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Post by Destecado on Dec 10, 2004 11:47:30 GMT -5
I was recently reading through the Chapter Approved articles on the games workshop website when I came across the newest version of 40k in 40 minutes in the form of the Kill Team suppliment.
Looking through this, it occured to me that this may be a bridge between the role playing aspect of 40k and the wargame. Why is this necessary you may ask.
Many of you may not be familiar with it, but there was once a great wargame by FASA called Battletech. This was a game that allowed you to be the pilot of a Battlemech and take it into combat against other mechs or tanks. for its tim, it was a great game.
FASA also put out a RPG version of the game set in the Battletech universe called Mechwarrior. This detailed the exploits of the Mechwarriors (Battlemech) pilots when they were not in their battlemechs. It also allowed players to generate a host of other types of characters.
The best part was that the two systems could be integrated. Players could have runing gun battles which were normally handeled in the normal story teller fashion of most RPGs. When it came down to mech combat though, you could opt to break out the maps and miniatures of the wargame and slug it out in your mechs.
It brought the map and miniatures used in such games as Dungeons and Dragons to simulate combat to the next level. We might be able to do something similar with the rules for Kill Teams, to bring this added level to the RPG game.
The nice thing about kill team is that the number of minatures and the table space (4X4) needed is greatly reduced from that of the wargame. It may help to bring an added level of realism to the RPG.
Of course this would not be useable in all situations, but if the PCs are playing a mercenary unit or a military unit that is part of a larger campaign, the added visuals provided by the miniatures may enhance the playing experience.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 10, 2004 17:12:42 GMT -5
Hmmn... I'd forgotten about that system, but just wondering what the ultimate goal of this thread was? Just by means of information, i.e. it is possible to have RPG that utilises miniatures and wargames that are solely pen-and-paper? Or are you suggesting (unlikely) that it offers a more ideal system...?
Or something else...?
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Post by Destecado on Dec 11, 2004 11:29:59 GMT -5
Hmmn... I'd forgotten about that system, but just wondering what the ultimate goal of this thread was? Just by means of information, i.e. it is possible to have RPG that utilises miniatures and wargames that are solely pen-and-paper? Or are you suggesting (unlikely) that it offers a more ideal system...? Or something else...? call it 40k trainng wheels. It is not a more ideal system, but a seqway system....a way to ease people into the RPG aspect of 40k. 40k appeals to many because of its simplistic nature and ease of playability. Of course some people are turned off by this simplicity and go seeking something more complex. There is also that segment of individuals who just don't know anything different. They have not been exposed to an RPG aspect and feel intimidated learning a completely new system. This allows them to still use the aspect of the wargame which they enjoy while exploring other facets of interaction...to actually become the piece that you are moving around on the board. One thing that I have always loved about RPGs (at least well GMed RPGs) is that they teach social interaction and problem solving. By having this segway or (RPG lite) it teaches new gamers the necessary skills of working together and problem solving, while doing it in a context (the wargame) which they understand. In my gaming group, several of the members have children around the ages of 12 and 13, who they wish to join the group. The first couple of times this occured, were not successful. These young memebrs were only interested in going out and killing. The finer pointsof role playing were lost on them. They became frustrated when their characters died. It seems that consiquences for their actions in an RPG was a surprise to the. The way we solved this was to play a more basic game with them on a day different than our normal gaming night and teach them the ropes of role playing. They eventually were able to intergrate into the main group and now are successful (...well moderately successful. Age and Treacher still win out over youthful exuberance) role players. My idea was that a simplified RPG game the was a synthesis of the RPG and wargame might help others cross over to the full RPG or provide an interesting diversion for RPGers who wanted to try something a little different.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 11, 2004 11:49:16 GMT -5
All I can ask is what, specifically, you are suggesting for application to the ASP...?
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Post by Destecado on Dec 11, 2004 12:06:02 GMT -5
All I can ask is what, specifically, you are suggesting for application to the ASP...? That's a little more trickey. What I was thinking of using for a system was shadowrun. It uses a D6 and is a pretty simplistic gaming system for people to pick up (actually does Gurps use D6...I don't even know). This would allow them to use the same dice that they do for the wargame. Beyond that, I am still attempting to formulate a cohesive idea. This thread was mostly to open it up to a brain storming session and to gague the feeling of other memebrs towards the concept.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 11, 2004 21:49:06 GMT -5
What I was thinking of using for a system was shadowrun. It uses a D6 and is a pretty simplistic gaming system for people to pick up (actually does Gurps use D6...I don't even know)... It is simple for f2f RPG and quite involving, both in terms of the setting but also the combat system. For online gaming, it necessitates a turn-by-turn sequence which can be overtly complex. Then again the same can be said for any RPG system which is more detailed than, say, the Storyteller system. Then again, that system has always been a tad on the 'grainy' side for my tastes... But then again, perhaps that grainy system is what it needs? After all 40k is horrendously grainy. Hang on, though. As you know I use GURPS, which also tends to have a complex system. For online RPG, however, I always tend to use an 'overlay' of the FUDGE system, preferring the semi-quantitative nature. You then always have the 'detail' to come back to when needed and - this is just for me - any level of conflict resolution. Oops... As I continued to read through this I realised that you're talking about f2f. Even then I would still advocate using a FUDGE overlay as a means of introducing the whole spectrum of activity. But that's just me. This would allow them to use the same dice that they do for the wargame. You're only problem is the difference in the number of dice with the Shadowrun system...
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Post by schoon on Jan 29, 2005 1:02:06 GMT -5
The last few White Dwarf Mags have had Kill Team material that is very story oriented. I agree with Destecado that this is a good thing for the 40K to RPG crossover market.
Does this have any bearing at all on the ASP? Errrrr, no.
...but as I've been wishing for a 40K-RPG for a long time, I can't help but think of it as a generally good thing.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 31, 2005 0:09:16 GMT -5
We've all been wanting a 40k RPG. I've been wanted one for the past 15 years. But Inquisitor was poor beyond dreaming, and WFRP is only marginally better...
They need to produce something original and, for once, good! That also means they're going to have to break away from their paradigm.
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