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Post by Dazo on Sept 18, 2004 17:23:21 GMT -5
Ok a few points I need cleared up. what is the Imperium. I mean who is actually in charge, who runs it, it was the Emperor a god like being of unparalled vision and scope, it now seems to be run by anal retentive pencil pushers WF happened. Is the inquisition the final word, is it the mechanicus, is it the administratum, is it the high lords, what, what is it. This is my view, highlords=sector lords/commanders/governors=sub sector commanders/governors=planetary governors. These are the people who decide what happens, the adminisratum is the cement that sticks all these bricks together, no more. Yes they decide things, but they they should be able to be overruled by the people in charge, it should not be the other way round.  What is the law. is there any law other than might makes right. Is there a set law that everyone is beholden to, or can those with warships simply choose to ignore it.  Is the mechanicus part of the imperium or an equal partner  Is each imperial world an island, with no contact or history with any other world in the imperium. Are worlds allowed to talk and interact with one another. Can people move between the worlds of the imperium, and to what extent. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 19, 2004 19:16:25 GMT -5
What are you actually after, daz0? Many of the questions here are being discussed elsewhere. If I was to engage in cynical (harsh cynical rather than normal cynical) then... An imagery construct which is given both longevity and survivability as a product of setting rather than what I consider 'believable'. Seriously? It is a collection of 'states' which in many ways you could argue as operating on the same function as the USA... The Golden Rule applies here. The bureucracy... system and tradition. And a person with the best spin-doctors... The Emperor allowed humanity to exist... people are idiots as groups. They negotiate their existence... like all groups. You mean it's a kind of parasitic entity? Yes, of course there is. The Golden Rule. Wargame="Might is right", everything else is "Golden Rule". Check out history with the concept of 'humanity' in mind. It's part of the Imperium... and not. One of those negotiating groups, again. Self-evidently not. Not only from the 'fluff' but also from the premises of the ASP. Where have you been?  Erm, hello? Astropathic network? Also, it is obvious from the 'fluff' that rumours to 'spread'... [ Self evidently. <insert interpretation here> Or, in other words, whatever you want. I'm more interested, daz0, in why you've tried to draw together into a single thread many of the discussions which are 'ongoing' - inasmuch as anything is ongoing - in other threads? |
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Post by Dazo on Sept 20, 2004 3:28:37 GMT -5
Because they are fragmentory, your can't discuss the place of any of them without talking about the other groups. I either don't see that in other threads or I havn't found the tread with the relevant info. Oh and of course the most important reason, CELS told me to do it And is the term ongoing a colourful eufemism for locked, forgotten and stalled This stems from my Seleca thread, which has begun to be more problematic, I want to bring people from their origional homeworld, question is how. The administratum wouldn't allow it, i don't think, would the sector or sub sector governor allow it though. Who actually decides which way to steer worlds, could the people of Seleca do it of their own backs. Are people allowed to leave worlds devastated by war if the opportunity is given to them. Hence I asked if worlds were allowed to talk and interact with each other, and have or be allowed to have a history with each other. So does every world have these then. Arguing with people over this very point, so your saying if I want them to have oodles of contact with other worlds I can do so. And I get to decide what type and which people this contact is between Are administrations anything else like. They seem to have a disproportinate amount of power for what their job actually entails. The Inquisition, negotiate. I don't know kage, those two words just don't seem right when used together I would also say the same of the Mechanicus, and the astartes. Who do they actually negotiate with, not the imperium, because those three virtually are the imperium. The high lords seem to be rather redundant then wouldn't you say. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 20, 2004 6:28:45 GMT -5
