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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 22, 2004 15:10:57 GMT -5
I'm a new member and this is my planet. I originally planned it to be a ringworld (think HALO), but figured this would be to radical for your plans. If y'all want to incorporate a Ringworld into the sector background, I'd be more than happy to post more background.
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Altarra is a world renound for the skill of it's fighting men and women. Originally settled during the dark age of technology, it's inhabitants lost contact with the rest of humanity. During the milliniea of isolation, culture devolved into a feudal system with various cities-states each holding a claim to regions surrounding their strongholds. Altarran mythology tells of great kings and heros in this time, but records are inconsistent and preserved only in rich bardic tradition.
When the Imperium of Mankind rediscovered Altarra, they found a strong but divided culture. The warriors of Altarra gladly joined the Great Crusade, and fought valiantly to protect the fledgling Imperium from Horus. When the veterans eventually returned from their long ordeal, they imposed a new rule.
Drawing on their military experiences, the new Altarran culture was centered on service to the state. Together with Cadian Imperial Guardsmen, they established a Meritocracy on Altarra, replacing the old feudal system. Only Imperial Guard, PDF, or Civil Service veterans were allowed to vote or run for office. All others were afforded equal civil and legal rights except the franchise. The basic unit of Altarran Government is the city, a hold over from ancient times, with a governor and senators elected by veterans. Each senator represents 1/100th of the population of the city. Each city then sends a single elected representitive to the planetary government. Veterans also elect a planetary governor who holds the position for life or retirement, when a new governor is elected.
Altarra raises three different types of Regiments. The most versitle regiment are the Rangers. Highly trained heavy infantry and drop troops, Rangers can deploy via Valkyrie Air Assault Carriers, infiltrate deep behind enemy lines, and board enemy vessels during naval engagements. Altarran Armored Regiments are less adaptable but far more lethal than Rangers, especially against vehicle heavy opponents. Finally, there are the Altarran Dragoons, regiments mounted entirely on horseback which act as a honor guard and also patrol the countryside surrounding a city. An Altarran city will typically have one of each type of regiment stationed in its borders.
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What do you think?
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Post by CELS on Jan 22, 2004 15:41:32 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure a ringworld would be too advanced/radical for our plans. Sorry. I suppose this is up to Kage, but I personally don't see how humans could have built a ringworld in 40k. I know, it was settled during the Golden age of technology, but still...
But let's look at the rest, shall we?
I think the Altarrans sound really interesting, and I'm happy to see another horse-mounted regiment in 40k! A few comments;
- Did Altarra preserve its technology during the millennia of isolation? If no, why not?
- I hope you'll be willing to change the part about Cadian guardsmen. Cadia is far, far away.
- Could you come up with more details for the world itself? Like, what kind of technology level did you have in mind? What world-class would Altarra be? Feudal, civilised, factory, hive...? Do you have any preferences for the climate of Altarra?
Once you've thought about this, have a brief look through our subsectors, and see if you find a subsector for your world. There's the capital subsector, with the sector's capital and navy HQ, the Dorvastor subsector, with its Cardinal world and strong Ministorum presence, the Proteus subsector, with its forgeworld and strong AM presence, the Meksum subsector, with its hive world(s) and all its trade, the Castellan subsector, with its fortress worlds and pending doom from orks, and the 'other subsector', which is still something of a question mark.
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 22, 2004 16:40:40 GMT -5
>I'm pretty sure a ringworld would be too advanced/radical for our plans. Sorry. I suppose this is up to Kage, but I personally don't see how humans could have built a ringworld in 40k. I know, it was settled during the Golden age of technology, but still...
But let's look at the rest, shall we?
The humans did not build Altarra (or the Altarra Heleonis as I called the ringworld itself). It was discovered by humans. They aren't the onlyones who lived there. Eldar, Orks, and other alien races have left traces on the huge ringworld.
