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Post by CELS on Feb 22, 2004 12:23:09 GMT -5
We will have both, yes. The idea is that everyone will be required to write the standardised representation. This is to prevent some members from giving a hoot about government, law, culture, and only focusing on PDF and Imperial Guard regiments. I agree though, that most of our visitors will be less concerned with the stuff that only affects RPG and fiction, such as local customs and physiology, and I agree that the website representation should take that into considerations, of course.
That's why it might be a good idea for each planet to be represented by Administratum and Ad Mech- type reports and a map, along with any wargaming resources, and with links to the complete, objective standardised representation. Eh?
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Post by Minister on Feb 22, 2004 12:42:25 GMT -5
Ah, right. I thought that that was for the "Imperial Datafile" section. My apoligies.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 22, 2004 13:08:27 GMT -5
Technology as a number is staying, I'm afraid. You think that it's misleading? Yes, it is. It is meant to be misleading. Each of the categories are, for the most part! Heck even the physical characteristics can be interpreted to some extent when one considers the various types of terraforming that are possible (i.e. introduction of a taint through 'atmospheric terraforming', etc.). The fact that there is a standard number of 'technology' means... well, not too much actually, except as a guideline to what you could conceivably find on the planet. That doesn't mean that you will find it, nor that you will not find something of a higher TL than described. Again, it is a guideline just as when you type in a '6' on the government code. If a world is described as, for example, GTL8 that doesn't mean that it cannot get lasweapons! Obviously they can import them! Or they might even run an adeptus mechanicus 'franchise' which just wasn't rated or - and this is a biggie - wasn't present at the time that the world was categorised! Take a look at the listings again and note the very first bullet point: date of preparation. Therein lies another point of lattitude. Remember that I mentioned about what information would be included on the various worlds so that it would integrate into the overall 'hierarchy' of the worlds, representing the information transferred between the bureaucracies? The concept that the world at the bottom of the chain sends detailed records to the next world, whose adepts summarise them and send them along. The total information that a world builder creates is like this bottom tier planet. You produce everything... the next world would get less accurate information (so the idea of 'rumours', as a very quick example, would be absent)... What the sector capital, Anargo, would get is something far more distilled. And Terra? Perhaps something as inconsequential and difficult to interpret as the - <gasp>! - UWP? They know the name of the begger, roughly what type of planet it is and what government was last reported (though they know that there is going to be an Imperial Commander, of course), they roughly know what technological infrastructure they've got (that's what the TL number is, though from the above this can be complex!), roughly how it fits into the local economy, it's population, what it produces, it's tithe grade... That is the whole point... So, again, TL is staying. If you want a separate paragraph-based description then that is also fine. After all, if you look at the Guide the "Technology-related Details" was meant to cover this type of lattitude, although it's not something that I feel is very applicable to the 40k universe (although it could be used as, for example, a guide to inspiration!). Kage
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Post by Lordof on Mar 14, 2004 20:36:19 GMT -5
Kage i don't think you really need all of that info listed with the planets.
Like a lot of that would be the basis of getting the defining facts of the planet and wouldn't really be all that necessary for building a planet history other than to get the necessary Data for Temp climate rotation etc.
That sorta info you could perhaps ask the people to do but keep with themselves until it is necessary (Eg you big compilation of all the data at the end)
As for any planet you need to keep the info simple and clean bogging down the planets with detail will quickly kill off interest in anyone who is reading through the planets.
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Post by CELS on Mar 15, 2004 10:02:13 GMT -5
I hope it's not rude of me to reply to this post, since it was directed at Kage, but I suppose you would have sent him a PM if you didn't want me to What info do you consider unnecessary? Axial tilt and orbital eccentricity? If you check out the sticky-thread on Standardised representation, you'll notice that such minor details are presented last, after the information that is the most interesting to the typical reader. If the person loses interest at this stage, that's fine, because he will already have read the important stuff. It is imperative that all this information is included in the standardised representation, because everyone who builds a world must have produced this information. It is important because A) To RPGers and fiction writers, axial tilt is important to find out the temperature of a certain city at winter, for example B) It's a way for us to check if the world builders have used the guide to create their planet, or if they've just created the base temperature value for themselves, to fit their own goals, for example. We've had problems with members before, who wanted an earth-like planet and just ignored the guide to get what they wanted. A question of my own...Kage, would it not be appropriate to post a standardised approach to Tithes and Aestimare in the world-building forum? I seem to recall that we never actually decided on these two, since zholud and I -as always- disagreed
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Post by Lordof on Mar 16, 2004 6:38:23 GMT -5
Well no Axial Tilt and eccentricity is part of its location in comparrisson to other locations.
