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Post by CELS on Nov 30, 2004 7:53:59 GMT -5
I'm still looking for a system, and I'm afraid I don't have either GURPS Mecha or GURPS Vehicles. Could someone point me to an online document or website that I can use to design these walkers?
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Post by Sojourner on Nov 30, 2004 10:28:21 GMT -5
www.hlj.com/scripts/hljpage.cgi?kbykp-03Here's a good example of what I'm getting at. It's not a Gundam but a Wildwurger, but the principle is the same. I'd probably 'goth' it up a bit if I were to ever do a conversion.
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Post by malika on Nov 30, 2004 11:05:14 GMT -5
Look at this...not very clear, but is it a Titan or a Knight?
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Post by Dazo on Nov 30, 2004 11:37:52 GMT -5
I think its closer to the size of a reaver titan, it looks a bit to big to be a knight and to small to be a warlord. Looks bloody cool though
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Post by Destecado on Dec 1, 2004 13:18:21 GMT -5
Cels,i've e-mailed you some pics of I.K. from W.D126 ,hope this helps? in some of the pictures in WD126 they look about 35-40 feet high as fleetmaster states. If we were to extrapolate an average height maximum for Knight Walkers of 40 feet, then the picture provided by malika could in fact be a Titan (Reaver Variant). Unfortunately, the angle is bad for measuring up the smaller miniatures at the bottom. Let us assume that the miniatures represent an average sized man of 6 feet in height. If we then mark off intervals of 6ft on the mecha, it will be well over the 40 feet maximum. What we are looking for is something that is twice as tall as a penitent engine (pictured below for comparisson)
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 1, 2004 17:09:29 GMT -5
Could someone point me to an online document or website that I can use to design these walkers? You can Google the "GURPS Vehicle Builder" program. It's free to download, but you cannot save anything and it might not make a great deal of sense if you don't have GURPS Vehicles... I'm fairly sure that if you go to various P2P sources/programs that are available you can download a copy. That's where I got my copy from. (I swiftly point out that I had previously purchased the hardcopy from a store and was having an electronic copy so that I wouldn't have to cart the book around everywhere I went... When it's a good book, I'll buy it as well as have a scan!) We can try and do an online design process once again, but we still need a way of relating 40k to something that tends to have a less grainy 'damage resolution', i.e. any RPG but including GURPS.
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 8:28:01 GMT -5
I'm afraid I won't be able to download the GURPS Vehicle Builder for a while, since the computers at my school are pre-historic things corrupted by chaos. If someone can help me (like you, Kage ), I think an online design process would be best. The simplicity of the 40k system and stats shouldn't be a problem, since there are no rules for Knights that I am aware of. This gives us the freedom of designing the Knights first and then making the rules to represent them later. At the moment, I'm thinking - for Greavedale Knights - (GURPS) TL 9 walkers, with weapons that are TL 7 or 8. Weapons would be 40 mm machine cannons and simple rocket launchers, mostly. The Knights would be very light, since they depend on huge rocket & jet-powered jump packs (GTL9) to pass difficult terrain. They would have a powerful engine that allow them to move through deep snow on their long legs, and do so with acceptable speed. Targeting systems would be quite primitive (GTL7/8). Some of the nobles and most decorated Knights would have better equipment and armament. What other info do you need? Oh, and in reply to Destecado and Dazo. The red walker above is not a Reaver Titan. No way. First of all, it doesn't look much taller than a Warhound Titan, and second of all, it doesn't even have the same basic shape of a Reaver Titan (see Forgeworld's website). If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that the walker posted by Malika is a Knight. See the small heraldic shield on its front? Probably snatched off a Bretonnian knight from WHFB. A Knight twice the size of a Penitent engine? Something like that, but slightly bigger.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 5, 2004 20:29:18 GMT -5
I'm afraid I won't be able to download the GURPS Vehicle Builder for a while, since the computers at my school are pre-historic things corrupted by chaos. I know the feeling. The cheapest 'Net connection that I could find is 28.8kb. <sniffle> If someone can help me (like you, Kage ), I think an online design process would be best. I can try my best. I really do need to try and figure out GURPS Vehicle Builder since I actually spent money on the pesky little begger. The simplicity of the 40k system and stats shouldn't be a problem, since there are no rules for Knights that I am aware of. I'm afraid that it does factor into the design process since there are canonical rules for the operation of Knights. They are, or at least were, published from the original Epic game. It's pretty easy to borrow from an appropriate sourcebook of GURPS for a weapon that would fill in the gap, but as proven in other threads that might not always provide something that is consistent with how other people view the 40k universe. This gives us the freedom of designing the Knights first and then making the rules to represent them later. Again, see Epic. I'm sure that the information is out there even if I don't have access to it at the moment. At the moment, I'm thinking - for Greavedale Knights - (GURPS) TL 9 walkers... Just so you know, Leg transmission are possible as low as GTL7 although they are twice as bulky as their GTL9 equivalents. with weapons that are TL 7 or 8. This is always a problem with the 40k universe. Why use outmoded weaponry when electric gatling guns, etc., would be produceable with the same rough level of technology? The Knights would be very light, since they depend on huge rocket & jet-powered jump packs (GTL9) to pass difficult terrain. That might be harder to do than you imagine, at least realistically. Eustakos would know more, but he hasn't been around for some time. They would have a powerful engine that allow them to move through deep snow on their long legs, and do so with acceptable speed. That we'll have to see with the design process. (Meaning that you could come back to it, but it is an interative process... the more powerful the transmission system, the bulkier it is and the less likely that you're going to have a lighter Knight that can have a jump pack, etc.) Targeting systems would be quite primitive (GTL7/8). Again, it begs the question as to 'Why?' Why do they have GTL9 transmission systems and lower tech weapons and other equipment, but once again GTL9 'jet packs'? (Easy answer is that they are only allowed those systems to be imported... But again, why?) What other info do you need? I have no idea. Never designed a Knight before.
