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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 1, 2004 10:37:16 GMT -5
This will be edited later, but I shall post a racial template for eldar - using GURPS - that I will be using in the project. Comments welcome, as always. Kage
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Post by v0lsung on Mar 18, 2004 13:47:26 GMT -5
So would a Craftworld Eldar PC normally be a Ranger of some sort? Rangers seem to be (IIRC) the class/profession of Eldar that are most often seen away from the herd, so to speak.
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 18, 2004 18:52:04 GMT -5
Darn... I'd obviously forgotten about this thread, but rather serendipitous given the fact that I've started the new 'private' forum. The 'racial template' that I'm talking about will deal with all eldar racial types, but more specifically with the craftworld eldar race... I really should get to posting it asap but I've also changed from (and away and then back to) the psionic model of the eldar. Back shortly! Kage
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 19, 2004 10:18:14 GMT -5
I said I would post this and since the baisc premises for the "Eldar Sourcebook" is currently being discussed before subsequently opening it up... well, it's come back to mind! Anyway, in GURPS terms the eldar species template would be: STATISTICS [40 points] ST-1 [-10] DX+3 [30] IQ+2 [20] ADVANTAGES [120 points] Alertness +2 [10] Attractive [5] Increase Speed +2 [50] Less Sleep +5 [15] Night Vision [10] Perfect Balance [15] Unaging [15] Psionics [15 points] Telepathy 2 [10] Psychokinesis 1 [5] DISADVANTAGES [-45 points] Dying Race [-10] Enemy (Slaanesh) [-20] Intolerance ('breeders' or mon'keigh) [-10] Unnatural Feature ('graceful movement') [-5] Total Points Cost: 130. Some of the various advantages and disadantages might be 'bought off' with subsequent racial template, but for the most part that seems to be the core of the eldar... For the craftworld eldar, the focus of the "Eldar Sourcebook" at present the following racial template would be used. ADVANTAGES [0 points] Panimmunity 1 [0] DISADVANTAGES [-56 points] Attentive [-1] Compartmentalised Mind 1 [-20] Dependency (Waystone) [0] Intolerance (Dark Eldar) [-10] Phobia (Death w/o Waystone) [-5] Sense of Duty (craftworld; eldar) [-10] Split Personality 2 ( n'at amin)[-10] RACIAL SKILLS [2 points] History [eldar] (M/H) IQ-1 [1] Savoir-Faire [eldar] (M/A) IQ-1 [1] Total Points Cost: -54 points. New Advantages/Disadvantages[/i] 1 This is different from the advantage mention in CI 52, rather representing the operation of the Eldar Path and the n'at amin (see below). As described below, all non-Path or non-Way skills with the exception of Racial Skills are kept 'behind' the Compartmentalised Mind and may only be accessed in special situations. 2 The eldar as a race do not truly suffer from disassociative personality disorders, but rather this advantage is used to represent the cultural repression of undesired characteristics by the the eldar of the craftworlds. In periods of stress which would otherwise lead to a significant emotional reaction, eldar must make a Will roll. Failure indicates the eldar’s repressed personality traits coming to the fore. This is represented by the adoption of the following disadvantages: Bad Temper, Bloodlyst, Callous, Edgy, Overconfidence and Self-Centred. While an eldar is in this state they are unable to utilise any psyker abilities (either psionics or magic) and suffer a -1 IQ with concomittant effects on all mental skills. Well, it's a working basis for discussion! Kage
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Post by zholud on Mar 20, 2004 6:25:28 GMT -5
Here comes the list of general ideas, discussed earlier with Kage, but unseen yet by others. - Innate psychic abilities. I strongly suggest the widening of list for both common and special traits for Eldar. Among the common is work with warp-material and ‘seeds’ of bone-singing. Some kind of symbiotic relation with warp-based material, maybe on the level humans interact with their bacteria in digestive tract, maybe more ‘conscious’. Maybe split of emotion-reading and mind-reading. Also innate talents table is welcome, so that future bone-singer specialists had additional traits, like rune-warding of warp-material from daemon intrusion. My guess is that if Eldar are Psychic Race as GW states, we have to develop both warp-physics and warp abilities.
