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Post by Kage2020 on May 10, 2004 17:21:03 GMT -5
Hmmn... it always stumps me when there is agreement! So we've thus far got an artefact of the Old Ones has created our 'stones in the current' (the one that bisects the sector) but which instead of being a result of a 'matterium' phenomenon rather relates to the impingement of another reality into the warp. In my terms this means that it would be a 'bulging' of the upper manifold (cf. Horizon) through the 'Torison space' creating a flow alteration. The question here is what the mistake was? What were the trying to do and does it relate to a stage of war against the Necrons/C'tan...? Kage
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Post by Destecado on May 10, 2004 17:37:07 GMT -5
nstead of being seven mistakes, perhaps it was one mistake that spawned the seven seperate reality fragments. Using the bubble analogy, sometimes when you blow a bubble instead of getting one large bubble you end up with a multitude of little ones.
This can occur from blowing to hard when blowing the bubble or even blowing irregularly. In the creation of the pocket reality, this could have been caused by fluctuations in the power input or too great a surge of power.
An alternative thought is that maybe the reality fractured into the smaller fragments after they built it. It was inherently unstable, but by studying what caused it to fall apart they were able to correct the problem on their second try. If I remember correctly, the Fantasy universe is thought to exist as a world somewhere inside of ours.
Their first attempt put it outside our reality which eventually made it destabilize. By instead forming it within our reality and then using the laws of our reality as a buttress, they were able to keep it from destabilizing. Again this brings up the nature of the Fantasy Universe and where it may exist.....maybe it is sitting at the bottom of a black hole...(no one would look there).
The Fantasy Realm must have originally been created as a refuge. From some of the fluff, it sounds like the Old Ones may have been close to losing the war in heaven. By making a refuge, they could hide from the C'tan and Necrons why they marshalled their forces. The advent of the enslavers would probably have come unexpectedly giving them even more reason to complete their project or giving them the breathing room they needed to make the transition to the Fantasy Warhammer reality.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 10, 2004 19:33:33 GMT -5
Would you stop with the damned bubble analogy, already! We are, of course, not going to make a decision and situate the Warhammer world in the Anargo sector. Not by a long-shot... Perhaps the goal was to entomb the, erm, Tomb World in a separate fragmentary proto-dimension? Or even half-land? The only problem is that it didn't quite work... Kage
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Post by KeirLeslie on May 11, 2004 3:35:01 GMT -5
I like the idea of the Old Ones creating Sub-realities. Presumably this would however require a lot of energy. So where did they get it from? The Warp would be the obvious answer. I guess it could have been done by a variety of ways, maybe this would've disturbed the Warp more leading to the Sargassos Gulf as well. As for getting it right on their second try I'd imagine it would need several attempts to perfect the technique so, seven different sub-realities. These would be phyicists dreams. A whole different reality, different Laws etc.
Wouldn't it be very likely that if ever the Adeptus Mechanicus should discover these they would be flooded by Explorator vessels from across the Imperium?
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Post by Kage2020 on May 11, 2004 6:31:32 GMT -5
First off, I'm glad to see that someone else has dropped into what is quite an important thread in the ASP at the moment. (As Destecado points out elsewhere, a lot of concepts ultimately come back to this thread...) I like the idea of the Old Ones creating Sub-realities. Presumably this would however require a lot of energy. So where did they get it from? The Warp would be the obvious answer. [/b][/quote] Of course. Psychic engineering. The eldar get their energy from the warp, so it would seem reasonable that the Old Ones did as well... Of course, there is also the intriguing concept that a part of the reason that things started going wrong was the increasing 'chaotic' fraction of the warp which intereferred with their abilities, based inherently upon a manipulation of the 'harmonious' warp. But this is a topic for the "Nature of the Warp" thread. I guess it could have been done by a variety of ways, maybe this would've disturbed the Warp more leading to the Sargassos Gulf as well. That was definitely the goal, hence the stream and 'stones in the stream' analogies. Just as the 'rocks' can create white water, so they can also create static and calm pools. Thus the 'Heart of Anargo' in part creates the Sargassos Gulf. As for getting it right on their second try I'd imagine it would need several attempts to perfect the technique so, seven different sub-realities. Or compounding their error on the second go? Try it once get one proto-dimensional reality which doesn't suit your purposes. Try it again and you fracture that reality, as suggested by Destecado above. These would be phyicists dreams. A whole different reality, different Laws etc. The concept of "pocket dimensions" and all their implications introduced in part into the 40k universe... another reason that I was fascinated by Destecado's concept. That and it would be consistent with my own interpretation of the warp (and the Umbral imagery is a common point of that, even though it creates specific variations!) Wouldn't it be very likely that if ever the Adeptus Mechanicus should discover these they would be flooded by Explorator vessels from across the Imperium? Remember that there is a Rogue Trader fleet heading their way to the Anargo sector at the request of Lord Anargo. Seems that they would prefer some trans-sector travel and the Heart of Anargo is becoming a problematic feature at best... Hmmn, that reminds me. It needs to be discussed in Archaios as well. Keep it coming... The more the merrier, and the more that the project reacts to the comments of all the members rather than the specific direction of a few. Erm... Kage
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Post by Destecado on May 11, 2004 13:52:45 GMT -5
Would you stop with the damned bubble analogy, already! Ok, I'll switch to balloons. ;D I agree that the Warhammer Fantasy "Universe" should not be in the Anargo Sector. The Anargo Sector was probably chosen, because it was well out of the way of anything important to the Old Ones..A perfect place to carry on their research in secret. The final "universe" would be placed else where. This is possibly why they left the fragments behind, to draw the attention of the Necrons, while they slipped away and made their refuge elsewhere. Maybe this explains the Necron presence at the heart of the sector. They arrived after the Old Ones had already departed, but perhaps became aware of the micro realities beyond our own (by torturing an old one or maybe a younger race that had helped them). They were waiting for the Old Ones to emerge. Of course they did not, but the Necrons left a sufficinet for behind to wait for them in case they did. When the Necrons went into stasis, this group went into stasis here n the Anargo Sector. I'm not sure how substantial we want the Necron presence to be. Are we talking a small garrison, or a large battle group?
