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Post by CELS on Jan 11, 2004 11:35:22 GMT -5
Think of it more as snowballing instead of a circular argument. Orks do have the technology for warp travel, and do explore new areas, such as Angelis (GorkaMorka). Warp travel is just easier for orks under a Waaagh!, because of their collective psychic powers. The more orks that are going to a system, and the bigger the enthusiasm for a fight, the stronger the warp current, which makes it easier for other orks to join the Waaagh!
As for the 'breaker', what more do you need? A) You have about a billion Imperial citizens who prepare to give their lives defending their worlds, which I imagine might create some kind of barrier or 'force field' in the warp, following the logic of Ork warp travel. B) There's the fact that orks are drawn in the direction of the warp. Once the orks get as far as the fighting, there are no warp currents going further that they can 'hitch a ride' with, so the few orks who want to try and get past the Castellan fortress worlds without fighting would depend on a slower method of travel (plain calculated warp jumps)
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Post by Tynesh on Jan 12, 2004 2:49:06 GMT -5
Maybe a yet-to-be-known conscience that exists in the warp in the locality of the sub. During the initial reconquest of the sector in the expansion of man, the Emperor's forces fought titantic battles with the orks in this reason of space. One individual, a missionary for the word of the Emperor, was an inspirational figure in these dark times and many saw him as truly blessed by the New Lord of Humanity. His presence inspired and strengthened the resolve of men wherever he strode, such was his power of will that the orks quailed at the sight of him. During one of the final battles to clear what would later become the sub-sector this iconic figure fell fighting humanities foes. But even as his last breath escaped his body he swore to watch over the region as long as humans inhabitied the sub-sector.
When in times of dire need when the hopes of men stretches to face the unfaceable the Guardian of the (SUB?) is there to throw back the foes of men turning the tides of the warp and deflecting their blows upon the sacred lands of man.
Hmmmm comments!
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Post by CELS on Jan 13, 2004 18:55:21 GMT -5
Who was this guy then? Some sort of Saint, like the one in the Tanith novels? It's just that I haven't heard of any Saints with such tremendous powers as this. Hmm, I'm not sure about this.
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Post by zholud on Jan 25, 2004 2:30:41 GMT -5
Who was this guy then? Some sort of Saint, like the one in the Tanith novels? It's just that I haven't heard of any Saints with such tremendous powers as this. Hmm, I'm not sure about this. I guess it should be worked out in lines similar to Emperor's Daemons made by Brusilov long age. Look up his writings on Portent for inspiration, I suppose. As to thing which starts the tide inflow I propose the decrease in infighting and thus 'violent emotions' in the wide sense in the sector, which creates 'empty' warp, so it flows here from the regions of higher density. This also creates interesting toyings about the fall on the edge of success kind of things.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 26, 2004 21:33:14 GMT -5
See! It's really simple when you apply a bit of imagination and structure to things! Oh, and at the present the Emperor's Daemons will not be showing up... Kage
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Post by zholud on Jan 30, 2004 12:45:36 GMT -5
Oh, and at the present the Emperor's Daemons will not be showing up... Why not? Personal grudges?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 30, 2004 20:23:26 GMT -5
Nope.. but they would requiire significant parallel interpretation. Kage
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Post by Taffer on May 26, 2004 20:37:27 GMT -5
I like this idea. I mean, I really like this idea. It creates so many cool images that I can hardly contain them! Granted I don't actually know what the effect of this will be (I havn't even got around to reading about the Orks in the ASP yet...: I'll offer my insights. Now, I recall reading somewhere that Deamons are made of the same 'stuff' as the rest of the Immaterium. I may be wrong, in which case ignore all this, but if I'm not that means that Deamons and 'Warp entities' would be able to effect the warp in such a way as to create currents, etc. Again assuming this to be true, how about the possibility that this phenomenon is actually created by some type of very large warp-creature. Maybe even in the shape of a snake (but let's face, it could be anything...it is the warp after all...). As it travels away from the galaxy, it's movements create the pattern you describe. Just a thought...
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Post by Kage2020 on May 26, 2004 22:14:17 GMT -5
Now, I recall reading somewhere that Deamons are made of the same 'stuff' as the rest of the Immaterium. That's one of those things that I would tentatively agree with (it's hard not to), but also suggest great care since you get into the highly dubious - and boorish - imagery of a ship sailing through "daemon bodies". While that may appeal to some peoples' Lovecraftian/Dantian image of the warp and, indeed, be reminiscent of the 'chaos drop' in Fire Warrior still great care should be taken. There are non-chaos creatures within the warp and, not only that, but we must not think of it as a 'chaos dimension'. Rather it is a natural and parallel dimension which, through sentient thought and emotion, has become 'corrupted' by Chaos. Remnants and artefacts of the 'peaceful'/harmonious warp still exist and, indeed, can be thought of as translating to the 'stable portions' of the Warp (not necessarily the same as a current, but that's also a potential)... I may be wrong, in which case ignore all this, but if I'm not that means that Deamons and 'Warp entities' would be able to effect the warp in such a way as to create currents, etc. While I would question how you got there, I do find the image interesting. Indeed, it was suggested earlier on as the 'heartbeat' of some fantastically powerful daemon that resided at the 'heart' of the sector. While that is no longer possible (cf. "Heart of Anargo" thread) or, rather, would require the mashing of several concepts, the idea still does have some power... The mention of a snake actually prompted me to think about Ouroborous, guardian of the roots of the World Tree. Given the fact that my own 'warp structure' is designed to loosely represent the Kabbalistic "Tree of Life", it does create an interesting potential. With that said, however, tying it to a daemon would be bad... tying it to an 'indegenous' warp creature would have greater novelty value but may run into some conceptual problems, more specifically people might complain. However, it is an interesting concept and like the tentative 'super-current' which is drawn through Anargo because of the black hole (and which creates the 'white water rapids' at the Heart of Anargo) integrates the sector into wider-reaching phenomenon. That can only be a good thing. As it travels away from the galaxy, it's movements create the pattern you describe. Although perhaps not a snake... reminds me too much of Star Trek Generations! Kage
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Post by Taffer on May 27, 2004 8:38:11 GMT -5
When I said snake, I really ment a multi-dimensional, Chaotic, snake. You know, something that we can't exactly visualise? But I see your point. I was thinking about it some more, and I also like the 'Black Hole' theory. And it seems to fit in nicely to the rest of the sector, so that may be IMHO the way to go. Although, I still can't help loving the 'Massive Current' theory too. Arg!