But other things Such as Tectonic plates etc. can be marked down upon the map we are doing for each planet.
Along with Volcanoes and Continents/Islands Archipeligoes etc.
But Stellar Luminosity, Siesmic Stress, Energy Absorbtion, Greenhouse effect.
These are sorta bogging down the planet with info
That sort of info should be a seperate file as most people won't go into that sort of depth.
Most would be interested in where it is, Whats there, How hot is it and who lives there.
So the Description you wrote for the Standard format of displaying a planet is the best way of displaying a planet. You can have a file attachment (Call it Mechanicus Report or something) which contains all of that extra info that Kage listed.
As you do need to realise most people have short attention spans and will not want to read that sort of information.
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Post by CELS on Mar 16, 2004 7:10:03 GMT -5
Like I said, some of the information is required so that veteran members can check the standardised representation, and see if you've calculated the surface base temperature, of if you've pulled the number out of your a**. For some people, it'll be tempting to juggle with the physical data to create a perfect earth-like atmosphere, for example. Besides, all this information is at the bottom of the document. Also, note that the standardised representation is only part of what will be put on the website, when we get that far. And yes, at that stage, we will probably consider putting all the specific stats such as stellar luminosity, tectonic plates and greenhouse effect on a seperate page, as well as having seperate pages for Inquisitional reports, Divisio Biologis reports, Imperial Guard assessments, etc. On this forum however, the Standardised representation will maintain its current form. Unless Kage changes his mind again, of course, in which case I will submit his e-mail to porno newsletters (Kidding, Kage. Honest) Summary- The Standardised Representation of the ASP forum will remain the same. The 'insignificant data' will also be included, because it lets us check that you've calculated the stats correctly, if nothing else. - The representation on the website will most likely be very different. You can start a thread discussing this if you wish, but I doubt the final website will be up anytime soon anyway.
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 16, 2004 9:27:39 GMT -5
Quite likely, but as CELS later says it is going to stay. We're going to be working from a common foundation rather than having different levels of detail dependent on member interest. I've seen this far too often on various boards on the 'Net that have attempted something similar. If all that was desired was some brief descriptions of worlds, their histories and what-not I would - obviously with a bit more time - be able to produce the entire sector myself. It doesn't take that much effort to mirror the amount of information that GW produced for, say, the Gothic sector. The ASP, however, hopes to go beyond the superficial information that is often published and provide people with the details to be able to do... well, anything really. It will provide the basic information that will allow a roleplayer to take an active part in the universe without continually having to detail all the things that the wargamers leave out. Similarly, it will provide the social, political and economic background which will allow interesting and dynamic wargame campaigns which can truly shape the events in the sector... Depends on what you mean by detail. From the quick skim of your replies before I hit "reply", you mention tectonic plates. Yep, for the most part this is a detail that is going to be 'inconsequential' for most... Yet it is also needed when mapping the world and, after all, the mimimum information required for the ASP is that the mainworld of a given system is fully mapped! And, after all, you're having to generate the statistics for worlds using the Guide anyway. As it's part of the process you might as well generate it! <grin> No, it's not rude. Remember that my project time is limited at the moment by the necessity of trying to get a PhD written! Yes, exactly. There are some features of the project which cannot be ignored if we are to stick as much as possible to the goals of the project. It would be useful and appropriate, yes. Seeing what you've posted on 'standard representations' on your worlds it has merely brought across the import of having definitions on these. It is too easy to ascribe numbers with no meaning. Ultimately, however, it would be useful to tie in the "tithe" with the Trade Codes, Export statistic and, of course, the more detailed information on resources/export produced as a part of the Guide... That is going to be more difficult. CELS has already addressed this: the information is included at the end of the standardised representation... Perhaps your average wargamer or when a world is only going to superficially show up in an RPG campaign... No, keep it at the end when all you have to do is stop reading down. Project members producing worlds will, however, produce this information. That's okay then... again all they have to do is stop pushing the 'scroll down' button... Kage
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