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Post by CELS on Jan 2, 2004 13:20:26 GMT -5
The orks have undergone quite a few changes from the jolly, crazy, hillarious evil clowns we knew in 2nd edition to the darker, simple-minded killers in 3rd edition. Personally, I've long thought that GW isn't seeing the orks' full potential. People used to complain that the orks were too comical and not dark enough for such a grim setting as 40k, resulting in the diluted grunts we know now.
I think we should really use artwork and fiction to create a much more balanced image of the Ork, and try to really make them believable and scary, while still retaining the much needed humour that makes them so lovable. I'd also like to see the return of such abandoned concepts as the clans (which are supposedly coming back for 4th edition).
So how would we accomplish this? Mostly through artwork and fiction, I suppose, but perhaps in writing the background for the ork enemy in the Anargo sector as well. Instead of just having orks swarming to the nearest Imperial settlement, cheering 'Ere we go, 'ere we go (though that is an important part of ork culture, I admit), we could try to show some of the sly, animal cunning that continues to surprise the humans from time to time. Let's not forget, the orks do have some bright ideas from time to time, as well as capable tacticians, so it would be a shame to write a history of Anargo that showed ork superiority only in brute force.
Of course, the Imperials obviously underestimate the orks, but that doesn't mean we should do the same!
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Post by malika on Jan 2, 2004 13:27:56 GMT -5
I dont really like GW Orks...they remind me too much of drunk english people in a pub (no offence) I prefere the orks from warcraft more..but then again thats a fantasy world, and this is sci fi (to a certain extend)...clans are cool..but I would make them way darker and meaner
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Post by CELS on Jan 2, 2004 13:57:42 GMT -5
Yes.... well, I'm glad that we agree on some of what I was trying to say, at least I don't want to steer completely away from the comical aspect of the orks though, because let's face it - 40k does need some humour and stuff such as shokk attack guns and 'red wuns go fasta' are an important part of the 40k heritage. So do you have any concrete suggestions, Malika?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 2, 2004 14:15:47 GMT -5
I'm intrigued by the idea, CELS. I've always felt that GW have not made that much of the orks and it is the single reason why they are my most unfavoured race. At least in 2E they were fun. Now in 3E they are just boring plants... Any suggestions of making the orks an integral and interesting part of the Anargo sector would be more than welcome. Kage
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Post by zholud on Jan 3, 2004 5:55:09 GMT -5
Colleagues, right now I try to connect with one Ork player who is interested in fluff in order to invite him into project. Most likely he will be unable to make planet, but his input could be very valuable.
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Post by malika on Jan 3, 2004 7:16:11 GMT -5
Well back in the day khorne was the god of war, in a way..uhm it wasnt just dumb bloodshed, honour and pride were important too, but now in the 3rd edition he kinda turned into a brainless maniac, killing at random, not really pride and all that...I imagine Orks more like that, not too bright killing machines that will butcher anything in their path.
And then have one in every few million orks to be smart..well kinda...like Ghazkul (sp?)
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Post by Minister on Jan 3, 2004 12:51:28 GMT -5
I've not got any major world-shaking ideas on my first army, but I'm still a dedicated follower of greenskins and will have an opinion on anything written for them.
Not always a useful one, but an opinion none the less.
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Post by CELS on Jan 3, 2004 19:00:55 GMT -5
The important thing is that everyone who will touch through background, artwork or fiction, agree on a general theme that we set for them. An imagery, if you will.
Personally, I would want to disapprove any work that does the same mistake with orks as GW did, so I propose that we set some sort of guidelines for the ideal representation of orks.
Of course, at the moment I don't know how much such guidelines are needed, if at all. Perhaps I shall let the subject sleep for a while and see what happens.
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Post by Minister on Jan 4, 2004 18:09:41 GMT -5
Opinions: 1. The Orks are not patheticaly stupid. They have a straightforward way of looking at things, disslike over-complicating the issue and prefer brute force, but that's not the same thing as stupidity. 2. The Orks do, in fact, have the ability to manufacture things. True, their work practices are more industrial revolution than 21st century, but it does exist. 3. A little comedy is apropriate, but the Orks are not the comedic fools of 40K. 4. Whilst the Orks like a good bit of violence in their lives, they do often settle down on a world, where they will limit themselves to low-level violence untill provoked by something or untill a good oportunity presents itself.
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Post by malika on Jan 4, 2004 18:20:02 GMT -5
hmm...I still prefere to have then like bezerker spread and kill everything, and settle, and build more killing stuff (weapons/war machines) and then move on and kill more
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 5, 2004 9:10:47 GMT -5
1. The Orks are not patheticaly stupid. They have a straightforward way of looking at things, disslike over-complicating the issue and prefer brute force, but that's not the same thing as stupidity. It seems that we can draw much imagery from the various 'hordes' that have cropped up in history, whether Mongol or otherwise... Give them a bit more of a cultural structure than the approach currently advocated. Again, we don't get rid of the 'fluff' on them, just add to it and refine it. What we feel are 'mistakes' can be smoothed over as misrepresentation. It truly is amazing what this approach can achieve. The Orks do, in fact, have the ability to manufacture things. True, their work practices are more industrial revolution than 21st century, but it does exist. This will therefore be represented in the 'wily ork empire'. They'll need an industrial infrastructure which, whle not necessarily disassociated from a slave-biased industry, still makes it clear that the orks are creating technologies of their own innovation. We should also be clear at what rough 'tech-level' they are capable of production. If they can produce 'bolters' for example, we should ensure that this has clear manifestation to other aspects of their techno-culture. While the Mekboy 'gadgeteering' approach can be amusing, it should not be over-used. Artefacts thus created should be rare and not generally found in the 'army lists'. A little comedy is apropriate, but the Orks are not the comedic fools of 40K. Fair enough. Nor should they be constantly referred to as 'cunning' to replace any form of wit. Over-emphasising their charming method of speech ties into this... Whilst the Orks like a good bit of violence in their lives, they do often settle down on a world, where they will limit themselves to low-level violence untill provoked by something or untill a good oportunity presents itself. Non-war culture is something that needs significant work... But some good points there, Minister. I agree with them anyway. Kage
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Post by Minister on Jan 5, 2004 17:37:48 GMT -5
For an Ork society not at war I am reminded of GorkaMorka once more. There was, of course, much fighting, but within the bounds of the only city (also named GorkaMorka) it was limited to ritualised Pit Fights and bar room brawling for the most part. Those seeking a life of adventure did their badlands thing, roaming the desert and thwacking like-minded individuals for personal gain and honour.
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Post by malika on Jan 5, 2004 17:51:50 GMT -5
drink fungi beer, beat each other up, eat a grot, travel around to find some new shiny shooty and choppy stuff...then get back, have some more fungi beer, try to beat up a bigger ork, than eat another grot and grab the shoota u found and blast the bigga ork
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 9, 2004 8:18:03 GMT -5
Is there any information on what else happened in that city? Kage
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Post by malika on Jan 9, 2004 12:47:33 GMT -5
hmm try to get the gorka morka rule book, there is loads in there...basicly the big city was kinda neutral ground, the orks traded there, kinda did their thing, and outside the city they fouht and skavanged stuff
the city was built with the remains of an ork hulk, it crashed on angelis (not sure on that)
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