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Post by Kage2020 on May 27, 2004 13:18:29 GMT -5
When I said snake, I really ment a multi-dimensional, Chaotic, snake. So was I. Although I wasn't meaning Chaos... that's something which is way too overused when you play around with the concepts of the warp. That's a part of the thing that Anargo is trying to debunk in terms of setting, not in application, i.e. that everything to do with the warp is chaotic. Note the different words there, though: setting and application. You know, something that we can't exactly visualise? I personally already have two of those: the upper and lower manifold spaces! Their manifestation in the Warp is not a true reflection of what they are... But that's a massive aside. I was thinking about it some more, and I also like the 'Black Hole' theory. And it seems to fit in nicely to the rest of the sector, so that may be IMHO the way to go... <grin> You should check out the "Heart of Anargo" thread in this very board. You will note that we discuss the concepts herein. I just think it's a good thing to work along the lines of integration where possible, i.e. drawing in the numerous ideas into a solid conceptualisation fo what the 'warp' is, etc. Although, I still can't help loving the 'Massive Current' theory too. Arg! LOL... Well, check out some of the other threads (i.e. the one mentioned above) and see what you can make of it...! Kage
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on May 27, 2004 14:05:39 GMT -5
Eh; you stated that the "pendulum tide" flows into or away from the Anargo Sector; does it have a particular direction of flow? In other words, does this "push/pull" have a particular direction in terms of three-dimensional space? EG, towards or away from the EoT/Maelstrom. Or does it create a "falling into a well" (or singularity) effect or a "rolling down a hill" (or on the surface of a ball) effect that pulls/pushes in relation to where you are and which way the Warp is flexing? If it's the last one, then the cause would have to be something in the Anargo Sector or the concerted effects of events in nearby sectors...or of course a natural warp mechanic (insofar as those exist). But otherwise the "cause" needn't necessarily be in the Anargo Sector. As on the portent background forum, I'm confusing myself again...I've probably gone back over old/discussed ground....
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 1:51:24 GMT -5
Eh; you stated that the "pendulum tide" flows into or away from the Anargo Sector; does it have a particular direction of flow? The current mechanic is that the Pendulum Tide is actually related to the Waaghs from the 'Ork Empire' and the 'psychic presence' of Castellan or, rather, the defenders. When the battle goes well for the Imperium the Pendulum Tide is reversed, flowing back out of the ?Anargo sector towards the Cruciatine sector. When the orks are 'doing well', the flow is reversed... A bit wish-washy but a thousand times better than the original idea of actually not giving it any explanation and just including the 'cool concept'. ...or of course a natural warp mechanic (insofar as those exist). Oh, they exist... Kage
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Post by CELS on May 31, 2004 7:37:13 GMT -5
In my opinion, the current mechanic has a lot more merit than the idea of a huge warp entity that causes the 'pendulum effect'. When it comes to really, really big warp phenomenons, I prefer explanations rooted in the materium.
That's not to say that I totally dislike the idea of a warp entity creating a special current/flow in the warp. I actually like the idea as well, but in my opinion, this works best on a smaller scale, such as a single system or a warp route.
Doesn't the Pendulum tide affect a warp route? Well, yeah, but it's not just a single warp route from one system to another. It's the whole area between the Castellan sub and the Ork empire, many lightyears wide.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 1, 2004 5:31:16 GMT -5
With the above description taken in consideration, it's best to use the established mechanic. Even though it's a bit "new age" or "hippie" for my liking, I'm rather keen on the concept of metaphor that it introduces. (E.g. I'm rather fond of the idea of daemonic interpretation not seeing warp currents, or whatever, but movement of armies, or whatever. Indeed, it was once suggested the Warhamemr world is, in fact, the warp... I rather like the suggestion, mainly because I made it, even though it will not be showing up here...) So yes, the Pendulum Tide is reverse when those pesky orks are rebuffed by the stalwart defences of Castellan, square chins and Roger Ramjet personalities all! Of course, exploring the concept elsewhere would be intriguing but also require a rewriting of the concept for something entirely new... Kage
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