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Post by CELS on Jan 30, 2004 19:34:46 GMT -5
Gentlemen, Dinoman raised the point of planetary/orbital defences, and I think we need to address this now, and discuss what kind of defences are appropriate for our Imperial worlds. Obviously, a hive world will have better defences than a feral world (which might have nothing at all), but I think we should come up with some sort of guidelines, maybe for each world class? For those of you not acquainted with BFG, the different planetary defences are... - Orbital weapon platforms, armed with torpedoes, lances or batteries of various weapons. Basically guns with life-support, maybe some hundred meters long.
- Mines
- System ships, not capable of interstellar travel. These are usually manned by the PDF, and are inferior to Navy ships in armament, targeting systems and engines. Escort-size.
- Defence monitor. Dedicated Navy defence ships. Slow, but heavily armed and armoured. Escort-size.
- Space Station. The category of space stations include both commercial and military shipyards, AM research facilities, Naval command bases and stations built purely for habitation. The only kind of space stations that can be considered as planetary defence, are the ones controlled by PDF, AM or Navy, and these are usually well armed and armoured, and often the size of capital ships.
- Orbital docks. Though usually loading and unloading points for interstellar trade, civilian travel, etc, orbital loads can be used to launch military craft, and to repair and resupply military craft in times of war.
So does anyone have any suggestions on how we should do this? Minister, I imagine you'll want to make your opinion known on this matter, as the Secretary of Naval affairs   |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 30, 2004 20:06:48 GMT -5
There is an obvious answer to this: Point yourself to the concept of "Might Empires" in the 40k universe. The complex wargaming side of things and how it relates to the RPG is significant to say the least... Kage |
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Post by CELS on Jan 31, 2004 5:57:25 GMT -5
Ok, Kage, just move this to the wargaming forum then, if you want.
Yeah, I guess we could do this based on the BFG system. Here's what the BFG campaign rules allow for various planetary defences;
Forgeworld - D6+1 x (D6x5) pts = 10 - 210 pts
Hive world - D6 x (D6x5) pts = 5 - 180 pts
Civilised world - D6-1 x (D6x5) pts = 0 - 150 pts
Uninhabited - D3-1 x (D6x5) pts = 0 - 60 pts
Agri-world - D6-2 x (D6x5) pts = 0 - 120 pts
Mining world - D6-2 x (D6x5) pts = 0 - 120 pts
Penal colony - D6 x (D6x5) pts = 5 - 180 pts
Feral world - D3 x (D6x5) pts = 5 - 90 pts
Feudal world - D6-2 x (D6x5) = 0 - 120 pts
Outpost/research world - D3 x (D6x5) = 5 - 90 pts
Death world - D6-2 x (D6x5) = 0 - 120 pts
Note- This is the minimum and maximum for each planet class. The ones in italic were written by myself, based on the ones written by GW. If you're using this system to calculate what defences your planet will have, don't immediately look at the maximum amount allowed. Not every civilised world in the sector should have a military space station in orbit.
These can then be spent on planetary defences at your discretion. Here are the point costs
Orbital weapon platforms - 30 pts
Orbital mine (self-propelled) - 5 pts
Minefield - 40 pts
System ship - 20 pts
Defence Monitor - 60 pts
Orbital dock (military)- 90 pts
Space Station (military) - 150 pts
Planetary defence laser/missile silo - 15/5 pts
Planetary military air base - 20 pts
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 31, 2004 10:26:14 GMT -5
I actually like the BFG system a lot, but think the numbers are too low. I recommend that the value be doubled for space defenses, and at least tripled ground based defenses like Silos and Air bases, because in BFG these are placed in one table edge and do not represnt the total # of defenses, only the amount where the invasion is taking place. For example:
BFG Blue book max, Forge world: 210 points
ASP orbital defenses: 410 points
ASP gound based defenses: 630 points.
-Dinoman
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Post by CELS on Jan 31, 2004 10:40:18 GMT -5
That's a good point. I think we should restrict certain types of defences to certain world types though. Such as, no defence monitors and military space stations for agri worlds, and mostly orbital weapon platforms for feudal worlds, feral worlds and dead worlds (if these are given any defences at all)
I don't know about doubling it though. Maybe multiplying it by 1,5. Most of these defences can actually move, to some degree, I would say.
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Post by Zidagar Dinoman on Jan 31, 2004 11:00:25 GMT -5
That's a good point. I think we should restrict certain types of defences to certain world types though. Such as, no defence monitors and military space stations for agri worlds, and mostly orbital weapon platforms for feudal worlds, feral worlds and dead worlds (if these are given any defences at all) I don't know about doubling it though. Maybe multiplying it by 1,5. Most of these defences can actually move, to some degree, I would say. I just think that the most valuable world (civilized and up) would have more protection than GW allows them Perhaps a multiplier based on their tithe grade or export value? The richer they are, the more defenses they can buy. BTW: How are is the Anargo Sector Navy stationed? I was wondering how often light cruisers and patrol ships check a system out for trouble. -Dinoman |
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Post by Tynesh on Mar 30, 2004 3:47:59 GMT -5
Just found this and would like to say that I think that no world below civilised world with tech level of 7 should really have defences, they seem just too expensive/big to have in orbit around a feral world or feudal world.
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Post by Minister on Mar 30, 2004 7:07:08 GMT -5
FOr the most part, perhaps, but if there is a special case(such as a Mechanicus research facility or even an orbital residing nobility) then that could be relaxed a mite.
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Post by CELS on Apr 1, 2004 8:28:33 GMT -5
I disagree, Tynesh. Some worlds might have a great value to the Imperium, despite their low tech level. Agri-worlds, garden worlds and even mining worlds or feudal worlds.
Covering these worlds with missile silos and weapon batteries would be a waste of resources, I imagine, but placing a few of Imperial system ships or Navy "Defence Monitor" ships in orbit sounds feasible. Of course though, this would depend on the threat-level of nearby aliens or known pirates!
If you don´t have any defenses, aliens like Dark Eldar and Malika´s hunter race are going to have a field day. You also want to watch out for rebellions or chaos cults, even on these low-tech world, which is why the Arbites is everywhere.
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Post by Minister on Apr 3, 2004 13:20:21 GMT -5
My old idea for a guide, which I'm not happy with but which is better (just) than nothing and might make a start:
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 3, 2004 17:56:31 GMT -5
As always, Minister's work is exemplary though I still worry about the use of completely 'random' rolls and prefer the use of ranges instead. I also would like to credit Tynesh for suggesting an integration into the TTL/GTL system advocated by the Guide. My personaly thanks on that one. Erm, but I'll leave it there since it's late... Just thought that I would say a big "hey, thanks!" for those people who are more than willing to not only work on those parts of the 40k universe which are completely alien to me but also not mind it when the 'fluff'-lover sticks his foot in! Kage |
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