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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 20, 2004 5:44:06 GMT -5
Heya, been away far too long. School's out for the summer, and the Atlanteans are apparently stagnating , so I've decided to throw myself headfirst into making another planet, an Imperial one this time. During a thread on tidally locked worlds, I remembered an interesting idea for a planet. Unfortunately, the planet I described was not really a tidally locked world, so I was directed here if I wanted further discussion. I do. The basic idea was lifted from a Star Wars novel I read a while back. The planet in question orbited very close to a sun that gave off intense heat, making the light side uninhabitable. Even spaceships that approached the planet were fried/blinded by the radiation. But the planet was very rich in minerals of some sort, so huge mining cities were build atop sets of massive treads, which constantly moved the city around the planet to stay in the dark zone. Ships were protected by giant wall-cruisers, but that is not somewhere I want to go ATM. This idea I recently decided was a very neat thing that could be incorporated into the ASP. But, I don't know where to go after. I'll need UWP data at some point, preferably a system around a very hot sun (blue in color, I don't know the letter designation?).
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Post by malika on Jun 20, 2004 5:58:54 GMT -5
Tracked cities huh? whole cities on tracks? Im not sure if the Imperium could build that, perhaps som relics from the Dark Age Of Technology?
Maybe have large drilling walker machines, kinda like in Matrix Reloaded and Revolutions?
Or underground cities also?
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Post by CELS on Jun 20, 2004 6:02:15 GMT -5
Hey, Glyphstone! Glad to have you back! I've done some research, and here's what I've found. In the Archaios subsector, there are M-, F- and K-class stars. Now, the star types, from hottest to coldest are O, B, A, F, G, K, M. The only blue stars, to my knowledge, are the O and B class, which are 'giants'. A and F are white, G is a bright orange, and K and M are orange and red. Go here to check out what worlds are available in the Archaios subsector. Like I've said before, your idea is very interesting, but it doesn't really have to be a blue star, from what I know. Sure, the smallest stars give off less heat and radiation, but if the planet is close enough, the heat and radiation is still intolerable. Which is why you can find habitable systems in M-class systems (like Proteus) as well as G-class (like Sol). Anyway, I'm still very interested in your idea, so I suggest that you download the guide and start looking at the available worlds in the Archaios sub, and see how they turn out. You could also try the Heaven & Earth program submitted by Vatsy, which speeds up the process considerably, but gives you equally less freedom.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 20, 2004 12:43:58 GMT -5
Hmmn... interesting concept. Kind of reminds me of the 'walking mining city' from the Star Wars universe. In fact, you just said so... Gotta love the Dark Force books and Calrissian's latest grand scheme idea! Incidentally, if you're going to build such a world - which I feel is intriguing - then I would suggest that you take a look at a subsector other than Archaios. Indeed, I would say that it is best not to put it in that subsector... As a possible extensive mining world I would suggest the following: - Meksum subsector. It's a huge source of production for the Anargo sector, so putting something there would seem interesting.
- Anargo subsector. This does house the main ship-building facilites in the Anargo sector, and it will voraciously consume resources/minerals/etc. Indeed, since this would also be a useful source of shieldships it would be another good reason. (Although to be fair they could provide those ships regardless...)
And while it sounds like I'm trying to poach worlds from Archaios, that subsector already has enough concepts bandied around at the moment. I would strongly suggest that you put it in one of those two subsectors...
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 21, 2004 0:13:36 GMT -5
CELS: The star color doesn't really matter that much, it just needs to be VERY HOT. I guess I'll take a look at the planets available in Meksum. KAGE: Actually, I think I lifted it from Heir To the Empire, but yeah, it was Calrissian ;D. All right, it can be in another sector. I just subconsciously made the connection of "mining planet = Forgeworld subsector". Meksum is just fine, could you move this thread there?
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Post by CELS on Jun 21, 2004 0:45:10 GMT -5
All stars are very hot, Glyphstone It just depends on how close you get... I've moved it to the Meksum forum, reluctantly. I don't see why it can't be in the Archaios sub, since I already need another mining world, because of all those industrial worlds and the forgeworld. But hey, I don't mind speeding up some of the other subsectors
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 21, 2004 1:47:52 GMT -5
<grin> I believe that trilogy is referred to as the " Dark Force trilogy", including Heir to the Empire and the other two... Erm. I forget their names at the moment! Also, glad to see the system moved... CELS... Remember that you previously jumped on every potential world-builder and asked them to build a world in the 'forgeworld subsector', so play nice and let other people get dibs on worlds... Of course, we have yet to see whether zholud wants such a world in his subsector...