>I think the Altarrans sound really interesting, and I'm happy to see another horse-mounted regiment in 40k! A few comments;
- Did Altarra preserve its technology during the millennia of isolation? If no, why not?
Altarra lost most of it's technology, except for thier excellent metal working skills. Different cites retained different technologies.
>- I hope you'll be willing to change the part about Cadian guardsmen. Cadia is far, far away.
I use the Cadian plastic miniatures to represent my forces. I would be more than happy to find another justification for using Cadian style equipment.
>- Could you come up with more details for the world itself? Like, what kind of technology level did you have in mind? What world-class would Altarra be? Feudal, civilised, factory, hive...? Do you have any preferences for the climate of Altarra?
Altarra has a variety of climates and biomes, but it is mostly grassland, forests, and mountians. There are two large deserts, one large jungle, and several large oceans.
>Once you've thought about this, have a brief look through our subsectors, and see if you find a subsector for your world. There's the capital subsector, with the sector's capital and navy HQ, the Dorvastor subsector, with its Cardinal world and strong Ministorum presence, the Proteus subsector, with its forgeworld and strong AM presence, the Meksum subsector, with its hive world(s) and all its trade, the Castellan subsector, with its fortress worlds and pending doom from orks, and the 'other subsector', which is still something of a question mark.
I's like Altarra to be in the Capital or Proteus subsectors. However, they "mystery" subsector could be interesting. If we go with the ringworld idea, perhaps this could be the basis of the "mystery?" Who build the Heleonis, why are there all sorts of alien ruins and artifacts there?
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Post by CELS on Jan 22, 2004 17:36:41 GMT -5
The humans did not build Altarra (or the Altarra Heleonis as I called the ringworld itself). It was discovered by humans. They aren't the onlyones who lived there. Eldar, Orks, and other alien races have left traces on the huge ringworld. Interesting.. I have no idea if the others will approve of this. I'm kind of doubtful, and will await the others' decision. That the orks used to inhabit the world might mean that there would be an ork infestation on the planet. The buggers are hard to get rid of. Altarra lost most of it's technology, except for thier excellent metal working skills. Different cites retained different technologies. Yes, right. And was there like a big war that resulted in the loss of technology, or... what? I use the Cadian plastic miniatures to represent my forces. I would be more than happy to find another justification for using Cadian style equipment. Actually, I believe most Imperial Guard regiments would use equipment that is very similar to the Cadian style. If you read the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, you'll see that the flak armour and helmet is pretty standard. Only special regiments have lighter armour, like the Catachan flak vests, etc, or other weaponry. Altarra has a variety of climates and biomes, but it is mostly grassland, forests, and mountians. There are two large deserts, one large jungle, and several large oceans. Well, I don't know if you can find a planet with exactly two large deserts and one large jungle, but maybe. You see, you don't just insert a planet into the Anargo sector. You find a planet which is already there, and then mould it into something you like. What about technology? And what world-class? Hive world? Civilised world? What? If you don't have any preference, you could always use our guidelines to work that stuff out. I's like Altarra to be in the Capital or Proteus subsectors. However, they "mystery" subsector could be interesting. If we go with the ringworld idea, perhaps this could be the basis of the "mystery?" Who build the Heleonis, why are there all sorts of alien ruins and artifacts there? Definitely something to think about! Maybe you have some suggestions that you want to post in the 'Other subsector' forum?  |
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Post by malika on Jan 24, 2004 8:48:16 GMT -5
I like this world, what does this ring world mean? that it has some giant ring around the planet? The regiments are cool, you coul work this out very cool, I could help a bit maybe, but Im not that good with IG fluff so I can only give small suggestions, but there are other members that can help you too with it  I dont know what climat you have on Altarra, but I found a pic of a guardsman, and..well...it kinda made me think of your planet:  |
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 24, 2004 20:22:08 GMT -5
