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Post by zholud on Jul 11, 2004 8:10:12 GMT -5
zholud... I'm failing to see the point. We're going to have information that conforms to that. Your suggestion that we have worlds 1 light year apart is already integrated. Your suggestion that we have lots of worlds 1 light year apart doesn't bear up to a consideration even of our local space. So, just to clarify – now we do have neighbouring systems about 1 l.y. apart or even slightly less. Right? If so – where? Have you jumped on my proposal on exact determination of coordinates? What about movement? Long, long routes of stars and clasters. You know, the post above by CELS argued that I came too late with proposal on number of worlds per sector. So, I pointed out that it was my earliest post on the ASP. Back in August 2003. And nothing in this world makes as difference and everything does at the same time… P.S. Back on topic, please. If you agree to discuss coordinates I’ll start up new thread in General… anyway, you remain the boss and you can veto any decision. BTW, look up Darien world – I’ll post comments on Monday (July 12) I hope.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 11, 2004 21:49:02 GMT -5
So, just to clarify – now we do have neighbouring systems about 1 l.y. apart or even slightly less. Right? If so – where? Have you jumped on my proposal on exact determination of coordinates? What about movement? Long, long routes of stars and clasters. No, we don't have 'neighbouring systems' about 1 ly apart, though randomisation of the position of the star within the ~parsec will remove any overt 'grided' appearance. As to neighbouring systems, about the only thing that I can think you're talking about is the idea of binary or trinary systems, which are generated in the Guide. This would introduce a bit of what you're after, and work with what we have rather than requiring significant revision. Furthermore, I suggest you look on that link I posted which shows the stars within 10 light years and within 20 light years of Sol/Earth. You'll note that they are not 1 light year apart. I must therefore disagree with what you're saying and say simply, no we're not going to have neighbouring systems at less than one light year based upon the astronomical star catalogues available and determining the average distances between stars in close proximity to Terra.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 22, 2004 3:00:44 GMT -5
Like CELS said before he then went and started another of topic debate, and as zholud suggested but was ignored by kage, What about Meksum is it done, i need closure here zholud as I would like to perhaps include Meksum in the write ups of my worlds some how. Oh and on you idea of building cities down to the core i would suggest it would be easier to build the hive on the star as its probably far cooler and the pressure would be substantially lower. If they could do that they could also colonise gas giants as we are talking the same kinds of pressure And are you still interested in the idea of Meksum perhaps challinging anargo for dominance of the sector, because the 3, yes 3 worlds i am working on, not including proculus and seleca could be the solution to that...maybe...if I ever find out about meksum of course And before you say any thing i want those 2 worlds out of the way first before i start bothering you with new concepts
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Post by zholud on Aug 24, 2004 21:42:48 GMT -5
Eh, I’m back from a small hiatus after the Ukrainian independence day, which I as every patriot celebrated with some amount of booze and was unable to write and comment here afterwards… What about Meksum is it done, i need closure here zholud as I would like to perhaps include Meksum in the write ups of my worlds some how. I plan to get directly on Meksum SR right after I finish Neu Povolzh, which I use as my 1st attempt to do a good fluff and where I may fail and still don’t affect ASP greatly. You may ask me exact questions meantime I’ll try to answer. Oh and on you idea of building cities down to the core i would suggest it would be easier to build the hive on the star as its probably far cooler and the pressure would be substantially lower I build hives not too close to core, but in thin shell between magma and hydrosphere. That’s why my hives are unusually flat, just about 10-100 floors high, but spreading from pole to pole. Building on the star is insane because of - Absence of solid ‘ground… stars are closer to hot gas giants than to planets.
- Temperature over 3000 degrees Celsius is not a pleasant thing
- Radiation is so intensive that you’re frayed with x-rays alone
- Gravity is quite significant.