Because they are fragmentory, your can't discuss the place of any of them without talking about the other groups. The only problem with such wide open threads is that they have a tendency to go OffT incredibly quickly. Oh and of course the most important reason, CELS told me to do it Context is always a useful thing... Why did he tell you to do it? And is the term ongoing a colourful eufemism for locked, forgotten and stalled Remember that in English the 'f' sound is often spelled with a 'ph'... I want to bring people from their origional homeworld, question is how. Starships... The administratum wouldn't allow it, i don't think, would the sector or sub sector governor allow it though. Again, context. Why wouldn't people be 'allowed' to travel? Who actually decides which way to steer worlds... Gravity normally does that. If you mean who determines the policy of an individual world than it is, self-evidently, the Imperial Commander. The Imperial Commander does not, of course, act in isolation. They are a part of the Imperium... though this, of course, depends on your interpretation of the 'fluff'. Are people allowed to leave worlds devastated by war if the opportunity is given to them. If they can get away, then yes... they can get away. Hence I asked if worlds were allowed to talk and interact with each other, and have or be allowed to have a history with each other. The answer to this is, once again, yes. So does every world have these then. Not every world. It is doubtful that, for example, Venus has an Astropathic Choir... but, yes, the Astropathic Network created by interacting Astropathic Choirs are present on significant worlds. It's, erm, kind of an integral part of the 'fluff'. If you believe the superficial 'fluff' then the Astropathic Network is responsible for "all" communications in the Imperium. Arguing with people over this very point, so your saying if I want them to have oodles of contact with other worlds I can do so. Depends on the situation, again. If you're going to argue that your world has a Battlefleet in excess of that of the Gothic, or indeed Anargo, sector then... no. A tempered approach to contact which takes into account the balance of the 'fluff' would be reasonable. Again, perhaps you should provide a tad more background information. And, no, telling me to look at Seleca isn't going to cut it. And I get to decide what type and which people this contact is between Context, again. But within reason I don't see a problem for this... again, I haven't read Seleca in sometime since I'm... erm... slightly busy at the moment. They seem to have a disproportinate amount of power for what their job actually entails. A skein of relationships and interaction... in other words, politics. The Inquisition, negotiate. I don't know kage, those two words just don't seem right when used together Hardy har har. Amalathians. Who do they actually negotiate with, not the imperium, because those three virtually are the imperium. The point being that they interact and 'negotiate' with each other. I'm not talking about bargaining here, of course. The high lords seem to be rather redundant then wouldn't you say. Only insofar as the 'head' is redundant on the human body. |
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Post by CELS on Sept 20, 2004 9:25:26 GMT -5
The reason I asked Dazo to start a new thread, is that he started discussing large questions in the Seleca thread. "Does the imperium activly seek to keep each world as an island?" I told him that he should start a thread to discuss that in the Imperium forum.
I did not intend for him to start a huge mega-thread that aims to answer all the important questions about the Imperium at once. Perhaps I should have specifically told you, Dazo, that it is best to start a thread for a single for each subject, and that it is best to start such threads with your own opinion, rather than open questions that are so big that no one can be bothered giving a good answer.
I'm just going to ignore most of your original post, Dazo, sorry, but on the Adeptus Mechanicus, let me say this...
The Adeptus Mechanicus is a part of the Adeptus Terra, which is pretty much the main organisation of the Imperium, as you probably know. Originally, the Cult Mechanicus was a seperate power, but they were united with the rest of the Imperium by the Emperor, whom they believed was closely connected to the Machine God because of his great wisdom and knowledge. (Of course, there are those who believe that the Adeptus Mechanicus consider the Emperor to be the Machine God, but let's not get into that here)
As millennia passed, factions rose in the Adeptus Mechanicus. Some within the AM feel that they should be (and are) a seperate power, an ally of the Imperium. Others feel a stronger loyalty to the Emperor, and consider themselves subordinate to the Throne.
The Adeptus Mechanicus is the most independent of the offices of the Adeptus Terra, but it is, in theory, still a part of the Imperium. In reality, things are often a bit different.
