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Massil
Mar 30, 2004 8:15:07 GMT -5
Post by Tynesh on Mar 30, 2004 8:15:07 GMT -5
Ok just starting up a thread for my Star System, Massil.
The planet is the central rallying point for the defence of ork invasions from the Cruciatine Sector. Many of the worlds in the sub have come under attack from the greenskins in the past be it small raids or a full blown invasion like Waaagh! Tuskragga that smashed through the sub in M36. Many of these worlds are not large enough to withstand another full scale invasion so Massil acts as a staging post for Guard Regiments garrisoned in the sub-sector and as a point where Battlefleet Anargo can refuel and repair during patrols of the frontier.
Although no longer the sub sector capital Massil is still a crucial world in the defence of the entire Anargo sector. Including the first invasion the defenders of Massil have defeated four attacks on the planet by Ork warlords egar to crush the planet. Each time the united and resolute attitude of the defenders has overcome the brutal warfare of the ork warbands.
Enjoy!
Std Rep to follow within the day!
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Massil
Mar 30, 2004 9:55:58 GMT -5
Post by Sikkukkut on Mar 30, 2004 9:55:58 GMT -5
Hi Tynesh! Thanks for doing some spadework on Massil. I'm looking forward to seeing the planetary stats, but I just wanted to clarify some things you wanted to include about the world's role in Castellan. (Advance note: yes, I know I'm about to make some points that I don't think I've made before and that you couldn't have been expected to know about. This isn't a slapdown or anything, and I hope you don't take it as such, I'm just giving some clarification.) I'd like us to steer clear of any one world becoming the "most vital world" or "the lynchpin of Castellan's defences"; even "crucial staging point" is pushing it a little. These tend to assume Castellan is a collection of allied but essentially unconnected worlds, which go about their own business most of the time and tend to face ork attacks largely with their own resources. The way I'd like to build up the sub, though, is as a lot more unified. A high degree of cohesion and organisation is unusual in a lot of Imperial sectors, with worlds developing along much more individual lines - but the Castellan sub is not operating in usual circumstances. The Lord Militant Protector has organised the militarised zone (which is most of the sub) so that each world is part of an effective defensive line and war machine, with roles to play in launching attacks and providing defences. If there were any worlds which weren't able to withstand invasions then the military command would do whatever it took to make sure they could. Likewise, even if Massil is the most common staging point for counter-invasions (which I have no problem with), then if Massil is the first planet to fall to the new Waaagh! then where do you launch your counter-invasion from if you stop it there but Massil is trashed? If you want to make Massil a front-line planet but still prominent in the sub's military infrastructure, I can think of a few ways. Some possibilities: - as one of the sub's most prosperous worlds pre-invasion, Massil remains a symbolic centre of Imperial power and its military organisation and culture are still looked up to (although let's not overplay this, let's allow the other worlds' militaries some individuality);
- Massil is best able of all the frontier worlds to handle large transient populations, so it tends to be the first place where new forces from deeper inside Anargo arrive before they move on to their actual garrison assignments at other frontier worlds, making it a logistical and population hub; or
- Massil has a significance to the war effort beyond the strictly military, such as the station for a cell of Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, the temple of a Magos (Xeno)Biologis who supplies knowledge to the military command in return for opportunities to study (I'm keen to have this in Castellan somewhere, so why not here?), or something similar.
Obviously I'd rather you didn't use all of these, at least not without watering them down a little, but you get the idea. Let me know if you'd like to kick any of these around in any more detail.
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Massil
Mar 30, 2004 13:25:47 GMT -5
Post by Femerenden on Mar 30, 2004 13:25:47 GMT -5
Do not forget that the first target of a Waaaagh! will be the planet with the most defenders on it(Due to the fluff).
So bringing a lot of man will atract a lot of Orks. Dividing those man will be concluded in the destruction of the sub; before any help will come.
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Massil
Mar 31, 2004 0:30:44 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Mar 31, 2004 0:30:44 GMT -5
Ooooh, this looks promising! Looking forward to the "Std Rep" ;D
I think Sikkukkut has some good points though, and that the subsector will become much more interesting if the Castellan subsector if it is dependant on keeping a heavily defended line against the ork threat, instead of one or two fortress worlds that form the tip of a defense pyramid. It also makes more sense.
However... I think the idea of an Ordo Xenos cell or a Magos Xenos Biologis on this planet is cool, but I don't see these having a really big impact on the strategic value of Massil, unless you think of a special reason, like special resources in their possession (like artifacts), but I'm kinda skeptic about that.
