and immortal daemons, is also iconic of 40k. "Kasting...."
Souls in the Great Machine; aside from the latter three-quarters of this book (which blow), I liked this book as a parallel to the Adeptus Mechanicus' monopoly on knowledge and scientific academia. Their blind worship and trust of "superior" technology is pretty obvious in the last few pages. Also something called "The Call" leads people to walk south completely at random. Only those with intense mental fortitude (or inborn immunity) can resist it.
American Gods for its bizarre demonstration of the relationship between gods and individuals (belief and sacrifice fuels existance; Odin's "sacrifice of myself to myself" and motion to make his "followers" wage war against the "new gods" in order that he would personally benefit from their mutual destruction was slightly reminiscent of the Emperor and the Chaos Gods). Also, the way that gods and spiritual entities could "split" in cultural diasporas (eg, there's an Norse Odin but an American Odin as well) is interesting in the context of 40k's own "deity" hierarchy. And the "right angle to reality" representation of what Odin calls "backstage" is kinda in step with the warp....
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Post by malika on May 29, 2004 1:46:20 GMT -5
My influences right now: Terminator: Right now Im in my Terminator phase...which means Im totally watching T1 and T2, ignoring T3...oh Im reading Terminator: Infiltrator... This could be something with some Chaos Cult infiltrator inside some Imperial Hive, transporting some "warped machine spirits" and putting them into some of his creations which he lets loose in the Hive.
Fight Club: Not very Sci Fi, but the idea of the Revolution in that movie could be something...maybe not Chaos or Xenos related, but some Hive Gang trying to bring down Imperial society.
Ministry: Ok this isnt even fiction, it's a band, but the music gives me this view of how movies from the 80ties portraited the future, always pretty dark and gloomy, I like that for 40k.
El Mariachi/Desperado: I dont know if you people have seen these two movies, but the main character "El mariachi" could be a kick ass =][= or some guy in the Hives out killing people!
Starship Troopers: The normal troopers make me think of Tech Guard, but then without the bionics, so give Starship Troopers soldiers lots of bionics and you're there. If any of you watched the animated series, there was an episode where they had a robot, that robot could be pretty cool as an Adeptus Mechanicus Robot. Or even better, a robot the Infiltrator would build (just check the beginning of my post for that).
Water World(yes that movie with Kevin Costner): This movie has something...ORKY!!! I mean it could be like Gorka Morka, but then on water, that would seriously kick ass, or maybe some big sea on a normal Ork held planet with stuff like that.
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Post by lonepilgrim on Jun 11, 2004 23:59:59 GMT -5
Films are my speciality so I'll start with them.
There are 3 directors who I think capture the tone and feel of 40k:
Ridley Scott David Fincher Terry Gilliam
Scotts's films include Blade Runner (a dark and moody industrialised future which could represent many Hive worlds), Black Hawk Down (how many Imperial Guard armies did this inspire?), and Gladiator (gets over the martial codes of honour that Space Marines would adhere to, and also in it's attitude to life and death).
Fincher I'm thinking of more in terms of look than content. Check out Seven, The Game, Fight Club, and of course Alien 3. It's almost Gothic but in an urban setting, very sci-fantasy I reckon.
Gilliam is more of your John Blanche equivalent, and his films include lots of weird and wacky fantastical elements. Brazil is particularly good, and 12 Monkeys and Time Bandits spring to mind too. If I look at the way technology is presented in many of his films it reminds me of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Other films are Alien and it's sequels (obviously) and Apocalypse Now (which has been plundered by 40k developers).
Of course that film was based upon Joseph Conrad's book Heart of Darkness which is also good material for the 40k universe. In fact I would recommend most of Conrad's books for their collision between old and new cultures, east and west, etc. You could even make stretch and substitute the sea for the warp...
Umberto Eco is excellent as his post-modern jumbling of ideas matches the 40k science/fantasy universe well.
I've got to mention Lovecraft too, when thinking about Necrons but also in the way his characters act/react to forces completely beyond their reckoning. This relates more to Chaos IMHO...
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Post by malika on Jun 13, 2004 4:34:48 GMT -5
Anime movies: WAIT!!! hear me out...Im not talking about big mecha machines and giant fancy laser guns! But did you see anime movies like Akira and Ghost in the Shell? Look at those police officers and normal militairy, they could be pretty cool IG. The tanks in Akira could be pretty cool as Tech Guard tanks. Those portable laser cannons in Akira could be lascannons for IG units.
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Post by frodo34x on Jul 31, 2004 5:17:16 GMT -5
Can we suggest computer games?
G-Police I thought the big domes where everyone lives were similar to the idea of 40k Hives
Deus Ex This game made me think of the Imperial Inquisition. In fact, I think they should make a 40k Inquisitor game based on it.