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 21, 2004 2:15:15 GMT -5
<grin> I believe that trilogy is referred to as the " Dark Force trilogy", including Heir to the Empire and the other two... Erm. I forget their names at the moment! :-[I didn't know it was a trilogy. :-[Cool! You guys can argue over where it should be placed, cause I don't really care. If CELS needs a mining world for Archaios, then I'll transfer back. But for now, I'm working as if it's Meksum. Any UWP's I can use, preferably a star type from B to F (I just can't escape the concept of bigger, hotter star = hotter planet. Also, bigger, hotter star + close orbit = REALLY hot planet.
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Post by zholud on Jun 21, 2004 3:30:45 GMT -5
I’m glad to see this world in my sub-sector. In the same time I have some problems with it – namely do you understand that the planet should turn around very slowly to have walking machines? If you want to have them always in the dark. I generally thought about rolling factory for Meksum with the similar idea, but when I found out that the speed should be about thousand km per hour, I dropped it.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 21, 2004 3:53:25 GMT -5
slow rotation is fine, since that might mean large planet, which in turn could mean more minerals to mine......
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Post by CELS on Jun 21, 2004 6:45:22 GMT -5
No need to argue, though I must admit I did not like the comment about me jumping on all the potential-world builders... Slow rotation should not be a problem. Some worlds are very close to being tidally locked, after all. Some have a rotational period of hundreds of days, some several years, and some even longer. If you use the guide, rotational period is something that you can easily modify within certain limits. I'm curious about how mining would work though, when you're almost constantly on the move. I mean, you can't dig very deep now, can you? Were you thinking something along the lines of the 'tiberium harvesters' from Command & Conquer? (Or spice harvesters from Dune?)
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Post by Destecado on Jun 21, 2004 8:01:41 GMT -5
One thing that I would suggest is that instead of staying one step ahead of the advancing sun, what if they kreep just behind the setting of the sun? There may be other benefits to trailing the sun as well. What kind of tempreature changes are we talking about for being in direct sunlight verses being in darkness? If hot enough, the planet may have lakes of lighter metals that have been melted by the heat of the sun. It would be a simple matter of extracting or syphoning off these deposits rather than having to dig for them. This could be handled by smaller land craft or flyers who return to the processing plants and factories in the moving city. You should also consider the weight of your city. You may want to make it up of many smaller sections, about the size of a city block each, that travell together with interconnected shafts and tunnles. This way if one section fails the others can flow around it and leave it behind, rather than placing the entire city structure in danger of being exposed to direct sunlight. Structures the size of a city block would be slightly larger than the crawler used to move the space shuttle to its launch platform. The crawler only averages about 2 kilometers per hour and that is on a paved and graded surface. The following sites have some good information and pictures of the crawler, so that you can get an idea of its size and what it takes to repair them. www.apollosaturn.com/crawler/crawl.htmwww.space.com/missionlaunches/fl_crawler_020826.htmlYou may also want to consider working some antigravity units into the structures. These of course will not be strong enough to lift the crawlers off the ground, but they will help to cancell out some of the weight. If these things are too heavy, they'll just sink into the ground. Another thing that needs to be considere is their height. How many levels do you expect each of these crawlers to have? You need to think about the height versus the width so that you do not come out with a top heavy crawler. Being top heavy might not be so bad on level land, but on any sort of steep incline it could cause the crawlers to topple over. Your also not really going to be able to stop to make repairs on these vehicles. Instead you will need to have a secondary set of treas which would allow them to pull up and service one set while not losing any forward momentum. If one is beyond repair and is forced to stop, they would have to strip off all the useful equipment rather quickly and transfer it to the other crawlers. For some reason this brings up an immage of a straggler from a heard of wild beasts left at the mercies of a stalking predator. In this case the stalking predator is the coming sunrise. Maybe there are some burned out remains of such unfortunates that still litter the suface. They could wind up half burried by blowing sands and surving as temporary shelters for nomads that wander the deserts. If we say that these structures are perhaps as much as 8 or 9 stories tall. the nomads could huddle in the depths of the structure...buried in the sand till the storm passes. Maybe their is also a high silicate content n the sand that reflects the sunlight or can become fused, making intersting glassy plans for these vehicles to traverse.