The idea that Massil is especially able to handle large transient population makes sense though, since it has large agricultural regions, which would be pretty unique for for a fortress-world, I imagine. If we're operating with the concept of Astronomican beacons, the world could still have beacons from when it was a subsector capitol, making it a good rally point.... Of course, this implies that beacons are something other than a choir of astropaths, or whatever...
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Massil
Mar 31, 2004 6:00:58 GMT -5
Post by Tynesh on Mar 31, 2004 6:00:58 GMT -5
Applies brakes to speedy writing of Std Rep and begins to review work!!!!!! That has helped me a great deal guys, just thought about some of the things you mentioned and there relevance. Many defences is better than one big one (Cadia : that can easily be bypassed. Since it was the former sub-sector capital, many stable warp passages/streams/currents etc. will centre on the system, meaning that for ease of deployment the system has a strategic value. Transient population/armies/garrisons might be better to up the Spaceport to maybe a C level then. Don't like the idea of an Ordo Xenos cell operating on the planet. However there is a world somewhere with a small population (100) on an asteroid of little significance in an empty star system, maybe we could use this for that purpose. I think the stoic determination and the fortitude displayed by the defenders should be an aspiring ideal for many people in the sub. The phrase "As stubborn as a Massilian Housewife" springs to mind ;D Not sure about this Ferm... Why get a bloody nose from the bully when you can first tie his shoelaces together and trip him up, then execute a good kick to his goolies when he is on the floor. Most objectives in warfare tend to be the easiest ones first, breaking supply lines and cutting power, rather than running straight into the enemies gunsights. Cheers for the Help, just go do a little bit of typing!
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Massil
Apr 3, 2004 17:05:09 GMT -5
Post by TheGlyphstone on Apr 3, 2004 17:05:09 GMT -5
Most objectives in warfare tend to be the easiest ones first, breaking supply lines and cutting power, rather than running straight into the enemies gunsights. But, since when do Orks use efficient military tactics?
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Massil
Apr 3, 2004 17:47:16 GMT -5
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 3, 2004 17:47:16 GMT -5
But, since when do Orks use efficient military tactics? The reason that I rather like this somewhat tongue-in-cheek comment is that, if the 'wily ork warlord' wished it he could probably do the rather nasty to the Anargo sector. But part of the original premise - maybe realistic, maybe not - was that he sent out the young upstarts to throw themselves against the walls of Castellan... ... and simultaneously demanding the substantial dedicated of resources to that subsector which might actually remove the 'prying eye' from another, more interesting locale... Kage
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Massil
Apr 4, 2004 5:19:41 GMT -5
Post by Tynesh on Apr 4, 2004 5:19:41 GMT -5
"Da Big Boss iz ded krafty!" hmmm indeed, an interesting thought, I better read the post again because I'm not too sure what I am talking about and I am getting confused
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Massil
Apr 7, 2004 7:20:42 GMT -5
Post by Sojourner on Apr 7, 2004 7:20:42 GMT -5
What I'd find interesting with Ork tactics would be if such advanced ideas were incorporated into the 'genetic memory' of Bosses, so that while they think they're doing such things simply to sieze supplies and such for themselves, what they're actually doing is acting on a subconscious impulse driving them to use quite advanced tactics against an enemy...
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Massil
Apr 7, 2004 19:17:35 GMT -5
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 7, 2004 19:17:35 GMT -5
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Massil
Apr 8, 2004 6:06:49 GMT -5
Post by Tynesh on Apr 8, 2004 6:06:49 GMT -5
I also agree with the beetroot analogy concerning genetic memory! Genes are responsible for the passing on of information, coding for proteins, not electrical impulses, which is how memory is formed (not so much stored). The only alien in 40k with any true form of memory removal from another organism would be the Lictor which inserts it feeders into a host brain (suposedly synapsing with the host and allowing memory or orders the unfortunate soul has recently recieved) Even this is a bit far fetched! Kroot and Space Marines are capable of absorbing memory by eating parts of an enemy, this is pretty much rubbish. Kroot could theoretically manipulate their genome by absorbing DNA from a killed enemy, however the process would require at least a comprehensivley equipped genetic engineering lab within their digestive system with which to remove the victims genome, locate a specific gene, replicate it and then integrate it into their own genome, then being able to reproduce this cell as part of the next generation! Orks have an inate knowledge of things that is stupidly far-fetched. Mek-boyz know all they know cause it is in their genes! Science now believes that humans only have one basic instinct when born, all others must be learnt. This response being to such the nipple in the middle of the brown blob on any breast infront of you. This is a long way from being born and be fully able to construct a giant robotic killing machine, a space capable vehicle or let alone conduct battle planning at a Wellington-Montgomery level!
