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Post by Dazo on Jul 10, 2004 2:17:32 GMT -5
I have a few issues that i need some clarification on, what are the nature of tithes, meaning what form do they take, are they monetary or trade related. Who gets them, where do they go. If i have an agri world suppling mining colonies with food, is that considered the tithe or are tithes taken on top of this, if said mining colonies are the result of private industry.
I don't know if this is the right place to post this but i didn't know where else to put it
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Post by CELS on Jul 10, 2004 3:12:34 GMT -5
This is as good a place as any. This has actually been discussed elsewhere, so if you spend some time searching, I'm sure you'll find it. The answer to your question though, is that tithes consist of everything the individual world must pay to be a part of the Imperium. It is their taxes, to ensure that they are protected by the Emperor's forces, etc. Tithes can be payed in many different ways, with the most important ones being mined materials such as iron ore, agricultural wares such as fish, vegetables, or distilled water, industrial goods such as weapons for the Imperial armies, soldiers for the Imperial Guard or other forces, and monetary tithes. For your agri-world, there's a certain amount of food your world must tithe. This is assessed by the Adeptus Administratum, based on the qualities of the planet. Tithes are never so high that they'll actually choke the planet, leaving the inhabitants of an agri-world starving, etc. Well, maybe they are sometimes, but they're not supposed to be, because this is bad for the Imperium in the long run, obviously. Most worlds have enough resources to do lots of trade in addition to paying their tithes, so let's say your agri-world devotes 60% of its landmass to pay its tithes, growing potatoes, rice and herding grox. The rest can be used to sustain its own population, and to produce goods that can be traded with other worlds. For example, the world might use 5% of its landmass to bring up the rare delicacy of Massilian bull-frogs, and 5% to grow delicious silver-berries, which are all sold to wealthy citizens who can afford such food, on worlds around the sector. The world also needs to sell some of its goods to afford buying all the stuff that it needs to import, which the Imperium doesn't supply. The Imperium doesn't necessarily buy the best farming equipment for all its agri-worlds, for example. Your agri-world can buy high-tech farming equipment from Meksum, in order to make agri-culture more efficient, and thus afford to spend more lend on luxury food that can be sold. I hope this answers your question, and I hope Kage and zholud don't come crashing down on me now like a ton of bricks  |
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Post by Dazo on Jul 10, 2004 3:44:41 GMT -5
Yes, it helps a great deal,but can you tell me, when does the tithe grade get assesed, is when the colony is first founded or do they get a settling in period after which time the imperium comes back and says right this is what we want from you.
And also are tithes non negotiable, is their some lattitude if the goods they have begun to export, off their own backs as it were, significally contribue to the resources of the imperium, and that tithes that they might normally impose for a world of this type would have a detremental effect upon imperial efforts elsewhere
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Post by CELS on Jul 10, 2004 3:51:42 GMT -5
Yes, it helps a great deal,but can you tell me, when does the tithe grade get assesed, is when the colony is first founded or do they get a settling in period after which time the imperium comes back and says right this is what we want from you. I don't think there's actually anything about this in the books, but considering that all Imperial worlds have a staff of the Adeptus Terra, including the Adeptus Administratum, it's safe to say that the Administratum keeps somewhat up to date on calculating tithes. The Imperium doesn't "come back", because the Imperium never leaves Take Anargo, where the Imperial Conclave is a city with millions and millions of Adepts. They have a pretty good idea of what's going on. Well... the Imperium is far from perfect, and I'm sure you can imagine that the adminstration of a million Imperial worlds is quite complicated. I don't think the tithes are strictly non negotiable (even if the Administratum has the final say, you can always make a formal complaint. Of course, processing this complaint might take decades or centuries ), but I do believe there would be many incidents of an unreasonable Administratum, not willing to listen to a bunch of farmers who claim that lowering the tithes will benefit the Imperium. |
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Post by Dazo on Jul 10, 2004 4:04:35 GMT -5
Mmm quite right, it seems obviouse now youv'e pointed it, it is the imperium after all i don't know why i never thought of that
what if it wasn't the farmers doing the complaining though, i can imagine a powerful family's whose interests lie with not having the administratum interfere
in exported goods, might they not have more joy in bending their ear
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 10, 2004 7:30:09 GMT -5
What happens, on the scale of the ASP, to the tithe? Again I point out that it would be useful to work out (ish) the extent and potentially the direction of movement of 'tithes' rather than just acknowledging their existence, possibly saying that one world might get the goods from another as part of the tithe but otherwise hand-waving and sweeping it under the rug...