>I like this world, what does this ring world mean? that it has some giant ring around the planet? A ring world is a huge construction placed at about 1 AU from a sun, roughly 300,000,000 miles in circumfrence, encircling the star. Inside, closer to the sun, is a second ring with panels to block sunlight, slowly rotating about the star. This creates day and night effects on the Altarra Heleonis. >The regiments are cool, you coul work this out very cool, I could help a bit maybe, but Im not that good with IG fluff so I can only give small suggestions, but there are other members that can help you too with it I really don't need much help with developing the regiments or history (most development is already done), but I might need a few pointers incorporating the system with the sector background. >I dont know what climat you have on Altarra, but I found a pic of a guardsman, and..well...it kinda made me think of your planet: Haha. Altarra is more like Idaho or Montana. Rolling plains, high forested mountains, big rivers. BTW: the number of deserts and jungles is variable and are only the ones that have been explored. There are billions of square miles on the Heleonis, and no in depth survey has ever been conducted. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 25, 2004 9:08:48 GMT -5
First off, Zidagar Dinoman, welcome to the project. I hope that you enjoy your stay and contribute regularly. It is always nice to see such a lengthy first(ish) post... ;D I'm a new member and this is my planet. I originally planned it to be a ringworld (think HALO), but figured this would be to radical for your plans. If y'all want to incorporate a Ringworld into the sector background, I'd be more than happy to post more background. The ringworld sounds more like an attempt to get a high-tech construct like the Dyson Sphere in on the sector and, while more original than the inclusion of one of those monsters, is something that I'm not keen on. At this point I would therefore have to say 'no' to the concept of a Ringworld. ...Altarra is a world renound for the skill of it's fighting men and women. Originally settled during the dark age of technology, it's inhabitants lost contact with the rest of humanity. During the milliniea of isolation, culture devolved into a feudal system with various cities-states each holding a claim to regions surrounding their strongholds. At the moment this sounds like an example of the cliche that is GW's approach to worlds in the Age of Stife. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing since we don't currently have one of these worlds... Only Imperial Guard, PDF, or Civil Service veterans were allowed to vote or run for office. Sounds a bit like Starship Troopers. Each senator represents 1/100th of the population of the city. That is a potentially huge council. I remember reading - somewhere - that if the UK was to operate a participatory democracy similar to the one in classical Athens there would need to be an annually changing membership of ~750,000 representatives... For some reason, this government description reminds me of that. (And Sparta, of course...) Altarra raises three different types of Regiments. The most versitle regiment are the Rangers. This is fine, but one has to remember that we're not trying to necessarily produce different armies.... our goal is to create the worlds themselves and then populate them with armies, as it were. A minor point only... With some work it could find a place in the Anargo sector... Altarra lost most of it's technology, except for thier excellent metal working skills. Different cites retained different technologies. A possibility and another reason why Altarra, as described, lives the 40k cliche. One has to question whether over the millennia technology would not have advanced given what people knew... Ah well, a minor point again. Altarra has a variety of climates and biomes, but it is mostly grassland, forests, and mountians. There are two large deserts, one large jungle, and several large oceans. The implication is, I feel, that you'[re going to have to to take a look at the various subsectors and see if there is a system that suits your purpose. Also remember that some of the project managers have already posted some 'concept worlds' that you might be able to tweak... I's like Altarra to be in the Capital or Proteus subsectors. Make it the capital subsector. It might not be inappropriate to link it to the concept of the Academy that is located there. However, they "mystery" subsector could be interesting. If we go with the ringworld idea, perhaps this could be the basis of the "mystery?" Who build the Heleonis, why are there all sorts of alien ruins and artifacts there? Let's stick away from this idea at the moment. It might be something that we come back to, but for the moment no. A ring world is a huge construction placed at about 1 AU from a sun, roughly 300,000,000 miles in circumfrence, encircling the star. Technically speaking it doesn't have to be this distance from a star. That figure assumes Sol - or a Sol-like star - and that you want the same kind of temperatures as evidenced on Terra... Anyway, food for thought... ;D Kage |
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 25, 2004 10:01:38 GMT -5
One reason that the fluff I wrote seems to be 40k cliche is that it is. My attempt was to make Altarra fit into the background of 40k, unlike many of my friends homeworlds. All my background is changable to fit a suitable location in the sector. I'm currently trying to find a proper system to use as Altarra.
