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Post by malika on May 30, 2004 3:09:22 GMT -5
I need help with this, I once made a thread on Portent about naval warfare in the 40k universe...most people didnt like it because in 40k they could just throw bombs from orbit. (that was one of the most used arguments why naval combat couldnt be in 40k...or so they say)
But I believe there is a possibility for naval warfare, I need some help with this, I want to create some Imperial ships.
So a few questions: -How large would these ships be? -What kind of weaponry would they have? -Would they be part of the Imperial Guard or Imperial Navy (those humans in the space ships), of would they be a whole different part of the Imperial militairy? -How would they be transported? Very large drop pods, or vehicles like the new Epic space marine orbital lander? (that thing that carries rhinos)
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 3:52:05 GMT -5
I need help with this, I once made a thread on Portent about naval warfare in the 40k universe...most people didnt like it because in 40k they could just throw bombs from orbit. (that was one of the most used arguments why naval combat couldnt be in 40k...or so they say) This might sound like a daft question, but by 'naval' are you meaning aquatic conflict, either surface or marine? If so, it would have it's place (i.e. underwater arcologies and the requirement of submarines). Extended marine conflict would be problematic, but again it might have it's position. As to what size and weapons? If you're to believe GW surely you just take WWII ships and replace some of the weapons with plasma guns or the like... Kage
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Post by CELS on May 30, 2004 4:30:00 GMT -5
LoL! The orbital bombardement argument is the most stupid argument I ever hear in discussions like these. "Why doesn't the Imperium just use Titans against Tau?" "Because the Tau can just use orbital bombardement."
Yes, aquatic fleets and titan legions can be destroyed with orbital bombardement. But a guardsman hiding behind a sandbag isn't exactly invulnerable either.
The size of the ships... depends on whether or not they intend to deploy the ships on other worlds. Obviously, a 10,000 ton aquatic cruiser will be a pain to in a dropship.
So, ships that are going offworld should probably be up to frigate size or something. What kind of weaponry? Much of the same weaponry as seen on super-heavy tanks. Part of Imperial Guard or Imperial Navy? Imperial Navy. Method of transport... very large drop pods that land in shallow waters and pull ships in.
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Post by malika on May 30, 2004 4:42:30 GMT -5
Maybe for the transport of the larger ships the Imperium uses something alike to what is used to transport Titans.
Smaller gunboats (you know those really small ones you see in those jungle war movies) could be about the size of a Rhino or Chimaira, armed with a twin-linked autocannon perhaps? These are mainly used to patrol small rivers or supply the army on land. These would be small but very fast ships
Corvettes (not sure yet), probably a bit smaller than a Thunderhawk Gunship, armed with serveral twin-linked autocannons and lascannons, and then variable weaponry, depending on it;s function: -Anti Air Support: The ship would be armed with 2 or 3 Hydra AA Turrets for anti air support. -Artillery: The ship would have a twin-linked earthshaker cannon to take out later land targets. buildings or large enemy ships. -Transport: Most part of the hull would be "empty" so troops and their support could fit in, I assume 1 Imperial Guard platoon and some support (1 tank or some Sentinels) -Landing platform: The deck of the ship will contain 2 landing platforms, able to have Valkeries and Vultures to land on them (on flyer per platform) These ships are larger, but still fast.
Submarines: Thunderhawk sized ships (depending on class), armed with torpedoes and a twin linked autocannon on top. They could also carry small pod, able to transport 5 Storm Troopers and their equipment.
I find normal militairy stuff to be a bit "unbulky" for 40k, 40k stuff is always a bit bulkier and a little bit more high tech looking, simply putting a plasma gun on a WWII model doesnt really do it for me. Maybe use plastic-card and parts from Tanks on it...
But ok back to topic, Im talking about image and background, not on how I would model the thing.
The Imperial Navy controls the space ships and fighters, could be a good idea to have them control aquatic ships too. But I would still put some smaller ships under IG control, I mean that some regiments have ships (gun boats and corvets) of their own. While the Imperial Navy would have all the ships and also the larger ones.