- The damned race. I think there should be set up mechanism akin to Sanity in Call of Cthulhu where each emotional burst draws person closer to Slaanesh. Then there is a choice – to let this emotion to be transferred to others somehow and go the Dark Eldar way, or just collect it inside and one day be consumed, when emotional number (working name) gets closer to mind will number (you roll against the difference).
- Extreme specialisation. The Path Eldar has to become very unbalanced as they sacrifice part of themselves moving through the path, with possibility to fully solute in it. maybe even complete loss of some traits attributed to base Eldar.
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 20, 2004 13:35:45 GMT -5
I strongly suggest the widening of list for both common and special traits for Eldar. Among the common is work with warp-material and ‘seeds’ of bone-singing. Psychomorphism. Incredibly easy to replicate with magic, harder with psionics. Best way of doing this is through Psychokinesis... hence the reason that they have that as well as the statement that it is also used. Creating a new power to explain something which is explainable through other means is a common flaw with GW and the reason that I wasn't going to do it for the eldar. That and I didn't want to give the eldar 'magical' abilities from the get-go. Some kind of symbiotic relation with warp-based material, maybe on the level humans interact with their bacteria in digestive tract, maybe more ‘conscious’. The nature of wraithbone is ultimately up for grabs. The 'conjured material' of the original 'fluff' is tenuous, and I prefer something that enjoys both a mundane and esoteric relationship which also gives the eldar some material requirements. The over-focussing on the 'magic' of the eldar is something that I've always considered to be a fatal flaw with many peoples' interpretation. Maybe split of emotion-reading and mind-reading. Telepathy includes a number of sub-powers, including this type of thing. The broad-ranging power represent generic ability, but one that is undisciplined; untrained. More subconscious than conscious. Also innate talents table is welcome, so that future bone-singer specialists had additional traits, like rune-warding of warp-material from daemon intrusion. This is falling down the White Wolf, Rolemaster and WFRP side of things. I'm violently opposed to this... development of additional abilities is possible with training (and by freak accident), but there are no real 'birth magical abilities' which the ones mentioned above are almost definitely. With that said, standard character generation allows for an individual to acquire additional abilities (psionics and, arguably, magic; cf. 'magical knacks' in the latter case). But they are not present in all member sof the race, which is what the 'racial template' is meant to replicate. My guess is that if Eldar are Psychic Race as GW states, we have to develop both warp-physics and warp abilities. The integration in terms of RPG of psionics, magic and 'divine magic' are very much something that is up for grabs. In reference to the eldar, however, psionics might be thought of as 'low' or 'common' magic, while true magic and the handling of large quantities of 'warp energy' might be thought of as 'high magic'. I think there should be set up mechanism akin to Sanity in Call of Cthulhu where each emotional burst draws person closer to Slaanesh. This is a good idea in principle, but emotions do not damn you. Furthermore, it would only really be a problem in the 'outer universe' away from the myriad protections of the craftworld... That and I think that Call of Cthulu is one of the most tedious games that I've ever had the misfortune of playiing... But that's just me, so let's not go too far with that aside. Then there is a choice – to let this emotion to be transferred to others somehow and go the Dark Eldar way, or just collect it inside and one day be consumed... Dark Eldar do not control their emotions, true. That is what defines them, in many regards. Well, along with the other rather sanguine things as well. But their protection is, for the most part, manifested through the Webway and, potentially, other reasons (pseudo-soul sacrifice) depending on how you interpret them. But when a Dark Eldar goes out into the 'mortal realm' they do not suddenly get snacked on by Slaanesh... The Path Eldar has to become very unbalanced as they sacrifice part of themselves moving through the path, with possibility to fully solute in it. maybe even complete loss of some traits attributed to base Eldar. That Path is not covered in the above. Broadly speaking, however, the Path defines a specific suit of advantages and disadvantages as well as 'Path skills', related skills and non-related skills. Any character skills which are present in the non-related list are, in essence, unavailable; lost to the eldar in question until they change Path or Way. Related skills are accessible, but may not be changed. Path skills are both accessible and can be developed... The working principle from transition to 'Paramount Practitioner' status is the complete loss of non-related (tertiary) skills and freeing up of points for esoteric (including magical) skills and/or advantages/disadvantages. The specifics are, of course, being worked upon... Thank you for your comments, zholud. I don't think that there is anything damning or which is not already covered in the template(s) other than your Call of Cthulu preferences for 'damnation'... Kage
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 6, 2004 6:47:04 GMT -5
A basic modification removing the psionics, which are currently deemed as not the best means of replicating the 40k psyker abilities. (I'm also both horrified and expectant of Phillip's comments... especially since there are no backward legs! ) STATISTICS [40 points] ST-1 [-10] DX+3 [30] IQ+2 [20] Designers Note: This falls into the typical imagery of the "space elf", something that some might consider unfortunate. It is, however, the basis of the eldar...