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 21, 2004 13:08:36 GMT -5
CELS: I hadn't really gone into too much detail thinking about the harvesters, I just had a very rough idea based on the Dark Forces book I read (need to re-read for inspiration). I like the idea of likening them to the spice harvesters in Dune, though it;s not a perfect comparison, since they're not harvesting sand. I guess they could be compared in the sense that the crawler-cities might be closer to rolling factories/processing plants that actual harvesters themselves, where the harvesting is done via drilling vehicles/hover-things/whatever. The problems of mining itself could be solved by saying that they're very close to the surface, though that I'm sure brings with it more problems. Or there's the possibility that the mines they harvest from are very deep, as the result of repeated excavations from many trips around the planet. I'm completely open here. One thing that I would suggest is that instead of staying one step ahead of the advancing sun, what if they creep just behind the setting of the sun? There may be other benefits to trailing the sun as well. That's perfectly acceptable, and actually a much better solution. The residents would likely want some sort of evacuation plan in case of a critical breakdown, and being on the sunsetward side gives them that much more time to get away. Hmmm, interesting. Lighter metals are a very acceptable concept, since I wanted this to be a very rich planet with a variety of valuable mining potential. Or am I getting too big for my pants? I REALLY like this idea. It makes the city more interesting, (possible rivalries between city "blocks"/factory corporations/gangs, anyone?), and helps separate this from being a total rip-off of the Star Wars book. Also, it even helps avoid the problem which destroyed the crawler-city in the book, where the Imperials sabotaged the tread system to cripple it. Since they're entire cities, I suppose antigrav of some sort will be very neccessary. I never would have thought of that. I just pictured them as BIG. Perhaps a couple hundred feet tall? They can't be too tall, because it's too much to hope that the planet has no mountain ranges, so they will be required to climb slopes at some point. And for width, the various "blocks" could take support from one another. Excellent..........(cue Mr. Burns voice).......another nice idea. Two sets of treads could be a very good idea. Interesting imagery. Nomads are possible, but the problem remains of being fried by the sun's light and heat during the "day". Or maybe they burrow? This will definitely need to be incorporated in some manner, to add flavor to the planet. Not everyone might live on the city, perhaps exiled citizens, or banished workers sentenced to death by "marooning" who survive? No Chaos cults though. Since this planet would not be likely to have water of any sort, this could work out. Giant seas of glass or crystals? Giant burrowing sand-snakes? (no I'm not thinking Dune ATM) Destacado, you truly are a godsend when it comes to real-world information. I salute you.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 22, 2004 1:39:53 GMT -5
I guess they could be compared in the sense that the crawler-cities might be closer to rolling factories/processing plants that actual harvesters themselves, where the harvesting is done via drilling vehicles/hover-things/whatever. Incidentally, perhaps an alternative to 'walking' cities might be found since that's obviously a tad too close to the world that engendered the concept. A tracked city? Hmmn... I'm sure that's already been suggested, but there we go. The problems of mining itself could be solved by saying that they're very close to the surface, though that I'm sure brings with it more problems. What about the whole Venus gig? There you've got a crust which is, I believe, 'regenerating' by basically continually flipping and sinking. It makes recovery a bit of a problem unless the process has stopped...? Or there's the possibility that the mines they harvest from are very deep, as the result of repeated excavations from many trips around the planet. I'm completely open here. If you've got deep mines and a stable surface, then would that not potentially invalidate the use of the 'moving cities'? ...since I wanted this to be a very rich planet with a variety of valuable mining potential. Or am I getting too big for my pants? You're going to be looking for a high resource value, then. A+ at the very least in conjunction with to O (rare) G or K star, with the orbit increasingly approaching the star as you go from O to G/K... If the world - or system in general - is such a fantastic reserve of minerals, the number of hiveworlds supposedly located in this subsector are the perfect maw into which they would be swallowed... Thus it becomes a subsector concept rather than an individual concept... erm, if that rather twisted point can be seen. Since they're entire cities, I suppose antigrav of some sort will be very neccessary. I never would have thought of that. Only problem here - and it's not that big a problem - is that we run into the territory of determining just how common AG or CG (contra-grav; minor difference, but I prefer this, i.e. a field which negates weight rather than generate thrust) is in the Imperium... This, of course, would in no way restrict it's application on the planet, just that it would be a horrendously expensive addition. (In my terms, I currently 'restrict' CG systems to the adeptus mechanicus at GTL10. They can be imported, and maintained by TechPriests, with no problem but it is an Achilles Heel in terms of self-sufficiency.) Not everyone might live on the city, perhaps exiled citizens, or banished workers sentenced to death by "marooning" who survive? No Chaos cults though. Deep mines again, I would imagine. Giant seas of glass or crystals? I don't see why not... Giant burrowing sand-snakes? (no I'm not thinking Dune ATM) No so keen on the alien flora and fauna for this world...
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Jun 22, 2004 1:48:38 GMT -5
Incidentally, perhaps an alternative to 'walking' cities might be found since that's obviously a tad too close to the world that engendered the concept. A tracked city? Hmmn... I'm sure that's already been suggested, but there we go. Actually, tracked cities were what I had envisioned from the start. Were the ones in the book on legs? Not sure what you're trying to say here, is this a problem or solution to mining? D'oh, forgot about that. Okay, no deep mines. Definitely high resource value. If Zohlud could find me an O-class UWP with high resources, it'd be perfect. A G/K class would be okay. Not sure what you're trying to say here. I think it'd be even better if there were many hiveworlds in the vicinity, because that would justify the Imperium building/maintaining this/these huge crawler-cities to collect the resources. Like I said above, it could be justified because of the value of the minerals. I suppose, this is only a vague idea at the moment. Perfect. Yeah, I guess having any alien creature larger than a microbe would be unlikely.
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