Would I be too crazy to assume that large battleships would be like Warlord Titan sized?
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 5:05:44 GMT -5
In that case I would suggest checking out something like Jane's Directory to get real world information on this as inspiration. Kage
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Post by malika on May 30, 2004 5:09:53 GMT -5
Where could I find this "Jane's Directory"?
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 5:23:57 GMT -5
Where could I find this "Jane's Directory"? A library! It's much like the 'Net. You go into it and do a quick search and you'll be amazed at the type of information that it has. Seriously, however, a good library would be a great location to find it. Then again, Jane's also does a lot of computer game simulations and they tend to incorporate a lot of interesting information... Kage
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Post by malika on May 30, 2004 5:34:34 GMT -5
Ah ok like that...I will look for it when Im at the libary again I had some ideas for battleships: Battleship: A Warlord Titan sized ship, armed with 4 twin-linked battle cannons from front to mid, behind that are 2 twinlinked Earthshaker cannons. Behind these turrets is the control tower, which is armed with a few twin linked autocannons. In the back there are 2 hydra anti air turrets and a landing platform for a small transport ship so that the officers could escape, or other officers/inquisitors could land. (Valkery or Vulture sizes) There are several twin linked autocannons between the large battle cannon turrets. The ship can carry 4 landing craft, each capable of transporting 20 guardsmen and their equipment. Amphibious Landing craft: They are about twice the size of a Chimaira, the craft is armed with either a Autocannon, Heavy Bolter, Missle Launcher, Multilaser or Lascannon. It has a crew of 2: one who controls the vehicle, the other one as it's gunner. The craft can carry up to 20 guardsmen and their full equipment
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 6:39:48 GMT -5
That just sounds like a light destroyer, so looking at the real world is already something that you're doing! The question is whether you can "sell" what you're doing in a way that appeals. Remember the factor is all about creating this information yourself! Kage
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Post by malika on May 30, 2004 6:53:01 GMT -5
Ok...I will work out some ideas, maybe even trying to use those very detailed stuff like what kind of nails the ship has. And when I done that I post some here.
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Post by malika on May 31, 2004 2:13:15 GMT -5
An idea for an AA corvette: (yes very wargame oriented)
Adeptus Mechanicus Avitus Pattern Anti Aircraft Corvette
Crew: -Tech Captian -Tech Luitenant -Tech Priest (including 2 Servitor Bodyguards) -Communication Officer -2 Navigation Servitors -6 Servitors (for Hydra Turrets) -12 Additional Servitors Total Crew: 26
Armament: -3 Hydra Class Anti Aircraft Turrets (each turret is controlled and reloaded by 2 Servitors) Hydra Class AA Turrets can turn 360 degrees transversable and elevation from 0 degrees to +90 degrees.
-8 twin-linked autocannon turrets (one of the left and one on the right of each hydra turret and two on the control tower) Autocannon Turrets on the deck can turn 45 degrees transversable to the left and 45 degrees to the right. Elevation + 45 degrees to -10 degrees. The other two Autocannon Turrets on the control tower can turn 360 degrees transversable and elevation from +75 degrees to -45 degrees.
Armour: -Each of the Hydra Turrets has 50mm armour on the front, 40mm on the sides and none in the back, the turret has to be reloaded there. -The autocannon turrets each have 15mm armour on all sides. -The Avitus' deck has 200mm armour on all sides. -The Avitus' control tower has 250mm armour on all sides.
Size: -90 metres in lenght -15 metres in height -7.5 metres in width
Speed: 22 knots
Weight: -Unloaded: 1300 tonnes. -Fully Loaded (including crew and ammunition): 1400 tonnes.
