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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 14, 2004 16:35:12 GMT -5
Other than the fact that it is two TLs beyond anything that they can produce and based off an energy system that they cannot even guess at? Again, the specific nature of these are interesting to discuss and would ultimately have an impact upon the interpretation of the eldar of the craftworld colony, Tir'asur... And incidentally, it might be interesting to go for a 'large creature/symbiont' for naming purposes... Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 15, 2004 3:36:22 GMT -5
There's a neat little story about an Eldar fleet risking a direct confrontation with Port Maw itself in BFG, to destroy a cruiser wreck which the Imperials had salvaged. The Eldar obviously think that things could be learned from it.
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 8:58:29 GMT -5
I haven't read BFG since it would require giving GW money, which I'm wary of doing since I always feel that it is a good thing to get what you pay for... Fair enough comment, however. I'm reminded of Terminator 2 where even a broken piece of processor is enough to send the scientists in "new and radical directions". So, we're fairly up on the fact that this 'scout ship' - one has to wonder why the bugger really needs to be 200m long, though (!) - has at least two sub-craft. Hmmn, indeed, the 'scout ship' idea might be fairly defunct based upon the length. For some reason a 200m long scout ship reminds me of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle as presented in Pentagon Wars: (paraphrased) "...a scout that's too big to scout, too lightly armoured to be a tank, too small to be an armoured personnel vehicle, and with a gun so big that it's going to draw fire from every tank on the battlefield..." The eldar need not subscribe to the 40k wargame logic of "big is better". There are separate reasons why Imperial ships tend to be large beyond the fact that they cannot build them small... Perhaps a revision of the concept beyond the scout vessel would be useful? What about a small fighter support craft? Perhaps these fighters also subsequently 'double' as mid-range scouts for the eldar. I really don't want to tie too far into the "Vyper" image and the subsequent influence of 'grav tank' into the imagery. Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 15, 2004 9:08:17 GMT -5
That was something I had in mind. I was toying with the idea of giving this thing a hangar bay of small patrol craft; a general sci-fi idea that I've been musing over since encountering a Corvette Tender in Starfleet Command.
Basically a light spacecraft responsible for conveying a fighter group to a location and giving them logistical support. I like the idea of a long-range probing group like this being extremely well-equipped in terms of hardware, having a large hold full of aircraft, heavy weapon platforms, perhaps even a tank or two.
Perhaps three or four, three-person, Waveserpent-sized fighter craft?
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 10:07:45 GMT -5
I'm thinking more of four externally mounted fighter/scouts, recessed into the main forward superstructure. Any more and the ship would have to increase... So in some way it would still count as a 'scout vessel', just one with some teeth. Remembering, of course, against any Imperial ship of equal displacement the eldar vessel is more than likely going to be able to wipe the nose of the Imperium... Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 15, 2004 14:08:16 GMT -5
Or that. I guess the Eldar vessel doesn't need to keep everything securely inside because it doesn't use the Warp...
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 17:29:58 GMT -5
Even human ships don't have to do that, to be fair. Much of the 'fluff' is about control as much as anything else when it comes to Imperial ships. But that's an aside. What other "images" do you have of the ship, then? I'm thinking power systems, propulsion systems, control systems, environmental controls, accommodation, etc., etc. There is a whole lot of flexibility in GURPS Vehicles! Furthermore, some of the answers here might begin to address the concepts being discussed in the "Eldar Sourcebook" at the moment, so that's always useful as well! Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 16, 2004 11:12:18 GMT -5
I guess the oh-so-cliched Glowing Blue Bits are out of the question?
Seriously; I'd have to draw things and make it up as I went along, which I'm not very good at.
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Post by Minister on Apr 16, 2004 11:52:46 GMT -5
I stand by Gravametric Drives.
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 16, 2004 13:11:50 GMT -5
As an alternative to, or as a pseudonym of solar sails?