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Post by Philip on Aug 3, 2004 21:55:04 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this, but the only film that remotely reminds me of 40K is Ghost in the Shell 2 Innocence. I asked about this on Portent but no one seems to have seen it.
Now I'm not talking about the series (Stand alone complex) or the first film. As these definitely do not look anything like 40K.
Not all aspects GinS2I are 40K like fluff wise, but the actual look and lighting seems right to me.
The only other is Metropolis by Fritz Lang, it has the right feeling but the visuals are way off.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 3, 2004 23:17:56 GMT -5
I'm suprised no one has mentioned Judge Dredd the film that is, if thats not 40k then i don't know what is, hive citys, judges,weapons with explosive ammo, cloning of genetically superior judges, the wasteland out side the cities very necromunda.
Aliens and Dune for obviouse reasons
The Fifth Element, again the hive like cities, the ships, weird aliens, the chinese guy in a flying boat, it was a really cool film
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Post by Philip on Aug 3, 2004 23:33:16 GMT -5
I must admit that I don't see 40K in many films. I see the influences that make it and shape it, but I don't think of many as being 40K.
I suspect that 40K would be a new genre.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 4, 2004 0:24:09 GMT -5
Thats what i meant, though what i wrote clearly does'nt give that impression. I would have said 40k is an amalgamation of disparate influences, Aliens,dune, bladerunner, judge dredd being some of the obvious influences for 40k. The Prophecy I,II, III were all good films, but i cant see the 40k link
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 4, 2004 12:40:20 GMT -5
A new genre? LOL. For me, not even close. It's fantasy pure and simple and, for the most part, no longer deserves its original claim to the term "sci-fantasy".
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Post by Philip on Aug 4, 2004 14:49:20 GMT -5
All fiction is a fantasy I was thinking more of putting 40K into a pigeon hole, and I think it doesn't fit into any of the current holes out there. It has elements of many different genres, but it doesn't really drop into a single camp. To me 'Fantasy' as a genre is Tolkien, fantasy implies heroes, happy endings epic tales. I don't think anyone does this genre better than Tolkien, and all derivative works there after a pale shadows. I don't think it fits this because 40K doesn't have happy endings, it is essentially a horror setting, with strong religious overtones with a sci-fi backdrop. I usually refer to it as 'Gothic Sci-Fi' but hardly seems to sum it up. The Gothic refers to Imperial architecture and implies a religious angle. I do like the idea of 'fantasy in space'. Not Star Wars/ Star Trek/ Starship troopers, any thing else with star in the title. I think of it more as religious epic (like Ben Hur or The Ten Commandments), but far more horrific (let Mel Gibson have a look at it). I think people 'faith in the Emperor' would have to be played straight, and have a very serious attitude. The Horus Heresy is a classic 'religious epic'. Passion of Christ/ Alien/ Ghost in the Shell and a little Metropolis/ Event Horizon/. Cert 18. PS: GW would never let me run riot with these ideas, I've already had my art work censored.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 5, 2004 0:00:56 GMT -5
<sigh> Yes, I know. So many 'works' cross the genre boundaries, though and many of these are far more deserving of 'new titles' themselves. The influence of any particular genre is the result of the author and/or artist, not necessarily the product itself. Only rarely have I seen (even the) soft sci-fi influences in 40k and even Abnett's Eisenhorn books, by far more influenced by that side of things, only scrapes a 'space opera' rating... (Calling 40k sci-fi is like calling Modesitt Jr's Corean books sci-fi just because they have gunpowder technology... Naaah.) Yep, some sides can draw a 'horror' rating, though while sharing some similarities of what I understand of Lovecraftian horror, most of it merely comes off as 'pulp'. Then again, arguably so too does the entire BL range... Which is a shame, moreso because it's better than I can write fiction. <sigh> I will never be that kind of author... And the fantasy elements are manifestly strong, although also crossover with other genre. Manifestation of the gods, 'magic' and, of course the biggie, just merely the way which it is normally written the disproportionately long prehistories to give it a certain 'feel' (failing miserably to do so), etc. The one thing that is most definitely true from your last post is that because 40k is the bastardised child of so many genre (but it's still just fantasy) is that people bring to it what they want to bring to it. Which is part of the reason that I started this thread: to see where everyone was coming from, or at least primarily so. (And secondarily to perhaps get some good inspiration for books/films to watch... I'm so horrendously bored with the bland writing out there at the moment!) So for me? I downplay the religious overtones by seeing them in the cynical light of a retrospective look at the 'medieval church' (of course modifying it by the fact that it does not fit strictly in translation, not by a long-shot). I see it as a far more political and pragmatic universe, one tempered by a history of suspicion and 'fear' but not in which people move from one point of insanity to another in the Lovecraftian sense. It is a selfish universe. But anyway. Shoot me...
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