Are they agile enough? Intelligent enough? All compared to human standard, of course.ADVANTAGES [120 points] Alertness +2 [10] Attractive [5] Increase Speed +2 [50] Less Sleep +5 [15] Night Vision [10] Perfect Balance [15] Psyker Aptitude +1 (Delta 1) [15] Unaging [15] 1 All eldar are psychic. This is the minimum level. Players may feel free to increase this as well as include innate abilities ("Knacks") such as Precognition (e.g. Divination forms), but note that only those that follow the Path of the Seer Designers Note: Three things of potential 'discussion' here. The "Unaging" advantage is there merely because to get an "Increased Lifespan" requires a horrendous amount of points. For game purposes they are essentially unaging. This also allows lattitude for those people who believe, for some reason, that all eldar live to the ages of Vect or Ulthran.
"Less Sleep" derives purely from the "Dreaming" of 'ole [D&D and WFRP days. It is also there to increase the 'day' of the eldar from the standard day (~24 hours) that, for some reason, everyone seems to work from.
Finally the "Increase Speed" just makes the eldar move faster than other races. They have the 'initiative', as it were.
Are there any others that I've missed?Psyker Abilities [8 points] Telepathy (Telepathy, M/VH IQ-1) [4] Psychokinesis (Telekinesis, Apportation, M/H, IQ-1) [2] Psychokinesis (Psychomorphism, Reshape, M/H, IQ-1) [2] Designer's Note: Only three psychic abilities are attributed to the eldar: (1) the ability to speak mind to mind (telepathy); (2) the ability to move objects with their mind, which they use to construct their 'finest' technologies (psychokinesis/telekinesis); and (3) psychomorphism, the ability to influence the shape of matter with the power of their minds. The third one is the hardest to replicate since many believe that it is aspected to a specific 'thing', i.e. wraithbone or biological material. This is not stated in the 'fluff', however, so the more generic shaping of inanimate matter was included, perhaps erroneously. DISADVANTAGES [-45 points] Dying Race [-10] Enemy (Slaanesh) [-20] Intolerance ('breeders' or mon'keigh) [-10] Unnatural Feature ('graceful movement') [-5] Total Points Cost: 123. Some of the various advantages and disadantages might be 'bought off' with subsequent racial template, but for the most part that seems to be the core of the eldar... For the craftworld eldar, the focus of the "Eldar Sourcebook" at present the following racial template would be used. ADVANTAGES [0 points] Panimmunity 1 [0] DISADVANTAGES [-56 points] Attentive [-1] Compartmentalised Mind 1 [-20] Dependency (Waystone) [0] Intolerance (Dark Eldar) [-10] Phobia (Death w/o Waystone) [-5] Sense of Duty (craftworld; eldar) [-10] Split Personality 2 ( n'at amin)[-10] RACIAL SKILLS [2 points] History [eldar] (M/H) IQ-1 [1] Savoir-Faire [eldar] (M/A) IQ-1 [1] Total Points Cost: -54 points. New Advantages/Disadvantages[/i] 1 This is different from the advantage mention in CI 52, rather representing the operation of the Eldar Path and the n'at amin (see below). As described below, all non-Path or non-Way skills with the exception of Racial Skills are kept 'behind' the Compartmentalised Mind and may only be accessed in special situations. 2 The eldar as a race do not truly suffer from disassociative personality disorders, but rather this advantage is used to represent the cultural repression of undesired characteristics by the the eldar of the craftworlds. In periods of stress which would otherwise lead to a significant emotional reaction, eldar must make a Will roll. Failure indicates the eldar’s repressed personality traits coming to the fore. This is represented by the adoption of the following disadvantages: Bad Temper, Bloodlyst, Callous, Edgy, Overconfidence and Self-Centred. While an eldar is in this state they are unable to utilise any psyker abilities (either psionics or magic) and suffer a -1 IQ with concomittant effects on all mental skills. Well, it's a working basis for discussion! Kage
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Post by CELS on Oct 10, 2004 9:17:34 GMT -5
Why is it so unfortunate to purchase Increased Lifespan for a horrendous amount of points? And why is it more expensive than Unaging? Is this a flaw of the system?