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 16, 2004 14:09:42 GMT -5
Wha? It does seem the best thing to do. (Out of interest, how do you stand on Imperial drives? Erm, other than with your feet...) I'm afraid that sheer logic will not let us use 'solar sails'. They quite simply would not work as a significant means of propulsion, most especially if one considers that eldar vessels are meant to be more manoeuverable than Imperial ships... The 'ship mast' must be retained, so perhaps it would be more productive to think about what it could be...? And perhaps it has reached the time that we should shift this particular discussion to the Factory? Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 16, 2004 14:29:36 GMT -5
I had always thought solar sails should be a power source, rather than a drive mechanism. This fits quite neatly with the Eldar's variable maneuvrability in BFG, although the opposite way round. Flanks presented towards the sun, power uptake should be highest and thus speed the greatest. This isn't the way it is in BFG, but it's a start.
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 16, 2004 15:53:04 GMT -5
A good answer... with only one minor, tincy-wincy little problem: solar cells are not going to generate the type of power that a large starship is going to require. This is a rather vague calculated based upon hazy recollections of what a wraith ship looks like as well as it's dimenions (i.e. it assumes that they are comparable to that of the Gothic-class that I remember from Space Fleet)... Anyway, I seem to recall that the mast structure of the primary sail was ~2/3 the beam length of the ship, so (ish) that's around 2km (pretty but completely useless). The base horizontal reach of the sail extends for, say, 0.8km but let's call it 1km for ease. Assuming a right angle for the sail (it's not) then that's 1 km 2 of sail... (We're being generaous since not only is it not a right angled triangle, it isn't really a triangle; but it's close enough). I'll just say that the second sail is around 2/ 3 that of the main sail, but again let's be generous and say 3/ 4. So that's 0.75km 2. Okay, we'll also assume that both surfaces are collectors, so that doubles our available power-generating area to 3.5km^2. Now admittedly this is just one game system, but from GURPS Vehicles (which I'll be using) TL9+ solar cells 1ft. 2 generates 0.08kw. Bugger... I hate games that don't use SI units ( ). Okay. 3.5km 2 is around 3.767369x10 7km 2. So that's 3013895.2 kW or 3013 MW... Okay, I'll shut my mouth about that one. 3010 MW is quite a substantial amount of energy to be generated! (Out of interest, the Imperial ship that I quickly designed - it's a bit glitchy I freely admit - had a power requirement of only 37MW...) Of course, using solar power is going to cause it's own problems. The above figures are for a star with stellar luminosity 1 at 1AU. Monkey around with either of these and you're going to be in trouble again... Damn good idea, however (actually the best I've ever heard which combines interest and minimises 'fluff' impact)... But the ship 'speed' isn't really going to vary as a function of going to or from a star, though. Surely? The 'thrust' generated by the sails is going to be negligible given their size (i.e. ~5lbs of thrust for both 'sails')... One other thing... If power provides motive thrust (i.e. through 'grav drives') and a reduction in power reduces that thrust, what is to prevent the eldar from having humongous rechargeable power cells? If we also assume that the eldar have a degree of intelligence, why would they utilise a drive system which is so inherently flawed? The further you go away from a star the less energy you can dedicate to the drive system so either you clamp down on 'life support' (or whatever) or you go sloooowwww... That and the fact that you're even more restricted when it comes down to star type. The greater majority of stars are main sequence M-type. You're operating at half the luminosity there and then. Of course, a counter-argument is that the eldar are restricted to worlds with favourable conditions and only play around in the life zone anyway, so what's the problem. I'm just not sure whether that is entirely appropriate. Thoughts? Kage
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Post by Skabbhatt on Apr 16, 2004 16:15:16 GMT -5
3010 MW per what? The notion of rechargeable power cells seems to me as a solution, if a quite shaky one. It would be limited as a kind of electric cars, assuming they spend more energy then absorbing. Assuming quite much infact. ;D Of course this could be suiting for the rather limited fleets of the craftworlders. The question arises how they move in the Webway? Pushing the ship? Eldar-esque powerlines? Another reason could also be pure aesthetics, a heritage from ancient sailors... Combined with solar cells maybe it would work.
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 16, 2004 16:21:15 GMT -5
I always thought the sails looked quite solar panel-like.
I'm confident that you could chuck even a 3km starship at a fair turn of speed with 3GW of power...
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