And are you still interested in the idea of Meksum perhaps challinging anargo for dominance of the sector Not only me but even Kage is interested in this. So it should be so And before you say any thing i want those 2 worlds out of the way first before i start bothering you with new concepts I’ll look up them shortly.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 24, 2004 23:15:51 GMT -5
*closes eyes, rests forhead in hand**sigh* I was not advocating building cities on a star, not the imperium at any rate, mearly stating the difficulties of building structures that deep. Why not simply build on the ocean floor, or even extend the hive beyond the shore like an enormouse oil rig, I assure you it would be easier than building were you are proposing. Granted if you seas are shallow then they wouldn't have a problem building beneath them, but that then begs the question why if they are shallow build under them, when you could simply build over them Whats the population of Meksum by the way Well if I ask questions then i'm gonna be bothering you with new world concepts, but ok, how do you feel about proto hives, I know you dont want another hive world so maybe this might work.
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Post by zholud on Aug 25, 2004 0:55:11 GMT -5
*closes eyes, rests forhead in hand**sigh* I was not advocating building cities on a star, not the imperium at any rate, mearly stating the difficulties of building structures that deep. They aren’t deep, there are just on the floor, or just slightly below. Some were on the floor, but after 10,000 the changes due to currents, heavy wastes, etc buried them below actual ocean floor. They aren’t too deep. Granted if you seas are shallow then they wouldn't have a problem building beneath them, but that then begs the question why if they are shallow build under them, when you could simply build over them No – close star means enormous radiation, ocean is shelter in the same way as Earth ozone layer and atmosphere. Whats the population of Meksum by the way between 80 and 180 bn, I guess about 120bn. Well if I ask questions then i'm gonna be bothering you with new world concepts, but ok, how do you feel about proto hives, I know you dont want another hive world so maybe this might work. I envision some proto-hives within the sub, with 10-40bn population.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 25, 2004 1:14:52 GMT -5
Ah well their you go, that explains that, but isn't most of the water on meksum covered by ice.
Mmm your star is a main sequence red dwarf, these things are puny would the radiation levels truely be that high, remember much of the nuclear activity in these stars has stopped, perhaps if it was a red giant or a K class star
My ignorance is showing, quick google shows they are just weak cold small stars not almost dead stars as I had thought them
I got a pop of 80 billion from the UWP though i could spread that through out the system if its to high.
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Post by zholud on Aug 25, 2004 2:56:31 GMT -5
Ah well their you go, that explains that, but isn't most of the water on meksum covered by ice. About 2/3rds are covered. Creating something under ice is even cheaper if you get enough energy and materials. Cities are mainly on equator (water zone) but under ice as well. Mmm your star is a main sequence red dwarf, these things are puny would the radiation levels truely be that high, remember much of the nuclear activity in these stars has stopped, It is below K-star radiation but still dangerous. At least we can think so, because within next century at least no one will get close enough to red dwarf to check it. remember, astronomy just hypothesise that there is something beyond the solar system at all, no ‘touchable’ proof is present… I got a pop of 80 billion from the UWP though i could spread that through out the system if its to high. I’d better see 40bn as upper margin for proto-world and I want to see your world with below 20bn… after all I don’t need adequate competitors to Meksum… Ask Kage when he’ll be back
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Post by Dazo on Aug 25, 2004 4:20:12 GMT -5
Indeed, well we will have to come up with a reason why Meksum is more prominant than Anexus which has a superior resource value, and is the home world of the UTC, perhaps deals were struck, warp capable ships provided, Anexus prefered to remain in the shadow of Meksum maybe, so long as the governor of the sub sector gave them exclusive mining rights to certain worlds. They would in turn be happy to see the fortunes of Meksum rise from these rich worlds. And by that I mean the governor's personal fortunes aswell. And UWP says 40 billion which was your first offer, as you well know I hate having to needlesly alter the UWP of a orld its just not right How thick is the ice, because they could build into it as well as beneath it. You ask him, i dont want him havin ago at me Any way Zholud or should I call you Phantom your not exactly around that often either ;D
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Post by zholud on Aug 25, 2004 22:46:06 GMT -5