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Post by Dazo on Jul 13, 2004 23:31:24 GMT -5
It sounds like you have a few ideas on the subject, care to share, also what be the relation in terms of private taxes, as i assume everyone in the imperium must pay them, but i can't see how they would make any difference to the imperium itself, it not like the imperium runs out of money to buy things, thats what the fleets for
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Post by Sojourner on Aug 26, 2004 21:32:30 GMT -5
RE: Tithed soldiery
Do Imperial Guard formations always get tithed at a set time at set numbers, or is the tithe used as and when it's needed? In the former, I can see the possibility that Imperial Guard regiments may not leave the planet they're raised on, and remain responsible for garrisoning their own planet, if there is no neighbouring threat to transport them to.
1) Is this a problem, given that it's never been mentioned as far as I am aware;
2) If it is not a problem, can the concept be integrated into our ideas?
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Post by zholud on Aug 27, 2004 4:22:26 GMT -5
Do Imperial Guard formations always get tithed at a set time at set numbers, or is the tithe used as and when it's needed? For me there are three ways, all used in Imperium. - Fixed number or tithe as is should be meaning that when ship comes to planet it expects to get this precise number of troops because it has pre-set amount of food/water/air/recycling capacities/lasguns/clothes. Most of tithe done this way not to disrupt all our logistic nightmare.
- Gimme more cannon fodder approach, used for short periods during serious warfare, usually affecting planets closest in terms of safe warp travel to battle zone – you, as governor supply IG, than your PDF guys, than everyone caught on streets…
- What IG? version, when Imperium thinks that it is cheaper to leave would-be IG on the planet, mainly affects planets close to warp abnormalities that can cost you a transport, worlds with low population, etc.
I hope I’ve enlighten you on the subject.  |
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Post by Dazo on Aug 27, 2004 4:56:51 GMT -5
What might be useful zholud would be if you could list the subsectors and state which catagory they fall into using the model you have just described, then it would be easier when world building for people to look at that and see how regiments founded on the world they are creating would fit into the grand scheme of things
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Post by Sojourner on Aug 27, 2004 5:23:50 GMT -5
That wasn't really an answer, zholud. I'm not sure how I can make my question clearer, unfortunately.
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Post by CELS on Sept 2, 2004 10:24:13 GMT -5
There is no way Imperial Guard regiments are staying on their planet because there's no need for them, in my opinion. There's always need for more Guardsmen, and transport is not really a major issue, considering the size of Imperial ships, both military and otherwise.
Of course, if it is better for the Imperium to eliminate the Imperial Guard tithe, and let the planet make up for this in other ways, they will do precisely that.
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Post by zholud on Sept 6, 2004 5:44:03 GMT -5
What might be useful zholud would be if you could list the subsectors and state which catagory they fall into using the model you have just described The point is that I presented feasible alternatives, mentioning the conditions for the shift from one system to another. The usual take of predetermined share of PDF each year (1st option) is the most common case. If unsure where to set your planet, go here. The 2nd option is temporary decision during crusades, defence against green Kruzadez, similar stuff. used only temporarily, otherwise one not too beautiful day the world will run out of population. You can use it as temporary option especially at the Fortress sub-sector. The 3rd option works with Primitive/medieval worlds, world outside the established warp routes and worlds is relatively peaceful sub-sectors, e.g. Meksum. to CELS – my point is that if you can take only 500 solders from world A and return to war zone in 1 month and you can take 100,000 from planet B and return in 2 month, you will always choose planet BN as recruiting pool. Men can be free in Imperium (I mean costless), but transport services are still worth a small fortune.  |
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