|
Post by CELS on Aug 4, 2004 23:51:47 GMT -5
I know this has been discussed before, on Portent and even on the ASP (to a certain degree, when discussing Anargo), but as I've been reading the novel Crossfire lately, which shows the duties of the Adeptus Arbites' on the hive world Hydraphur (sp?), I've realised that it's probably important that we all agree on the role and purpose of the Adeptus Arbites. If we already agree, then it will at least be useful to have it written in an easily accessible thread, so that someone comes up with a concept that does not conform, we can just direct them to this thread.
Now, I think we all agree that most of the law enforcing on most worlds is carried out by local law enforces, which come in all shapes and sizes - from the Enforcers of Necromunda to Auxiliaries on Archaios. On most worlds, the Arbites mostly function as the police of the police, making sure that the entire world (government and people) is following the Lex Imperialis.
Why and when do the duties of the Arbites change though, like they have on Anargo and Hydraphur? When do the Arbites assume a wider role?
|
|
|
Post by ErnestBorgnine on Aug 5, 2004 6:10:13 GMT -5
One of my favourite bits from Umberto Eco's Foucault's Pendulum is when the police detective shows up and introduces himself, "Police." . Our protagnist responds "Regular or political?"
That's pretty much how I see the Arbites. Murder, drugs, weapons, whatever, they're only the Arbites' problem or area of interest if they have political implications for the Imperium. Which means that if an Arbites shows up at your door, it is a very very bad sign.
|
|
|
Post by Sojourner on Aug 5, 2004 8:51:51 GMT -5
Note, the personal pronoun is Arbitrator
Which is odd, because there doesn't seem to be much exchange going on, generally Arbitrators are there to kill people.
The political thing sounds right, but I can in a way see the Arbites helping with training and directing local police forces to an extent - it's easier to maintain order if you take a proactive approach and squash problems before they arise.
|
|
|
Post by Minister on Aug 6, 2004 10:17:53 GMT -5
I can see the local police being more afraid of the Arbitrators than near anything else. Allright, there's a serial killer on the loose, at least three hundred victims and rising week on week, but do you really want to be the one to tell the Arbitrators that you can't keep the population under controll, and could they please come and do your work for them?
|
|
|
Post by ErnestBorgnine on Aug 6, 2004 10:55:34 GMT -5
Yup. And it becomes the Adeptus Arbites problem as soon as it looks like the public outrage over your failure to catch the perpetrator is going to lead to demonstrations, protests and civil unrest. Before that, unless he's killing off people that are important to the maintenance of the machinery of the Imperium, it's a local problem.
Edit: Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Arbites took particular interest in serial killers. After all, a lunatic convinced he's the spawn of satan is a local problem. If said serial killer is actually in contact with a daemonic power and is making ritual sacrifices to it, that's very much an Imperial problem. As would be an organized Chaos cult or Genestealers. There's all sorts of reasons why the Arbitators would keep an eye on murders with ritualistic elements or mutilation. Not that they'd do anything, but they'd want to be sure it wasn't something important.
|
|
|
Post by Minister on Aug 6, 2004 11:51:10 GMT -5
Although, a mass murderer is disrupting the smoth running of the planet, and so comes under their jusistiction. And if neither the locals or the Arbitrators can catch him and the numbers are really mounting, the men in the big coats and bigger hats from the Ordo will be knocking at both their doors, asking what's going on.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Aug 6, 2004 14:12:44 GMT -5
...And which once again ties into the "non-local", or at least segregated, imagery of the Imperium presence on an individual world. But, yes, I broadly agree with the above. The local police force does it's job and only when something impacts upon Imperium property, law or personages (including those with the 'ole connections) then the adeptus arbites can become involved...
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Aug 8, 2004 9:37:00 GMT -5
Like Kage, I'm broadly in agreement with the above. Having established this, I'll get to my point; What part does the Adeptus Arbites usually have in upholding the law, with and without the help of local law enforces which are not a part of the Adeptus Terra? I've finished Crossfire today and it left me pondering just how many Imperial worlds are like this (or like our own Anargo), with the Arbites having such an important function. So how do you see the presence of the Adeptus Arbites varying according to world type? They probably don't patrol the streets very often on feudal worlds, I imagine, but I guess they would have a far more visible presence on (sub)sector capitals and other very important worlds. By the way, I really liked Crossfire. My compliments to Mr. Farrer. A nice change of pace from other BL novels, and though it was a wee bit hard to follow at times (too political for a simple mind accustomed to bolter-action), it was very interesting to see the interaction between the branches of the Adeptus Terra on an Imperial world. Worth buying
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Aug 8, 2004 12:04:30 GMT -5
What part does the Adeptus Arbites usually have in upholding the law, with and without the help of local law enforces which are not a part of the Adeptus Terra? In local law? Not a great deal unless it crosses into their specific jurisdiction, i.e. the practised or legitimised contravention of Imperium law. I've finished Crossfire today and it left me pondering just how many Imperial worlds are like this (or like our own Anargo), with the Arbites having such an important function. On major worlds - subsector and sector capitals - I can imagine that their presence would be more marked, though that world still maintains its own individual social-history and the right to maintain whatever laws that it may wish... Anargo's rather 'unique' because of the utilisation of the original adeptus arbites in the 'Gaian Coup' and subsequent integration of adeptus arbites methodologies into the 'security forces' (e.g. broadly PDF). Tradition dictates a closeness between the Imperium adeptus arbites and the Anargan analogue... The actual adeptus arbites otherwise serves the same function as it does on other worlds but with a potentially higher 'presence'. Indeed, one might imagine that the size of the Imperium adeptus arbites contingent depends upon the population of the world (i.e. to become an effective 'backup force')... or something. Worth buying Keep on meaning to upgrade my collection. I think I'm currently missing about ten books from the collection...
