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Post by hairyheretic on Mar 22, 2004 5:27:26 GMT -5
Given the extreme xenophobia rampant within the Imperium, is there really a need for minor alien races?
My understanding of the Imperium is that the only good alien is a dead alien, and the ones that are still alive are only alive because they're either
a) useful to the Imperium in some way (ie kroot mercs)
or
b) too powerful to wipe out (though probably not for lack of trying - ie orks, eldar etc)
So, not trying to slap down anyones ideas, but are alien races likely to exist within this sector? How does the Imperium justify their continuing existance?
Let the discussion begin.
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Post by malika on Mar 22, 2004 5:48:28 GMT -5
They Imperium doesnt always have the power to destroy them all..they are too busy fighting Orks and Chaos for example.
Another thing is, is that the Imperium might not know where these aliens originate from, the Imperium is a large place to hide.
The Unibians for example dont have a home world, but have many small bases and fleets spread throughout the galaxy.
The Kasachidur homeworld is hidden in the Cursed Subsector, the Imperium doesnt really come to there and actually attack the planet, they dont even know the Kasachidur homeworld is there.
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Post by CELS on Mar 22, 2004 6:11:11 GMT -5
From what I've read in novels (and particularly Abnett's), there seem to be a lot of more alien races lurking about within the Imperium than Eldar, Orks, Kroot, Necron and Tau. We just don't hear about them.
So, the only aliens that are alive are alive because they're too powerful to wipe out, or because the Imperium has not found them or their homeworld(s) yet, OR "because they're useful to the Imperium in some way"....?
The last one is rather interesting, and something that I've been wondering about for a little while now. Who decides if they're useful enough to live? It is conceivable that some alien races are useful not because of their mercenaries (kroot), but because of their trading (Unibians?)...
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Post by malika on Mar 22, 2004 6:21:56 GMT -5
Well..I assume you have read my thread about the Unibians, they are traders, the Imperium isnt their primairy client, because of it's xenophobic nature, but there have been cases that the Unibians traded with local Imperial commanders.
The Unibians also supply mercenaries, they mainly supply Kasachidur hunters, but Orks and Kroot are also known to be hired out by them.
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Post by hairyheretic on Mar 22, 2004 8:24:47 GMT -5
OR "because they're useful to the Imperium in some way"....? The last one is rather interesting, and something that I've been wondering about for a little while now. Who decides if they're useful enough to live? It is conceivable that some alien races are useful not because of their mercenaries (kroot), but because of their trading (Unibians?)... My guess would be that the local government would. This could be the military, civilian or religious authorities. Too add even more confusion, an alien tolerated in one sector could have a bounty on its head in another, depending on the local attitudes. |
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Post by malika on Mar 22, 2004 8:57:19 GMT -5
Exactly...places which are very religious would probably have no aliens at all, but more "free" places would maybe have alien traders and all that stuff.
The Unibians for example try to avoid the Imperium most of the time, maybe sending a small ship to a planet for secret trade, but mostly they trade with rogues, pirates, aliens.
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Post by Sikkukkut on Mar 22, 2004 10:32:10 GMT -5
I think that mainstream Imperial society is supposed to toe the "good=dead" line pretty strictly with xenos. The Inquisitor book opens its section on Rogue Traders by saying that the charters those Traders use were originally conceived specifically to "limit the moral pollution caused by contact with aliens and non-Imperial cultures."
So if a Rogue Trader comes back from a run through wildspace with goods that look suspiciously like they were bought, not taken, the Adeptus will probably turn a blind eye most of the time. If the local Imperial governor says "you know what, Trader Bloggs has done pretty well with those Kreepazoids, and they seem nice enough to deal with, so I've gone ahead and signed a deal to trade for those ore crystals they dig up" then he'll likely be looking at the wrong end of an Arbites shotgun/Sororitas bolter/Inquisitorial warrant before long.
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 22, 2004 18:21:17 GMT -5
The simple answer to the question is that the Imperium is, self evidently, far more "porous" than someone would like to suggest. They have an idea that because the Imperium has a 'boundary' defined by the Astronomican that they control all the space therein and as a result of their xenophobic policies that there must therefore be no aliens within. Abnett's Saruthi example gives the lie to this if you want a BL version, but also the orignal articles in WD139/140. Consider also the corrolary information on BFG and, if you will, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy... Paraphrased: "Space is big. Really big. In fact, you wouldn't believe how mind-numbingly big space was. I mean, you thought a trip down to the local store was a long way, but that's peanuts compared to space..." There is a lot of space out there and thus a great deal of room for 'minor alien races', although of course we wouldn't want to go down the Star Trek route and have every planet with its own sentient or proto-sentient race! One must also remember that the structure of the Anargo sector has all of the Imperial subsectors on the 'outside' of the sector... there is plenty of space in the middle, although it might not exactly be the 'safest' of grounds. Kage |
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Post by Caladors on Mar 23, 2004 4:45:28 GMT -5
well as is my belife and understanding the imperuim is strick on it's xenophobic code.... as long as it's there.
they worlds of the imperuim often are far from there support and the culturial infulance on there worlds.
so as long as your far enough away to make sure the imperuims back is turned you can do under the counter deals with alsorts inculding alines.
also alot of aliens are really good at hiding, some simply haven't gained any notice and some are more powerful then they seem and a small fleet finds to say the least strong ristance.
i mean look at the tau there not big enough to take imperium on full ball however they surive enough by postion and taking a stand on a few worlds and being smart enough when to back off.
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Post by CELS on Mar 24, 2004 7:43:13 GMT -5
I know that space is big, and a discussion on Portent has led me to believe that it is common for the Imperium to form a truce with aliens who they do not have the resources to destroy (at the moment).
I was more concerned with the actual trade though. Sikkukkut mentioned a useful point about rogue traders being used to limit the corruption brought by aliens, but what about their wares? Are xenos wares permitted as long as they're brought by human rogue traders?
We've all seen mention of jokaero and Eldar goods in the Imperium, but these are too expensive to be sold to the general populace anyway. So what about cheaper goods. Would the Inquisition permit a rogue trader to sell Kroot chocolate bars to some kids, for example?
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Post by malika on Mar 24, 2004 16:49:59 GMT -5
Well...they might be sold to the richest in the Imperium.
But trade between the Imperium and Alien races would be very rare to none I think. The Imperium is big enough to get it's own resources. They are too scared of Xenos foods and spices.
Xenos slaves? very maybe but still, that would be on such a small scale that you could count that out as nothing...I mean a thousand slaves would be nothing compared to the immense size of the Imperium.
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