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Post by Kage2020 on May 11, 2004 17:11:44 GMT -5
The orignal premise was to have a Tomb World at the centre of the Anargo Sector... How about this as a general concept, then? The Old Ones are trying to create a pocket dimension (fragmentary proto-dimension) with which they could escape and, perhaps, take favoured servants with them. (Images of Grandfather from the Traveller universe here... or the Primordials for that matter.) The whole Thirdspace imagery as the Old Ones return would be absolutely fantastic if done correctly... Hmmn, that's a topic for the 'story' of Anargo in PPL if ever there was one. (And I know for a fact that numerous people will hate it! ) They 'conjure' forth one fragmentary proto-dimension but it's not quite to their liking, so they do "something". This fragments the proto-dimension further into halflands (weird physics laws, etc.) creating the 'stones' but also acting - somehow - to trap the Necrons within the Heart... The Necrons enter stasis and that's that... Any fluctation to the 'stones' is going to threaten the awakening of the Necrons... Eldar presence may be based in part by fragmentary records of myths regarding the sector... but beyond that? Who knows? Kage
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Post by CELS on May 11, 2004 17:18:59 GMT -5
This is probably going to sound very selfish and... other negative adjectives that I can't think of at the moment... but I'm just going to say this anyway. Because of my exams, I find that I'm unable to contribute in important questions of the ASP such as the Heart of the Anargo sector, the nature of the Sargassos phenomenon, etc as much as I want to. I've only just skimmed over the last few posts here, if that, but I must say that it all sounds very scary, with new realities and whatnot. I don't suppose it would be possible for you guys to focus on other parts of the project untill things calm down and all us college / high school boys have time to contribute..? (That'll be at least myself, Minister and Sojourner, IIRC) It's not like everything in the project depends on this thread either. For example, we still have a lot of world-building that needs doing, and that can be done without fully exploring the heart of the Sector. Anyway, this is just a long shot, and I'm fully aware that it's somewhat selfish, but I'm just afraid that I'll finally have time to read through this in a week and go "WTF!? " It might even be in everyone's interest, seen from a certain point of view....
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Post by Destecado on May 11, 2004 17:26:24 GMT -5
A small break to allow others to read through and digest what we have written does not sound bad. It may also help us to gain a new prespective ourselves. CELS is correct that there are areas that can be worked on that do not touch on these concepts...although I do find a certain satisfaction in discussing the meta aspects of the project.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 11, 2004 17:38:42 GMT -5
The Meta concepts are the things that get me all twitchy with excitement, which is why I love the eldar... they touch on all of them in some way or another. But a reasonable request, CELS. Unfortunately you do know that I'm going to be stuck in my ways in a few days time as I think more on the potentials of what is already a fantastically interesting idea! Kage
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Post by CELS on May 11, 2004 17:49:54 GMT -5
Well, that was more understanding than I had hoped for! Cheers ;D And just as a friendly reminder (which I'm not sure is even in its place, since I haven't really had a good read through all this)... we will of course try to make this Sector somewhat "average", so I hope you don't intend on letting this idea, whatever it is, affect the rest of the sector enormously. (But yeah, I do know we have a great big mystery in the middle of our sector) Anyway, that's all I'll post in this thread for a while Yes, and I foresee a very heated discussion as the result of this. It's almost become an ASP tradition ;D
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Post by Kage2020 on May 11, 2004 17:53:13 GMT -5
Did I ever mention that the ASP was meant to be an 'average sector' only in setting? Hell, I'm a roleplayer. We love the average becoming the exceptional as part of an integrated and cohesive narrative! Kage
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Post by Sikkukkut on May 13, 2004 8:47:37 GMT -5
In deference to CELS I won't say too much just yet, but is anyone/everyone else familiar with the "tetrascapes" that the Saruthi built for themselves in Xenos?
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Post by CELS on May 13, 2004 11:27:25 GMT -5
*types slowly, since his right hand is crippled by first exam* I'm familiar with that. What did you have in mind, exactly?
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Post by Kage2020 on May 14, 2004 12:01:14 GMT -5
The tetrascapes would be partial examples of fragmentary ( et al.) proto-dimensions, but rather nicely getting out of the dubious "it's chaos, Captain, but not as we know it" imagery... Although expanding upon the tetrascape idea without the overt "ooh, it's cool but..." ideas would be interesting, so I'm all ears... Kage
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