ReligionAs any Hiveworld, Meksum has the whole spectre of schisms and religious practices that are more or less tolerated by Ecclesiarchy as well as ones that are declared heresies. Once the seed of religion falls on fertile ground composed of billions of persons it cannot be easily rooted out. The mainstream Meksumians belong to two main versions of the creed. The most widely used is more or less general creed that everyone except the God-Emperor is sinful but His Divine Majesty understands fallacies of human nature and forgets it for piety and good gifts to Ecclesiarchy. Thus Meksumians are very religious in appearance, usually having unusually large Emperor’s or Aquilla symbols on their necks, often opulently decorated with gems and similar. Same can be seen in their homes, where walls are decorated with Ecclesiarchal symbols and shrine is present. At the same time they quite often sin, including alcohol/drugs over-usage, theft, murder, rape, etc and then go to local church with gifts to get indulgence for their deed. They are often enraged if anyone dares to point on their behaviour that is far from piety, and they consider themselves ‘holier than ecclesiarch’, as one historian put it. Weekly appearance in church looks often more like fashion show, where everyone tries to get better and more decorated aquilla than neighbour… The second mayor schism, which is much less popular is Zenith philosophy that calls for aspiring toward Emperor in terms of spiritual unity. The practices of it use meditation, often drug-induced and try to become psychic being similar to Him on Terra. It is possible that this is some kind of Tzeench psyker teaching cult or derivative of Sensei-Illuminati system. Cultists do not actively interfere with outside world and have very strict moral principles that led to almost complete absence of crime it their communities. At the same time they think that outsiders are inferior infidels and can be maimed for the good of Emperor.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 26, 2004 3:25:12 GMT -5
You ask him, i dont want him havin ago at me The only thing that I'm likely to have a go at with people is snide comments and suggestions that I'm away. The project is growing sufficiently that it is difficult to keep track of things between the various forums. That is what the PPLs are for. If there is a question that needs a definitive answer they ask me and, if there is some debate, we open it up to the other PPLs. It's one of those hierarchy things... at least that is how it is supposed to work. So, do not confuse my not posting to every single thread as I used to a signal that I am not here. Granted I am not here all the time, but there's that lovely little thing called a thesis to write up (a feature that I'm constantly harping on about, so don't get me started! ). I presume that you're talking about the population? I would say minimise it as much as feasible... While this puts it into the dubious territory that is neither 'forgeworld', 'civilised world' or 'hiveworld' still it makes it more reasonable. And as zholud said, he would prefer that you didn't set up too big a competitor. (Based on a quick skim.) So, if you would, tongue-in-cheek aside, it would be nice if the several comments about 'not being around' or 'having a go' go where they belong... the trash.
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Post by Dazo on Aug 28, 2004 4:51:31 GMT -5
You will have to clarify that one way or the other.
Doesn't sound very tzeentchian
Where as that does, but is very contradictory to first part of the statement. Wouldn't that sort of thing tend to alert the authorities to them.
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Post by CELS on Aug 29, 2004 7:56:01 GMT -5
Well, the worlds of the Imperium article is dubious anyway, stating that anything with a 10- bn population is a civilised world, and anything with a 100+ bn population is a hiveworld, and then not explaining what's within the 10-99 bn range.
Defining a hiveworld requires common sense, unfortunately. A hiveworld requires the presence of hives on great areas of the planet. A world with a single hive (or like Anargo, a small number of hives) is not a hive world. Likewise, a huuuuge planet with 100 bn citizens spread equally across the surface (without hives or even very large cities) is not a hiveworld. A hiveworld can easily be a tiny world the size of Mercury with a population of only 9 bn or something. It depends on whether or not it has a lot of 'hives'.
At least, that's my take on it. It does create a few problems though, because it makes the categorising of planets that much more difficult. On the other hand, a world the size of mercury is unlikely to be a hiveworld, because A) it will have a lot less minerals than a larger world, and B) it will have a lot less gravity, which makes industry more difficult, and reduces the output. Right?
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Post by Philip on Aug 29, 2004 8:25:09 GMT -5
Hive worlds are named such because they have Hives on them.
If it has one single hive it is a hive world.
If the population is not housed in hives it is not a hive world.
The problem is, what counts as a hive?
Obviously its a very densely packed city, but would that mean Tokyo is a hive?
Bit of tricky one hence my work on hives...
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Post by Dazo on Sept 8, 2004 4:08:45 GMT -5
Well Anexus would have cities remanisant of the 5th Element but not quite hive like. And 20 billion is the max population you want to see is it
Is Meksum the banking capitol of the sub sector, I know economic centers tend to be big and important so that would explain why it is the sub capitol and not anexus
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