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Post by CELS on May 31, 2004 2:22:50 GMT -5
How did you come up with these numbers, Malika? I've found a link for a 260 foot corvette under development by the US Navy. 10 feet shorter than your corvette. Your corvette weighs 250 tonnes, this corvette weighs approximately 1100 tonnes. In other words, I think you need to reconsider your calculations. www.g2mil.com/frigate.htm
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Post by malika on May 31, 2004 2:49:35 GMT -5
ok I need to fix the weights..I know that, the size I got from ships from the Dutch Navy
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Post by malika on May 31, 2004 5:01:50 GMT -5
This next ship is also a Corvette, so the hull is the same as that of the Adeptus Mechanicus Avitus Pattern Anti Aircraft Corvette but with different weaponry, crew and armour. Adeptus Mechanicus Ryza Pattern Corvette: This Corvette Pattern is created on the Forge World of Ryza, famous for it's Plasma Tech.
Crew: -Tech Captian -Tech Luitenant -Tech Priest (including 2 Servitor Bodyguards) -Communication Officer -2 Navigation Servitors -8 Servitors (4 for each turret) -12 Additional Servitors Total Crew: 28
Armament: -2 Plasma Cannon Turrets, each containing two Ryza Pattern Plasma Cannons. The plasma cannons can turn 360 degrees transversable. Elevation +10 degrees to -5 degrees. -8 twin-linked autocannon turrets (two of the left and two on the right of each twin-linked plasma cannon turret and two on the control tower) Autocannon Turrets on the deck can turn 45 degrees transversable to the left and 45 degrees to the right. Elevation + 45 degrees to -10 degrees. The other two Autocannon Turrets on the control tower can turn 360 degrees transversable and elevation from +75 degrees to -45 degrees.
Armour: -The two Plasma Cannon Turrets have 75mm armour on all sides, the turrets can be entered, recharged and maintened from a hatch below the turret in the ship's hull. -The autocannon turrets each have 15mm of armour on all sides. -The Ryza Pattern Corvette has 225mm armour on all sides. -The control tower has 260mm armour on all sides.
Size: -90 metres in lenght -15 metres in height -7.5 metres in width
Speed: 20 knots
Weight: -Unloaded: 1500 tonnes -Loaded (Including crew and full equipment): 1700 tonnesAnother one: Imperial Navy Obsideus Pattern Corvette: The Obsideus Pattern is used mainly for sieges or to give heavy support for troops fighting on land. However, because of it's heavy weaponry, there are some modifications to the hull, such as that the control tower has been moved even more to the back of the ship. The Obsideus Pattern also lacks the extra Autocannon Turrets to protect it's main weapons, the control tower has it's normal weaponry.
Crew: -Captian -Luitenant -Commissar -Enginseer -Communication Officer -2 Navigation Officers -8 Crewmen for the Earthshaker Cannons (two for each) -22 Additional Crewmen (more crewmen are needed to maintain the ship, a Servitor is stronger than a human) Total: 37
Armament: -2 Twin-linked Heavy Artillery "Earthshaker" Cannons (4 crewmen for each twin-linked cannon) The cannons cannot move transversable. Elevation: from +10 degrees to +60 degrees.
The first twin-linked cannon is just in front of the middle of the ship, the cannons have no front or back armour, just side armour. The second twin-linked cannon just a bit behind it, again no front or back armour jsut side armour. However the four cannons are not just on top of the ship, they are partly inside the hull, giving them more protection than if they had been put just on the hull.
-Two Autocannon Turrets on the control tower can turn 360 degrees transversable and elevation from +75 degrees to -45 degrees.
Armour: -Standard 200mm armour on the ship, except for the parts near the Earthshaker Cannons, those are 250mm armour. -Control tower has the standard 250mm armour on all sides. -The sides of the Earthshaker Cannons have 100mm armour, no armour on the front because there is no room for armour there. And also no armour on the back because it's side armour goes all the way to the control tower, making it impossible for enemy vessels to attack the cannons' back.
Size: -90 metres in lenght -15 metres in height -7.5 metres in width
Weight: -Unloaded: 2200 tonnes -Fully Loaded: 2500 tonnesI hope Im getting the weights a bit right this time
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 1, 2004 5:42:19 GMT -5
ok I need to fix the weights..I know that, the size I got from ships from the Dutch Navy <spam> While I would say that the weight should be looked at, don't worry too much. GW has a tendency of underestimating things like this... *cough* power armour *cough* </spam> Kage
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