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Aug 9, 2004 8:29:47 GMT -5
Worth buying Call me spammer, as it is quite off-topic but the second volume, Legacy is even better… it worth buying even if the Adeptus Mechanicus discussion in the middle were the sole spark in the novel (and it is certainly is not the only one). I even plan to write a review on it on BL site… great reading.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Aug 11, 2004 2:09:55 GMT -5
Erm, Zholud, saying it was the 'sole' spark does mean that it was the only one ;p [Very minor spoiler alert] In Crossfire, there's an incident where the Arbites are responsible for guarding a gate within a large city during a religious celebration. Is this not something that would normally be left to local law enforcers? Shall we assume that this was because they were protecting a celebration held by the Adeptus Ministorum, which they were protecting as part of the Adeptus Terra? What if this celebration was related to a local sports championship or the like? Does the Adeptus Arbites only worry itself with the protection of the Adeptus Terra on Imperial worlds, and significant local matters that interest the Imperium as a whole (such as rebellion, heresy or disobedience)? Can we agree that it would be silly for the Arbites to be trawling the streets for thieves, small time murderers (terrorists and dangerous serial killers are an obvious exception) and rapists? Or do they spend their time patrolling and helping out the local law enforcers, rather than waiting for someone to betray the Imperium?
|
|
|
Post by Sikkukkut on Aug 11, 2004 3:30:23 GMT -5
In Crossfire, there's an incident where the Arbites are responsible for guarding a gate within a large city during a religious celebration. Is this not something that would normally be left to local law enforcers? Shall we assume that this was because they were protecting a celebration held by the Adeptus Ministorum, which they were protecting as part of the Adeptus Terra? What if this celebration was related to a local sports championship or the like? I seem to recall that that was as part of a major Arbites crackdown after the first assassination attempt against Calpurnia, which some fo the characters comment on during that part of the book. You'll remember that the, er, incident at that gate was prompted when certain people panicked at seeing an Arbites blockade where they didn't expect one. I doubt that they'd bother supervising the crowds at the local farnarkling semi-finals or whatever. That said, I think that the Arbites probably have exactly as much scope to be involved in local affairs as they feel they need. There are some good lines in Terry Pratchett's "Watch" novels about how, if a cop wants to make trouble for you, he'll be able to look until he finds something. Even sitting quietly in a dark room probably makes you guilty of loitering. If the local Arbites commander feels that his forces are needed on every street corner, they can go out and patrol as part of a crackdown on Imperial-level offences like, oh, let's say "Failing to end each sentence of a conversation with praise for the divine Emperor". If circumstances are better served by the Arbites remaining in the precinct fortresses, then of course it's time to roll out the commandments that the Arbites remain aloof from petty local concerns and direct themselves to the higher calling of the Adeptus, and have them all come back in (pausing only to arrest any planetary cops who complain, since clearly that's an admission incompetence which is a crime before the Emperor ) The TEXT has been added to every single day for ten millennia. I'd say that using it to support any action, or exonerate any non-action, you care to name is just a matter of finding the right statute.
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Aug 11, 2004 4:35:50 GMT -5
Erm, Zholud, saying it was the 'sole' spark does mean that it was the only one ;p Side note – from what I recall ’if…were…then’ construction means that the situation noted if ‘if’ part hasn’t happened. Maybe natives should decide whether I’m wrong? In Crossfire, there's an incident where the Arbites are responsible for guarding a gate within a large city during a religious celebration. I think that situation in Crossfire is exclusion and not the rule. After all everything happens on Segmentum capital world and the Imperium cannot let it go loose as less important worlds. So, for sector capital and sub-sector capitals I assume existence of constant Arbites presence, especially in main city where Administratum servants are located. For all others I guess local enforcers and Arbites temporary visits are the way to go. and on Anargo Planet I expect existence of both Arbites and arbites in Kage interpretation, ones being closer to FBI and others to police… alas not exact comparison.
|
|
|
Post by Sikkukkut on Aug 11, 2004 20:16:10 GMT -5
I think that situation in Crossfire is exclusion and not the rule. "Exception". I agree with the general point that the Arbites would have a more hands-on role in areas and over events directly associated with the Adeptus, since the idea of being policed by planetary authorities would be a little galling for most Adeptus. I wanted to ask, though, where Hydraphur is written up as the Segmentum capital. I know it's singled out for a showy representation on the maps, but every actual reference I've seen in written text about Hydraphur, Kar Duniash, Bakka and Cypra Mundi refers to them as the military HQ of that Segmentum's Navy and that's it.
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Aug 11, 2004 21:27:12 GMT -5
"Exception". Ups, right I agree with the general point that the Arbites would have a more hands-on role in areas and over events directly associated with the Adeptus, since the idea of being policed by planetary authorities would be a little galling for most Adeptus. At the same time I guess they are more or less often supervise and intrude to areas usually left of Planetary Police (of any name) and local matters… it is also possible that the Imperium keeps off-worlders from Astrates in the capital-city of most civilised/hive/industrial planet that checks for smuggling, corruption, etc… because local police it much easier to be bribed. I wanted to ask, though, where Hydraphur is written up as the Segmentum capital. I just guessed that if it is IG and Navy operation centre and HQ, it is economic HQ as well. and the capital is often means HQ for economic, political and military in the country. Not always, I agree, but quite often.
|
|