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Post by CELS on Dec 6, 2004 9:42:43 GMT -5
I'm afraid that it does factor into the design process since there are canonical rules for the operation of Knights. They are, or at least were, published from the original Epic game. It's pretty easy to borrow from an appropriate sourcebook of GURPS for a weapon that would fill in the gap, but as proven in other threads that might not always provide something that is consistent with how other people view the 40k universe. I've asked the people on Portent. Let's see what good comes out of it. My idea was that for Knight Walkers from Greavedale, the walkers themselves were supposed to be made by the Protean Clergy (GTL9). But thanks. I just wanted the Knight Walkers to be easy to maintain, equip and re-arm by the Greavedale PDF, without too much help from the Protean Clergy. Electric gatling guns are ok, but 40 mm machine cannons would fit the description better (long range multi purpose). As for the rockets - simple dumbfire rockets are cheaper. Looking forward to hearing about this. Note that Greavedale is somewhat low-g though. Great. This is a compromise between making the conditions favorable for the Greavedale PDF and letting Proteus have a stranglehold on Greavedale. If the weapons and targetting systems were simple enough so that the mechanics of Greavedale understood them, the Knight walkers could fight for a while without needing the Protean clergy to help them. Should Greavedale feel that they don't need the Clergy anymore however, then it will only be so long before the Knight walkers come to a halt without their help. You can forget about extensive repairs. The thing is that I see the Knight Walkers as a part of the PDF rather than a sister-division of the AM Legio Titanica. They need to be simple enough so that the PDF can operate and maintain them, but they can still benefit from the help of the AM. Weee ;D
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Post by KomRADE on Dec 21, 2004 14:35:41 GMT -5
what are these Knights? are they like mini titans formed to protect them, or mearly a large version of chess on a few planets? I seriously like the model shown, and i shall try draw one. peace
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Post by rsljudd on Dec 29, 2004 8:26:37 GMT -5
as i understand it they were first developed to herd big animals (imagine Aliens.2? ,when S,W gets in the cargo transporter to fight the mother).....that's how i think it started then developed into tornements then ointi war machines *this is just a quick generalisation*
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 1, 2005 19:18:22 GMT -5
I can begin to construct a Knight if I'm given some rough generalisations as to how powerful they are to other 40k equipment...
