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Post by Destecado on Dec 2, 2004 13:07:13 GMT -5
I would assume so, I have no problem altering the numbers for that, 46 day years are just not right, so if this gives me a reason to increase the lenth of the year then great. But not to the extreme maybe increase it to 148 days (4 times the origional lenth and so maybe giving us four seasons) 148 may be a little too long. Mercury, which is the closest orbit to our own sun (without being vaporized) orbits in 88 days. To account for a rather large eliptical orbit, what if we calculate the number of days for a planet orbiting in the 0 orbit (habitable zone of red dwarf) and one orbiting in the first orbit and then take the average? The world is not volcanically active to any great extent nor is there much in the way of heavy industry(at least not yet there isn't as I still havn't decided on a concept as such) so if theres some other naturally occuring corrosive gas or compound then that should do. Incedentally what would you need for nitric acid to form, or hydroflouric acid(which is used for etching glass I think). Nitric acid seems to be our best candidate so far. Hydrofluoric acid is more of a problem. Large quantities of the gas might be to volatile to exist for long . It also bonds readily with metals and other elements such as sodium...Does the planet have a large amount of ferrous metal? Alot of the florine might be bound up there or in calcium floride minerals. Nitrogen dioxide on the other hand very common. How is this for a scenario. As the temperature increases, it cause a greater rate of evaporation from the oceans. The water molecules can react with the nitrogen dioxide to form nitric acid and one free oxygen. Actually if the florine is reacting with the Sodium in the salt water of the ocean, we could end up with chlorine being present...whch is a strong oxidizer as well. If it bonds with Hydrogen to form hydrogenchloride, then it would create create hydrocloric acid in solution with water. It could be that as the planet cools (as it moves further away from the star) these substances suspeneded in the atmosphere mix with condensing water vapor and fall to earth as acid rain. This decrease in humidity as the water vapor previously suspeneded in the air falling back to earth may account for some of the drop in temperature. On areas where the acid rain falls on land, you may have a build up of minieral forms of these compounds (as the moisture evaporates). Maybe these minerals are what is being mined.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 13:17:32 GMT -5
Perfect, Nitrogen is very common every where so it will be good to use it in an interesting way. Would it form an acid fog or would it be more of an upper atmosphere affair.
Ah my other favourite acid, this is more corosive than nitric acid isn't it. Would these acids remain seperate or can you mix them up tho get an even stronger acid. Either way hydrochloric is in, as is chlorine, would that mean low level clouds of green vapour.
Would that mean it would be safe to go outside.
Absolutly, but would they be valuable minerals though. Valuable to warrant the resource value. It doesn't matter if they are not as normal mining could still take place.
97.31 days
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Post by Destecado on Dec 2, 2004 14:19:45 GMT -5
Perfect, Nitrogen is very common every where so it will be good to use it in an interesting way. Would it form an acid fog or would it be more of an upper atmosphere affair. Nitrogen is heavier than air so it would probably be a low hanging fog. Nitrogen dioxide is also heavier than cardbon dioxide, which would probably be stratified above it...of course we would also need to account for the sturring action of the planetary winds. we may wind up with different stratified layers of gas that precipitate out at different temperatures. Of course pure nitrogen, not bonded with another element would be above the CO2 so as it combined with the rising water vabor it would probably sink through the CO2...hence some stiring action in the atmosphere. Ah my other favourite acid, this is more corosive than nitric acid isn't it. Would these acids remain seperate or can you mix them up tho get an even stronger acid. Either way hydrochloric is in, as is chlorine, would that mean low level clouds of green vapour. I'm not sure about combining them directly to make a stronger acid, but chemicall you could perhaps wind up with Carbon Tetrachloride (CCl 4). This is a synthetic compund that is highly toxic. It saw use in fire exstinquishers, refrigeration and dry cleaning. It is usally made by reacting carbon disulfide with chlorine...being that there is