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Massil
Apr 8, 2004 6:39:08 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Apr 8, 2004 6:39:08 GMT -5
Funny, I thought this thread was started to discuss Massil Well, as long as you're all spamming, I might as well join the fray. Humans also have genetic memory, though that is a rather bad term for it. Humans instinctively fear spiders and snakes, for example. A child doesn't need to be bitten by a snake in order to know it's bad business. This is not because we are born with a few facts about snakes, such as their capacities, their different shapes and sizes, but because we instinctively fear all things that slither like a snake. *In the same fashion as humans are born with an aptitude for survival in the wild (even if it's not as good as that of animals), the orks have an aptitude for survival in combat. This is why orks don't have boot camps. If humans can be born with certain "knowledge" of the world, however insignificant or small, this suggests that the genes are capable of storing similar data, and perhaps even more complex stuff. I'm not saying that the genetic memory of orks is a realistic possibility, I'm just saying that it's not among the most unrealistic things in 40k, which I'm sure you'll agree with I agree that the whole Lictor, Kroot and Space Marine memory-absorbing stuff is a load of crap though * I've read this in my psychology books. God knows psychology books aren't always right, but at least I'm not making it up
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Massil
Apr 9, 2004 8:49:12 GMT -5
Post by Tynesh on Apr 9, 2004 8:49:12 GMT -5
CELS sorry but I don't agree with the statement of human genetic memory. Yes people fear spiders and snakes, however these are stigmas buried deep in society and teaching. Children learn from parents and others that spiders are scary etc. The snake is seen in Western Biblical cultures as an agent of the devil etc and therefore associated with bad things. Many people can easily handle these animals with no problem because they know how to handle them and that if they treat the animal correctly they are not at risk of being bitten. However they are not without caution (steve Irwin knows when to leave a snake alone) Yes orks able to survive in combat, their physiology is adapted to fight, but they must still learn to use weapons and such (hence feral ork tribes). Humans are able to survive in the wild fairly well, but newborns and infants don't they do not equip the required survival skills. Babies learn a lot by taste, ie chewing stuff, they learn what things are not nice to eat by tasting them, thus they are mentally conditioned into not eating sour and bitter foods (ie lemons, coffee) because they are bad. Later in life you learn to overcome these conditions by forcing yourself to drink coffee to remain awake etc. OK OT ended. Lets get back to Massil!
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Massil
Apr 9, 2004 9:29:02 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Apr 9, 2004 9:29:02 GMT -5
You don't agree with it? Well, it wasn't my personal opinion, it was what I've read in psychology books. Unless you can point to scientific studies that show that humans' fear of spiders and snakes are taught by "society and teaching", I think I'll stick with what psychologists from around the world have found Specifically, scientists have found that humans do not instinctively fear the snakes by their colour, shape or sound, but by the way they move. They have come to this conclusion because children do not seem to fear snakes or spiders when simply presented in pictures. When they see movies that show the snakes slithering across land, the children are frightened however. And obviously, they use very young children which have not been taught about snakes, since the experiments would have very low reliability on grown-ups or children who have read the bible, for example. I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the psychologists who did the experiments, and I can't be bothered looking for the names. Here is another study though, which has found the same results in a different manner. I can't vouch for the credibility of this study, but there you go For those of you who can't be bothered reading the article, here's a quote for ya. "Certainly there are certain stimuli that are pre-wired in the brain because they have been perennially dangerous to our ancestors,"Oh, and btw, don't roll your eyes at Steve 'LOOK at this beeeaautiful specimen' Irwin!!! I won't have that on this forum Ork feral tribes do not lack weapons because they haven't been trained properly, but because many orks are very distrusting of technology, preferring simple spears and axes. Shooting is considered unorky by many orks anyways, particularly by Goffs. Also, there are ork infestations in places where there is little access to weapons, such as Imperial worlds, which is why the ork tribes in these places are usually feral.
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Massil
Apr 9, 2004 10:53:43 GMT -5
Post by Sojourner on Apr 9, 2004 10:53:43 GMT -5
Nerve impulses are generated by the synaptic arrangements of the brain - Correct?
What determines the synaptic arrangements of the brain?
That is all...
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