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Post by CELS on Jan 1, 2005 21:07:30 GMT -5
what are these Knights? are they like mini titans formed to protect them, or mearly a large version of chess on a few planets? They're powerful walker warmachines created by the Adeptus Mechanicus to help the Knight world colonies they control, and to help the Knight worlds help them back. They're not nearly as powerful as Titans, but they are more numerous and don't seem to require the full support of the Adeptus Mechanicus to operate and maintain. If you mean the conversion, then I'm afraid I won't be able to use that in the ASP. There are only two Knight worlds in the Anargo sector at the moment, both created by myself. One has a very light type of walkers, which you can see a scetch of on the first page of the thread. The second world has a heavier type of walkers, similar to some 'mechs from the Battletech universe. You'd be better of trying to 40k-ify Battletech mechs such as the Thor and Loki, I think. as i understand it they were first developed to herd big animals (imagine Aliens.2? ,when S,W gets in the cargo transporter to fight the mother).....that's how i think it started then developed into tornements then ointi war machines *this is just a quick generalisation* Only if you choose to believe the ridiculous pieces of fluff on the Knights, which explain the history of hundreds of Knight worlds by taking a look at one of them. Then again, it could be that GW is suggesting that the same thing happened on all Knight worlds across the galaxy, but that would be so apalling that I'd convert to Star Trek if that was the case! I can begin to construct a Knight if I'm given some rough generalisations as to how powerful they are to other 40k equipment... Excellent! Let's start with the light Greavedale-type Knights, and then look at the heavy Nova Cerkes-types later. Height: Approximately 10 meters Weight: Dunno. 3 tons, maybe? Armament: Two autocannons. One on each side of the torso. In 40k terms, these would only count as autocannons (Strength 7, AP 4, Heavy 2). In real life terms, these would be really similar to the 25 mm Bushmaster. In addition to this, the Knight has one rocket battery on each side of the torso, on the inside of the autocannons. Each battery has 5 dumbfire rockets. In 40k terms, this would be a normal twin-linked missile launcher (Strength 8, AP 3, Heavy 1, or Strength 4, AP 4, Heavy 1 Template). In real life terms... I dunno. Use your imagination Armour: Medium armoured front, the rest is lightly armed. In 40k terms, this would be AV 12, 11, 10. Speed: Dunno. Maybe 45 km/h on the road? In 40k, it would only count as a walker anyway. Oh, and remember the jet-packs that hopefully allow these things to jump short distances on a world with 0.72 g. Anything else you need to know?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 2, 2005 0:31:15 GMT -5
They're powerful walker warmachines created by the Adeptus Mechanicus to help the Knight world colonies they control, and to help the Knight worlds help them back. They're not nearly as powerful as Titans, but they are more numerous and don't seem to require the full support of the Adeptus Mechanicus to operate and maintain. And they're needed as cowboys, if you believe the original 'fluff'. Only if you choose to believe the ridiculous pieces of fluff on the Knights, which explain the history of hundreds of Knight worlds by taking a look at one of them. Not everything has to be different. Just as broad brush strokes can look grainy when you look close enough, so to can fine ones. Both look unified at a distance, though. Erm, so what was the point of that? Not so sure. The concept of the Knights themselves is arguably more flawed than anything else and, indeed, one could also point that at the concept of the adeptus mechanicus at least how it is sometimes described. That was more by ways of "Boo, hiss GW" than anything else! Height: Approximately 10 meters <etc.> The physical dimensions will be iterative, coming out of the design itself. I shall try and get to it tomorrow, depending on inspiration and trying to figure out GURPS Vehicle Builder! Waahooo... these Knights really go into significant armament! In real life terms... I dunno. Use your imagination Limited load FFAR equivalents. Quite readily bastardised from something like GURPS High Tech since you're describing technology that's been around since, well, quite some time. Definitely the Vietnam War anyway... Makes me shudder at technological excitement at the height of 40k technology! Armour: Medium armoured front, the rest is lightly armed. In 40k terms, this would be AV 12, 11, 10. The latter of which is irrelevant to me, more since I've often found the 40k statistics to be largely... erm... grainy. The question that should be answered is what it is to be armoured against? There is a huge gamut of difference between how powerful a gun is in the 40k universe and how it might work in the real universe... Speed: Dunno. Maybe 45 km/h on the road? In 40k, it would only count as a walker anyway. That allows a rough guestimate of the power requirements for the leg drivetrain, at least. What about powerplant? What is the hodge-podge combination that are built into these things...? Oh, and remember the jet-packs that hopefully allow these things to jump short distances on a world with 0.72 g. I'll get to that with the magical antigravity paint that is probably required... (<grin> Just in case you didn't notice that was entirely tongue-in-cheek. Whether a 'jet pack' is possible with this vehicle is entirely dependent on just how it works out!) Anything else you need to know? How consistent do you want this to be? Hand-waving 40k anything goes because it is cool? Or something that might actually work given some reasonable assumptions? And another reminder why they put a couple of pea-shooters onto what would on the outset appear to be a fairly expensive piece of machinery? (Again, kind tongue-in-cheek... )
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Post by CELS on Jan 2, 2005 7:43:11 GMT -5
1) I want this Knight walker to be as realistic as can be, since I need to figure out if a flying walker is possible at all. I realise I might have to reduce size and speed to accomplish flight, but... well, it's an experiment. 2) Why the pea-shooters? First of all, they're not pea-shooters. They're quite nice against infantry and light/medium armoured vehicles, and most airborne targets, and against heavily armoured targets, you have rockets. Actually, never mind the rockets, make it missiles. The point, of course, is to make this a very, very light walker. Which is why I'm not arming it with two 2-ton 105 mm cannons. I want this thing to fly. If we realise that that it can take on more armament later, without losing flight, then we increase armament. Make sense? 3) Armoured against what... Everything. Both anti-ballistic and anti-laser armour. I don't know what the terms are... reflective and... something. They're not meant to wade through tank columns though. They're scouting units, useable to break through lightly held enemy positions (infantry, light vehicles) and possibly be used as fire support in large battles.
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