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Post by zholud on Sept 20, 2004 9:53:03 GMT -5
Seems I have to jump in and settle several points before Kage sarcasm keeps him here instead of making final touches on his thesis…  as Hiveworld sub-sector head I supervised creation of Seleca, an Agriworld, where people live in Sweden-type social economy, peaceful planet but with gun in every house and so on. After several re-writes, which actually improved the world, Dazo decided that I’m overly critical to him, that my view is overly limited if I say that Agriworld should not produce a lot of tech, from special uber-kewl lasguns to tanks and transports… so, what I say: - Dazo done a good worlds. He already has the most detailed write up within my sub-sector, which is almost SR archive ready.
- I’m vile person, who hasn’t given enough time to complete own worlds, be always on line discussing 4 worlds now under construction and so on. Maybe if I discussed more the world could be better.
- I proposed Dazo to pay Administratum a small fortune for allowing IG from this world to return there. This was done because Dazo wished military culture while my sub is quite peaceful and on this planet last conflict was 5,000 year or so ago. And they still hate Orks, who destroyed 1st settlers 10,000 year ago.
- industry and mining – Dazo desired expansion of his planet on whole system, with making profits for the private company under the nose of Administratum. I say mining colony is ok, but extensive mining planet needs own governor, so that planetary governor not equals system governor.
- hope it clears stuff somehow.
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Post by Dazo on Oct 8, 2004 12:31:37 GMT -5
Ok then another question, how does the whole astropath thing work, does one get sent out to every newly colonised world, or does a world have to hold some degree of importance to get an astropath/choir.
How fast would communication be in a sector, would it be instant.
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 10, 2004 18:54:31 GMT -5
Ok then another question, how does the whole astropath thing work... However GW wants it to do!? does one get sent out to every newly colonised world, or does a world have to hold some degree of importance to get an astropath/choir. One would imagine both. It depends on whether you see the AN as privileged, otherwise, or as no shades of grey between them. How fast would communication be in a sector, would it be instant. 'Fluff' suggests 1 light year per minute... ish. |
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Post by Dazo on Oct 11, 2004 3:44:52 GMT -5
I was hoping to get your opinion there, what do you think it is, or is it the case that you don't know either so you would be happy to go along with whatever I might decide is how the system works
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 11, 2004 5:00:26 GMT -5
<grin> It's always good to answer 'solidly' from the 'fluff' first and foremost, at least recently anyway! Once you've got that out of the way you can extrapolate.
Simply put I would argue that the 'degree of importance' of a world, measured through aestimare or whatever, determines the 'assignment' of an astropathic 'choir'. (I do despise that term 'choir'.) At the minimum level, the 'priviliged' of a world will have access to an Astropath (e.g. the Imperial Commander). Beyond that tactical significance and/or trade status would have an influence.
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Post by Dazo on Oct 11, 2004 5:19:38 GMT -5
So it sounds as if you are saying a world would have at least one astropath from the outset, so a world would be able to communicate with others from very early on in its history. So simply put the more important a world becomes the more astropaths it gets, but that confuses me, who gets to use all the extra astropaths, or does it mean that the imperial commanders astropathic coterie gets bigger. Would a choir be able to transmit further, and might that be seen as some kind of status symbol Its just what a group of astropaths are called, like a murder of crows or a murmuration of starlings or the oft forgotten dopping of sheldrake.... |
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Post by Dazo on Nov 6, 2004 19:02:31 GMT -5
Hahaha ;D what is with my guns you won't let me have any ;D And I should have aknoledged this praise immediatly. thank you zholud , I should point out that with out you Cels and Kage constantly hounding me to do better my worlds would not be what they are, so save some of that praise for yourselves Lol, damn right ;D Hahahah oh man, nah its cool man, you make me laugh so I forgive you |
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as Hiveworld sub-sector head I supervised creation of Seleca, an Agriworld, where people live in Sweden-type social economy, peaceful planet but with gun in every house and so on. After several re-writes, which actually improved the world, Dazo decided that I’m overly critical to him, that my view is overly limited if I say that Agriworld should not produce a lot of tech, from special uber-kewl lasguns to tanks and transports… so, what I say: