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Post by CELS on Feb 10, 2004 16:09:03 GMT -5
Looking at the map of the Gothic sector, you'll see what I believe are heavily trafficked warp routes, from Portmaw to neighbouring sectors. Whether these are easier to travel through because of warp currents or navigator beacons, I don't know. I guess this is up for us to discuss, as well as whether or not we should have similar routes in the Anargo sector, and if so, where?
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Post by Minister on Feb 11, 2004 4:30:25 GMT -5
I see these as a combination of a number of things: Routes which are the most direct line between trading hubs with way-stations along the way for non-Navigated ships. Routes which are regularly patrolled by the Imperial Navy to keep them secure. Routes where the warp is known to be calmer and/or "faster" (more conductive to speedy travel).
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Post by zholud on Feb 11, 2004 14:34:10 GMT -5
Whether these are easier to travel through because of warp currents or navigator beacons, I don't know. I guess you mixed two different things together. For me, the travel is faster in current than outside it for sure, but the navigator beacon (I guess this is Astronomican) is more akin to lighthouse than drive, so the safest and fastest way is by the current on which you constantly may ‘see’ Astronomican and thus make the longest jumps.
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Post by CELS on Feb 11, 2004 17:05:08 GMT -5
So really, Minister, these are routes "where the warp is known to be calmer", and that have "way-stations along the way for non-navigated ships", leading to increased traffic, which leads to them being "regularly patrolled by the Imperial Navy to keep them secure".... I assume you don't mean direct line in terms of physical distance though...
And Zholud, I don't think I'm mixing anything together. I'm not sure about the Navigator beacons though, because I seem to remember that there are more beacons than the one on earth, but I can't be too sure.
Btw, on the map of the Gothic sector, all of the routes lead to the sector capitol. Do you think that this is A) Coincidence B) Because they made the world capitol that had most warp route "connections" C) Because these "warp routes" are made by the Imperium.
If C, do you believe that C1) The warp routes give extra fast warp travel because of beacons or something similar? C2) The warp routes aren't particularly fast, but have supply stations and patrolling Navy ships to protect non-Navigated ships?
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 11, 2004 18:59:15 GMT -5
Stable warp pathways are definitely going to be making an appearance, as one might remember from initial discussions regarding the project. With regards to 'waystations for non-navigated' jumps, one could argue that these are not necessary. All the ship does is jump into empty space, re-charge the warp engines and then rejump... Perhaps? Kage
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Post by Minister on Feb 12, 2004 8:39:19 GMT -5
Most likley. Buf, for the longer routes covering the inter sub-sector routes it may be prudent to have somwhere to stop off and repair/re-supply on the way.
And yes, I do mean the most direct route in the warp, which is not the same as the most direct realspace route.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 12, 2004 9:10:27 GMT -5
We'd have to see just how long these distances are and how long that might take with Imperial technology... The nature of any 'resupply' is entirely dependent upon the nature of motive power, the nature of life support and so on. It is entirely possible that a ship jumps into the warp, travels for a while and then jumps out of the warp. They then simply recharge the warp engines and dive back in when a suitable 'current' presents itself which, for a stable warp pathway, isn't that much of a problem... Again, one problem that I have is with the representation - and not just the accepting - of the drive systems of the Imperium. The characteristics that are presented are unfeasible unless constant acceleration is possible, in which case there is no way that the ships could carry enough fuel as reaction mass. Hence it would seem that reactionless thrusters - completely weird drive systems that violate the conservation of momentum - would be the best way of modelling Imperial drives, if requiring an alternative description of function. (Well, other than it "throws plasma at da back 'cos the 'fluff' says so...") With regards to the 'warp routes' themselves, the centre of the sector should be thought of as the 'ocean', something which at a certain point in history was feared to be crossed for fear of getting lost... Perhaps the majority of movement is 'coast hugging' along the sides of the sector? There's a lot of potential for RPG in that case, as well as making the actions of the soon-to-arrive Rogue Trader that much more significant. And, yes, it seems obvious that the most direct warp route need not be the most direct realspace route. Kage
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Post by zholud on Feb 12, 2004 15:39:00 GMT -5
And Zholud, I don't think I'm mixing anything together. I'm not sure about the Navigator beacons though, because I seem to remember that there are more beacons than the one on earth, but I can't be too sure. You are correct, there are other beacons as well as Astropath amplifiers bases. I only point that for me Astronomican cannot be thrust power for the ship Btw, on the map of the Gothic sector, all of the routes lead to the sector capitol. Do you think that this is B) Because they made the world capitol that had most warp route "connections" C) Because these "warp routes" are made by the Imperium. I guess the mix of two that left. There are more warp-currents than used by Imperium within the sector, but the capital arises usually on the cross-roads or in 40k case warp-currents. If C, do you believe that C1) The warp routes give extra fast warp travel because of beacons or something similar? For me, they are faster because they are currents and as the oceanic currents which allow faster travel. Warp is weird mix of marine and aerial currents in 3D or higher. The warp drive isn’t a drive at all, but generator which allows creation of sail (geller field) but still the ‘wind’ = warp current is necessity. C2) The warp routes aren't particularly fast, but have supply stations and patrolling Navy ships to protect non-Navigated ships? They are fast at “Fast” currents… but most of currents used aren’t the best, they just lead to planets we need.
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Post by CELS on Feb 13, 2004 18:37:43 GMT -5
Well, it seems we pretty much agree on the nature of warp routes. So where will we put them? Obviously, the Anargo system will be the center, with routes going to neighbouring sectors (all six of them?)
Any other routes? This would have great significance on both the wargame and the RPG aspect of the project, I imagine, depending on the nature of the routes. There could be a route often used for smuggling, for example, or a route leading to a system in the Meksum or Dorvastor subsector from the ork empire, and thus a potential weakpoint... Maybe one of the main 'arteries' of warp routes from the Segmentum Solar could pass through Anargo, making inter-sector traffic very common in the sector..? Thoughts?
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Post by zholud on Feb 14, 2004 2:46:20 GMT -5
Note that we have two potent currents, one is Pandemonian (sp?) Tide in Castellan and other is in Meksum (which led to its appearance).
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 14, 2004 15:05:02 GMT -5
Stable warp pathways would most likely be present... hell to it, wherever we want them to be. One could argue that stable trade existing between worlds would form those currents. After all, this is the essence of the argument for the existence of the Pendulum Tide itself... Anargo will obviously have a number of Warp pathways moving through it, but then so to will Meksum given the 'new' importance of the subsector and the huge population. Remember also that the subsectors 'hug' the outside of the sector and there is the idea of the 'quirky' centre of the sector. Again I offer the analogy of 'crossing the ocean'... Kage
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Post by CELS on Feb 17, 2004 18:30:33 GMT -5
Perhaps it would be best to assume that Puffin Magician, McHaggis, and whomever else we thought would be helping with the map, are out. Maybe we should look for someone else to do it instead, so we can start thinking about stuff like this. Warp routes will be pretty important to the structure of the sector, I imagine.
With that said, I would like to propose that we do something more interesting than just setting warp routes wherever they seem to be needed. It's not a perfect galaxy, and the sector would be slightly more interesting if we added a detail such as there being no warp route between Anargo and... I dunno... Dorvastor? If one had to travel through Meksum to get to Dorvastor, if one wanted to stick to the warp routes?
Something to that effect anyway..
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Post by zholud on Feb 18, 2004 15:24:47 GMT -5
Perhaps we could give two main tides which are already established in our fluff and they go with dice (artillery dice? ) to determine several others… Then to think what possibilities and ideas it will bring. If the result is adequate to our needs then continue rolling. Note, that if warp is not direct mirror of real universe, then the actual materium map isn’t needed at all – the warp ways are entirely different and two systems far away are really neighbours in the warp sense…
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Post by CELS on Feb 19, 2004 7:49:08 GMT -5
Randomly deciding might be interesting.... I have no idea how it could be done though. Maybe take each important area of space in the sector, and roll to see if it's connected to each of the other important areas? Maybe there would be a warp route on a 5+ of a D6?
I don't know. Arbitrarily placing the warp routes does have its own advantage, in that we can choose alternatives that offer interesting consequenses.
And no, the warp is not a direct mirror of the material universe, but it is my opinion that we should follow GW's footsteps on this one. If you take a look at typical subsector maps, which look kinda like star constellations, you'll see that there's not connection between all systems. Also, if you look at the map of the Gothic sector in the BFG rulebook or the map of Lord Solar Macharius' crusade-route in Codex: IG (3rd edition, first version) you'll see that warp routes are closely related to the physical universe.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 19, 2004 9:07:48 GMT -5
Random determination of 'stable warp pathway' is not the right way to go, for me. That lies the route of ephemeral routes that may exist at any given time... What we're wanting is those that have lasted for millennia and which have been charted and are relied upon as a substantial trade route. As such, merely mapping routes of trade would be a method by which route presence should be determined. Kage
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