I don't know about Eldar, but elves at least are... well, I forget the english word for it... they have equal motoric accuracy and dexterity with both hands. They are not normally right-handed, but... something dextrous? Argh.. I can't remember the word.
Are Eldar really considered attractive compared to humans? In our point of view, yes, but in the view of an Imperial citizen? The most puritan would be repulsed by their alien features; their long limbs and fingers, elongated faces and pointy ears. No?
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 10, 2004 19:02:34 GMT -5
Why is it so unfortunate to purchase Increased Lifespan for a horrendous amount of points? And why is it more expensive than Unaging? Is this a flaw of the system? Playability. But that is the point.. the eldar are more unplayable than the humans... ... they have equal motoric accuracy and dexterity with both hands. They are not normally right-handed, but... something dextrous? Ambidextrous! Are Eldar really considered attractive compared to humans? Always a weird point, but yes.
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Post by Minister on Jan 7, 2005 20:46:44 GMT -5
IIRC, which is a long shot, attractivness as a trait only applies a modifier within your own race. Therefore, whatever the average may be, the template should not have any points spent on it (being, by definition, average for their race).
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 7, 2005 21:39:39 GMT -5
That's a common thing to argue against, and in may ways I agree. However, the 'attractiveness' thing is one of those items that is common in the representation of 'elves' and similar races. Seems that the game mechanics are humanocentric, i.e. what 'humans' consider attractive... <sigh>
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Post by schoon on Jan 29, 2005 1:47:20 GMT -5
Hmmmm. My suggestions for consideration:
I think the statistic mods are either "on" or slightly high, but that's just a matter of taste.
I'm not sure I agree with the Less Sleep or Night Vision, just because I can't remember it being referenced anywhere, and I personally find the "Elf in space" concept to be a bit hackneyed.
As for the Psycher abilities, I think the only one that I've seen referenced for all Eldar is the Telepathy, with anything over that relegated to Warlocks and Seers. Thus I wouldn't put it in the general racial template.
I disagree with the Compartmentalised Mind and Split Personality choices. Whereas what I've read does imply that they leave previous paths behind, I don't see them leaving all the skills and experiences behind, and IIRC some of the novels support that idea, fluff-wise.
FWIW
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 31, 2005 0:22:01 GMT -5
I think the statistic mods are either "on" or slightly high, but that's just a matter of taste. I would tend to agree. But it was based at the time on common perception of 40k characters... I'm not sure I agree with the Less Sleep or Night Vision, just because I can't remember it being referenced anywhere, and I personally find the "Elf in space" concept to be a bit hackneyed. It might be, it might be... But the Dreaming is a good way around the superficial 'fluff' on eldar psyche and the Night Vision is, well, arguably appropriate given the arboreal preference and possible habitual preference. As for the Psycher abilities, I think the only one that I've seen referenced for all Eldar is the Telepathy, with anything over that relegated to Warlocks and Seers. Thus I wouldn't put it in the general racial template. All eldar share three abilities: Telepathy, Psychokinesis and Psychomorphism. This is the 'fluff' despite the fact that most people tend to forget it. I don't see them leaving all the skills and experiences behind, and IIRC some of the novels support that idea, fluff-wise. The joys of consistent interpretation. They do not leave the skills behind but can recall them at a 'cost'. The problem here is that any - any - eldar would otherwise be more than a match in every regard to almost all of the races. Moderation is the key, as much as possible and within 'fluff' reason.
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