In regards to the Altarra's government, it is based on Heinlein's Starship Troopers with Greek influences. Each city has only 100 Senators, with the number of Citizens and Civilians they represent changing each election.Likewise, each city only sends one Representitive to the planetary council. My use of 1/100 was perhaps confusing. Altarra is a Representitve Democracy, not a Direct one.
Losing technology is not a required fluff element. Did most of the worlds in the Anargo sector keep their technology base? If so, this could account for the use of Valkyries and other vehicles used by Altarran Regiments.
Altarra was inspired by a trip to Idaho this summer, and with that the concept of three regiment organizations came up: Air Cavalry, Mounted Cavalry, and Armored Cavalry. From there, I decided that Altarra's people would be a independent sort, living on farms and indifferent to affairs outside their sphere of knowledge. Only those who stepped out of their isolation and joined the military could grasp the peril of humanity, and thus proved themselves worthy to lead Altarra's people.
No ringworld? No problem. I figured that wouldn't be accepted, but no biggie.
Dinoman
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Post by zholud on Jan 25, 2004 13:54:07 GMT -5
Ringworld the concept which was created by Nebula and Hugo prize winner Larry Niven in his dilogy. One of the inappropriate ideas for such a world is great area it covers (hundreds of Earth surfaces), so it would be as large as the rest of sector. The books are worth reading and I drop you a copy, Minister if interested. World type most likely would be Civilised world, because we got mix of medieval stuff and modern weaponry. The amount of population is upon decision of world owner of course. Government – you could add a little twist here with Athenian-type democracy, when rulers were chosen by dice for short period of time. Such a flavour of real world I like. p.s. anmd of course, hello and welcome!
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 25, 2004 14:25:28 GMT -5
Altarra is a Civilized world, no question about it. I've had a bit of difficulty locating system with the right attributes. How flexible are the stats found on the other forums? I understand that the idea is to take what the dice give you and make a story out of it, but that limits your ideas if the dice don't go your way. IMHO, if someone has gone through the time and effort to develop fluff, they shouldn't have to change the story just to fit a few silly dice rolls. Story first, dice second.
-Dinoman
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Post by CELS on Jan 25, 2004 17:03:43 GMT -5
Well, let me give you an example from the Proteus subsector. In the Proteus forum, you'll find a thread called 'Introduction to the Proteus subsector'. In the first post of this thread, you'll find a list of all the mainworlds in the Proteus subsector. Each mainworld is the most important world from a starsystem, so there is one star system for each mainworld. On my list, you'll find the worlds in the list looking like this example. 5,29,19 - M-V - B969833-6 S 803 Im 1E(24)Very large world (9), standard atmosphere (6), wet world (90%), Hundreds of millions citizens (8), Self-perpetuating oligarchy (3), Low law, machine guns prohibited (3), Tech level 6, Protocellular life (1), extremely rich resource base (E), exporting cybernetics (24) Factory world.
Land is very expensive on this world, so poor people live at sea, some in small boats, others in floating cities or drifting ghost ships. Law level is moderate in cities, and almost unchecked at sea. Still, the poor seafaring people are never allowed to become powerful enough to actually present a threat to the Imperial cities or trade convoys, which are both heavily armed.
