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Post by Destecado on Jun 3, 2004 11:42:27 GMT -5
I know most if not all Space Marine Chapters hold trials to select their candidates, but whathappens to those that do not make it. Are the trials for the few slots open to be selected to become a Space Marine trials to the death or are there candidates that survive the trials and are rejected?
Do they have the chance to try again the following year or in what ever time frame the next trial is held. Are they instead incorporated into the IG or perhaps become outcasts from their society? What do the members think?
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Post by Minister on Jun 3, 2004 11:54:59 GMT -5
If they fail at the first hurdle (the induction trials) then, assuming they survive, they are free to re-join society in their former position, and I wouldn't think that there would be any problem with them re-applying the next time around if they are still eligable (unless the chapter or world has some cultural prohibition). Those who are deemed unsuitable for implantation after being accepted (but still pure of mind and soul) often gain a place as chapter serfs.
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on Jun 3, 2004 12:14:47 GMT -5
Although their ability to return to society depends on whether or not that society still exists (Doom Eagles seem to willfully destroy entire villages just to gain their recruits) or whether return is culturally acceptable at all (Dark Angels recruited from Ichar V, re Angels of Darkness; Space Wolves and the Choosers of the Slain). Those who fail the tests of mental fortitude (lure of chaos, etc.) are put to death or turned into servitors by techmarines/ironpriests; those who succumb immediately to "chapter curses" (Wolfen, Blood Rage, etc.) are probably hunted down and killed, or extensively analyzed and then "put down." Those who are deemed unfit for organ implantation are made chapter serfs, while those who receive implants may not "take" to them and will either die as a result of extreme immune reaction or be stabilized in some manner.
Those who fail initial physical trials but still live (eg, broken leg) are probably elligible for future recruitment, but bear in mind that they may be old and grey by the time the next recruitment rounds come.
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Post by CELS on Jun 3, 2004 12:22:46 GMT -5
This varies from chapter to chapter, I'm sure. I've heard (but not read, personally) that some chapters let failed recruits become chapter serfs. For the Space Wolves, those who fail are the ones who die, or those who do not get chosen by the Wolf Priests. For Dark Angels, those who fail go back to their normal life, though there is a story where a Dark Angel Marine snaps the neck of a recruit who doesn't dare to join them.
Erm, come to think of it... DesertGhostExarch has pretty much said it all, but it varies from chapter to chapter, of course. It also depends on the world.
Some worlds might take those unfit for organ implantation as storm trooper recruits, for example.
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Post by Lordof on Jun 3, 2004 23:53:33 GMT -5
The Imperial fists use failed initiates as Chapter Serfs.
So since the FrostWraiths are of IF stock are we suggesting this is how they get their Chapter serfs?
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Post by malika on Jun 4, 2004 2:58:10 GMT -5
I thought the Frostwraiths were Silver Skull, which is Ultra Marine geneseed
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Post by CELS on Jun 4, 2004 3:01:25 GMT -5
You are correct, Malika. Besides, I don't think the First Founding Chapter which the Frost Bringers have geneseed from should dictate their traditions when it comes to failed Space Marine candidates.
I suggest we add this to the list of things to figure out when the Index Astartes article is finished, and we have a better feel of the Frost Bringer theme.
Hopefully, it should be posted any day now, after Kage has given Sikkukkut the green light.
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Post by zholud on Jun 4, 2004 8:30:40 GMT -5
Not much to add, but in most places, where I meet failed aspirants in the text they either died/mutated or became serfs. Serfs from failed initiates are mentioned in Soul Drinkers and in Space Wolf. But most simply die/became mutated. I cannot recall any mention of one, who failed as SM and became some one important… after all he is a looser   |
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Post by Destecado on Jun 4, 2004 8:44:12 GMT -5
One thing that I was considering is the possibility of one of these serfs betraying the Frost Bringers to the Alpha Legion. It may be how they gained such detailed information on the Frost Wraiths in order to impersonate them in some engagements during the Age of Apostasy.
Perhaps it was done for the promise of maing him into a space marine (only of the Alpha Legion). Imagine working your entire young life towards a goal only to have it snatched away. To be told that you will no longer be a warrior, but a servant of warriors. Would this perhaps not turn some of these to chaos. Any thoughts?
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Post by CELS on Jun 4, 2004 9:08:00 GMT -5
My thoughts; Damn cool idea.
How would he come into contact with the Alpha Legion though? Chaos whispering in his ear?
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Post by Destecado on Jun 4, 2004 9:56:20 GMT -5
I'm still trying to work it out. One possibility I have considdered is that he came from a family that was still loyal to the Alpha Legion. I'm not saying that they are part of a chaos cult. Not all the cults that the Alpha Legion sets up need to be overtly chaos.
It could perhaps be a group with some form of political agenda or a minority religious or ethnic group on their planet of origin. The Alpha Legion could also have infiltrated secret societies. I'm sure that things like the Knights of Columbus or Masons exist even in the future.
The Alpha Legion was not always considered evil. They would have gathered recruits from this area of space prior to the Horus Heresy. Imagine the prestige of the family to have a son made into a Space Marine. Imagine having this then causing you to be ostrocized because the chapter turned to Chaos.
Some would probably still not beleive that the Alpha Legion were evil. They might still be helping them. A child born into such a family might have it drilled into his head from an early age that the Imperium had slighted his family. Maybe he tried to join the Frost Bringers to win back his family honor, only to be turned down and made into the servant....
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on Jun 4, 2004 12:07:51 GMT -5
Are inductees approached and psycho-doctrinated regardless of whether they become battle brothers or not, though? Or are inductees allowed to approach the chapter for application and receive no psycho-doctrination prior to entering into the chapter's more elite brotherhood? I've always liked the idea of a Total Recall story in 40k myself, though, but I'd hate to force that on anyone else...  |
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Post by Lordof on Jun 5, 2004 2:20:55 GMT -5
Yeah but that requires you to stuff a ball, which will shatter your nasal cavity, up into your head.  But i think a slighted Serf would be quite an interesting idea. The grand Warrior is now merely a servant yes that could piss off a few people and maybe make them slightly easier to turn to other avenues to persue their goals. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 5, 2004 3:18:23 GMT -5
I'm still trying to work it out. One possibility I have considdered is that he came from a family that was still loyal to the Alpha Legion. It's a possibility and I'm not suggesting otherwise, but I've always imagined that the security protocols of the adeptus astartes were somewhat... stringent. Admittedly records can be lost, or whatever, but it is a thought that should be considered. The Alpha Legion could also have infiltrated secret societies. I'm sure that things like the Knights of Columbus or Masons exist even in the future. Oh, they definitely exist. I'm keen on introducing various versions of the modern secret societies into the Anargo sector and, from there, give them links to other sectors and finally to Terra itself... Imagine having this then causing you to be ostrocized because the chapter turned to Chaos. Definitely a powerful image... but then if the family was ostracised then it might be doubtful that such an individual would be incorporated into a chapter for 'security' reasons. Again, though, identities can be hidden and records lost... Maybe he tried to join the Frost Bringers to win back his family honor, only to be turned down and made into the servant.... Now that I think about it, I cannot remember the FB IA having much information on integration of individuals into the Chapter, though that might have been on one of those poitns that I skipped over.  Have to check that out when I've got the laptop to hand... Kage |
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Post by malika on Jun 9, 2004 1:04:05 GMT -5
Im curious about these Serves, what do they look like? What would they wear?
I personally would like to see each Frost Bringer marine have like a Serve as his personal servant, but more on a "squire/knight" level.
Werent Serves also the crew of Space Marine space ships?
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