not alot of volcanic activity (so maybe low sulfer content) on the planet, it may occur only rarely (if at all) naturally in the atmosphere we are creating. More likely would be Silicon Tetrachloride. It occures when chlorin reacts with hot silicon. Silicon is the second most abundant element in the earths crust, so it may also factor highly in this planet's crust. Unlike Carbon Tetrachloride, Silicon Tetrachloride is water soluble. Silicon tetrachloride is sometimes used as an intermediate in the purification of silicon. It may be that the chemicals naturaly break down Silica as called Silicon Oxide into a purer form of silicon. Silica naturally exists in quartz and opal. There are also severla plants that are rich in Silica...although the probably wouldn't be found on this planet. Another possible compound might be Dimethyl carbamoyl chloride (C 3H 6ClNO). This again is not naturally occuring on earth, but may occur naturallyin the atmosphere we are creating. Dimethyl carbamoyl chloride is a colorless liquid. It rapidly hydrolyzes in water to dimethylamine, carbon dioxide, and hydrogen chloride. Dimethyl carbamoyl chloride will react with water or steam to produce toxic and corrosive fumes. When heated to decomposition, it emits toxic fumes of hydrochloric acid and other chlorinated compounds as well as nitrogen oxides Would that mean it would be safe to go outside. With filter masks during the colder parts of the year....maybe. Instead of rad (radiation levels) maybe the inhabitants have tools that monitor ph levels in the air. Absolutly, but would they be valuable minerals though. Valuable to warrant the resource value. It doesn't matter if they are not as normal mining could still take place. I can't say. I quess it all depends on the kinds of industry that will take place on the plnaet. Maybe there could be gold or other precious mineral mining. Some of the compundes and acids are useful for removing gold from rock. What industries did you have in mind for the planet? 97.31 days[/quote]
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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 16:41:30 GMT -5
Thats the one right there, I'll go with that one Dimethyl carb watcha mecallit, So thats carbon, hydrogen, chlorine, nitrogen and oxygen, mmm complex I like that idea alot, so its in. Errr mining was as far as I got, but I suppose chemical engineering, ore smelting, gas distilation, plasteel mills, iron works, heavy industry basically, all the really fancy stuff would be done off world. Thats the average between orbit 0 and orbit 1
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Post by Destecado on Dec 3, 2004 10:02:19 GMT -5
Thats the one right there, I'll go with that one Dimethyl carb watcha mecallit, So thats carbon, hydrogen, chlorine, nitrogen and oxygen, mmm complex Yeah, alot of the other nitrogen and carbon compunds might be dervide from this when it mixes with water. Errr mining was as far as I got, but I suppose chemical engineering, ore smelting, gas distilation, plasteel mills, iron works, heavy industry basically, all the really fancy stuff would be done off world. There may be alot of metal on the planet. Based on the gravity, it looks like the planet has a denser core than earth. Is this metal or other heavier elements? Maybe there could be high levels of titanium (or titanium oxide) The chemical compunds we have discussed are also important in the production of plastics and refining of metals so the industries that you have mentioned should work well. Have you given any though to high levels of scilicon that could be used in a variety of industries (computers, telecommunications, energy distribution, etc.) Thats the average between orbit 0 and orbit 1 97.31 days sounds great...have you had a chance to calculate the changes this will cause in the planetary temperature?
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Post by Dazo on Dec 3, 2004 10:37:46 GMT -5
Err no, not as such, I didn't know I would need to, then there's the fact that Idon't actually know how to. Silica is used in the steel industry for hardening and deoxidising the metal, as well as in glass and pottery manufacture, also in silicon chips plus it can form opals, and I really like opals. plus silicon and carbon can make carborundum, second hardest thing known to man I think Tianium oxide is good i'll have some of that, along with cobalt, always good to have cobalt, platinum group metals are good, as is Niobium, used in superconductors, magnetic alloys and jet engines. Edit: We shouldn't really need to work out new temperature values as altering the orbit was supposed to explain the values we already had.
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