Most of the landmass on this world consists of large island groups with small individual islands, and as a result the planet’s Imperial Guard regiments are experts at amphibious warfare and often trained as drop troops. Other than providing the Imperium with skilled Imperial Guard regiments, this world is a highly productive factory world, building countless Imperial Guard tanks and vehicles, as well as Navy aircraft and a multitude of non-military equipment.Now, the codes in red are the statistics which have been generated by Kage using a special program. To read these statistics, you will need the UWP guide, which can be found in this World-building forum. Fortunately, I have translated these statistics for the worlds in my subsector, and you'll find the translation in green. The stuff in orange is my suggestion for the concept for this world. You can follow my suggestion, or make a suggestion of your own. Two things. 1) I don't believe the others have translated the statistics like I have, so it's a good idea to download the UWP guide and see if you find worlds that better suit your interests in all the subsectors. 2) As you've mentioned, we don't always follow the roll of the dice. We just use the dice to get a realistic and varied Imperial sector, without the typical GW clones. Not every world in the galaxy is either a desert world, ice world or earth-like paradise. The things we do not want you to meddle with, of the statistics presented above, is planet size, atmosphere, and hydrosphere. The other stuff can be modified if you wish, but we still suggest that you try to compromise between your own idea and the stats given for each world. It'll seem daunting at first, but it can actually turn out pretty interesting. For example, by the roll of the dice, my forgeworld was given an ellipsoid atmosphere, which really gave the world a unique climate, among other things. So download the UWP guide, and have a look around. PS: The Proteus subsector wants you!  |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 25, 2004 19:18:26 GMT -5
IMHO, if someone has gone through the time and effort to develop fluff, they shouldn't have to change the story just to fit a few silly dice rolls. Story first, dice second. A reasonable point. But the problem here is in the approach... The world described above is interesting in the fact that it is a cliche. It is the standard world if you are to believe (and I don't) GW. This is not a bad thing. It is for this reason alone that I would not be necessarily keen on simply changing the world stats to what you wanted... Why? They are designed there to inspire variation, not just the standard cloning that I see throughout GW 'fluff'. (Indeed, it is not uncommon for me to look at some of the creations and consider them to be "silly 'fluff' creations" that could have done with some more consistent guidelines...) The irony here is that your 'cliche' world (again, not a bad thing) could be used to illustrate how much that cliche could vary as a result of the consistent application of established guidelines... These are not meant to be restrictive but they are meant to control some of the more dubious aspects of the 40k universe (including the tendency to have systems with multiple-inhabited worlds as a standard)... Pop into the capital subsector and I'll find an appropriate world. Remember that if push comes to shove the story is important. But if you're concept is so intractable as to not be reactive to interesting 'mechanical' suggestions, then perhaps it is not the system that is in error, but the intractibility of the concept...? Kage |
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 25, 2004 19:49:19 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I understand the mechanicus of the project better now.
CELS, I'd love for Altarra to be in the Proteus Subsector. I've always felt that Altarra has strong ties to the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Kage, I'll post the outline for Salinas in the Capital Subsector sometime in the next few days. Perhaps that can offset the loss of Altarra?
-Dinoman
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Post by Minister on Jan 26, 2004 9:04:17 GMT -5
Small points, which are only slightly related but which have been brought up:
1. That picture is of a necromundian guardsman in out-hive gear.
2. I'm thinking of suggesting that the Govrontere Arms Corporation has bought rights to the Cadian pattern armour, which it supplies to several worlds in the sector.
3. To me the name "rangers" suggests light infantry units and stealth units, quite possibly drop troops but not heavy infantry. I would suggest either altering the name ("Pioniers" might even work) or switching them to being lighter troops.
4. I'm going to have to translate all of my systems, it seems. Ah well.
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Post by CELS on Jan 26, 2004 9:14:05 GMT -5
1. The picture is also flipped, I believe. The soldier should be turned to the right 2. Sounds very commercial to me. Do you see factory worlds buying rights to produce Leman Russ and lasgun patterns? I'm not so sure about this... 4. It's actually not that much work, and a nice way to learn to the stats by heart |
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