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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 11, 2004 11:44:07 GMT -5
This is really in-depth, Kage, you've done a fantastic job. <grin> And it only scratches the surface of what the final "Eldar Sourcebook" would be! <sigh> I'd have to read it again a few times to get it all, but I do have a few questions as related to the Ancestor Council... This may indicate that there are some aspects of the description that require further consideration and, perhaps, the addition of material. Or maybe not. Regardless, questions are a good thing! I'm assuming all Eldar join the Infinity Circuit when they die, if the spiritstone is recovered. Broadly speaking, yes. You said that only a small portion of the "spirits" in the Circuit still interact with the living Eldar. Yes, that is true. Only those that feel a bond to the material realm interact with the 'lower levels' of the Inifnity Circuit and the Eternal Matrix. Those that feel no such bond become 'one' with the craftworld, an undifferentiated gestalt consciousness derived from many individual spirits. Does the Ancestor Council have any sort of seniority ranking, i.e. those who entered the Circuit longer ago carry more respect for their suggestions? Yep, that and personal responsibility and a 'bond' to the material realm. Also, is the number of ancestors in the Council fixed, so that new voices are added only when old ones leave, or is it open? That's a good point and not something that I've put too much thought into. I personally envisage the number of Ancestors to be fixed, with 'new voices' being added only when a position opens up. I'd also like to propose the Atlanteans as a potential "trading" partner in the future, via their Anargo colony... Perhaps. I would have to familiarise myself with the Atlanteans again to see whether they are 'worthy' as trading partners. and I have no idea what the Eldar would want/need from them, and vice versa). <grin> That's the trouble. Generally speaking the eldar don't really want for that much... I'm sure that it would be fairly easy for the Atlanteans to be used by the eldar for something, though!
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Post by Dazo on Dec 11, 2004 13:03:25 GMT -5
You mention the moons very breifly, I was wondering if we could get a little more info on them, you say two of them were shaped, why, what significane do the moons hold for the people of the colony, they went to alot of effort so there must be something you could say on them. Also what colours are the moons, you mentioned somewhere you considered artificially modifing the colour of them, did you?
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 11, 2004 21:58:55 GMT -5
There are some things that I have not taken the time to explain in this SR. One of them is the significance of the three moons, which merely refers to the original eldar homeworld around which orbited three moons. One of them was red, one of them was white and one of the was green...
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Post by TheGlyphstone on Dec 12, 2004 5:39:36 GMT -5
Perhaps. I would have to familiarise myself with the Atlanteans again to see whether they are 'worthy' as trading partners. Don't get too familiar with them now ,They're about to undergo a major cultural/psychological revision, which I'm sure is the important part. This could be quite amusing, considering the Atlanteans would,at the same time, be attempting to use the Eldar the same way......
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 12, 2004 12:09:48 GMT -5
Fair enough with regards to familiarisation with the Atlanteans. And 'not a chance' with the manipulation of the eldar! Hmmn... so no real meaty comments. Fairy snuff.
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Post by Sikkukkut on Dec 12, 2004 22:38:25 GMT -5
One of them is the significance of the three moons, which merely refers to the original eldar homeworld around which orbited three moons. One of them was red, one of them was white and one of the was green... Although from my readings of it the three moons, and their associated colours, mythical meanings and deities, had considerable spiritual and religious significance for the Eldar. It makes sense to me that they'd try to recreate those in a new settlement.
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Post by CELS on Dec 13, 2004 2:43:45 GMT -5
Note: I happened to press 'modify' instead of 'quote' on one of your posts, Kage, so it is now gone. Hopefully, people will still be able to keep up... My sincere apologies. The standard 'get out clause' for this is that you wouldn't understanding since you are, after all, only human. A more reasoned answer can be found in the concept of Personal Responsibility that in the terms that you're after is also represented in the Guardians. Put simply, all eldar are the police force and are involved in personal monitoring and the perpetuation of eldar 'law'. How do they perpetuate law? By the perpetuation of their society. Sounds a bit like anarchy, doesn't it? All Eldar are the police, judge and jury. Though Eldar nature is obviously quite different from humans and other "mon'keigh", I still think this sounds dangerous. Same as the Chy'var, I think, and I still find this literally incredible. Though the ancient Eldar may have the wisdom to realise that they should not wish for more artefacts than they really need, there might be immature and unwise Eldar who seek the simple and luxurious path and become greedy like humans. I generally have a problem with utopia, it seems. What do you mean by that? That's not the impression I have from Eldar fiction, but I can't really think of any examples to prove you wrong Well, why do the Eldar have such an extreme sense of personal responsibility that is simply beyond humans to achieve? Why do humans commit crimes while Eldar do not? I must have missed something here, so forgive me for asking what is maybe a question with an obvious answer. Is it simply because they are an older race? Is that all? Martial ability, the quality of their equipment, vehicles and so on. Basically everything you find boring I don't think so, but there you go
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 13, 2004 6:50:37 GMT -5
Note: I happened to press 'modify' instead of 'quote' on one of your posts, Kage, so it is now gone. Hopefully, people will still be able to keep up... My sincere apologies. You accidentally modified one of my posts and then deleted the post (i.e. modifications and original post)? Or you deleted your accidental modifications? Sounds a bit like anarchy, doesn't it? All Eldar are the police, judge and jury. That makes it sound overly dramatic, do you not think? It is merely a caricature of most societies, i.e. the tendency to self moderate. In other words, as they say: Locks are for honest people. Quite simply those eldar that wish to cause 'trouble' - the 'anarchic' element if you will - are those individuals that also tend to remove themselves from that society, i.e. they are the Outcasts. For the other eldar, socialisation tends to be extreme, moderated by psychic means in childhood and, potentially, beyond. The engendered sense of 'personal responsibility' to the race and the craftworld work to create a situation whereby it would be extremely rare for an individual to 'break the law'. After all, the main reasons for an individual 'turning to crime' are excluded from the craftworld eldar. If an individual turns to crime it becomes the responsibility of all eldar to prevent it, though this does not translate to a lynching mob. Same as the Chy'var, I think... No idea, since I've only just been sent the synopsis for that race. ...there might be immature and unwise Eldar who seek the simple and luxurious path and become greedy like humans. I think you're missing the point. If an eldar wishes to accrue goods then they can. If they wish to sleep on a mountain of jewels then they can. The technology of the eldar is such that they can produce any good and if an individual wishes to acquire mineral wealth then all they have to do is go out and acquire it. The means that they do this is irrelevant, even if it includes 'rape and pillage' of inconsequential creatures (read: humans, for example). Of course, that might fall into poor socialisation once again... That and the Path has a significant impact upon the craftworld eldar, both as a race and an individual. I generally have a problem with utopia, it seems. The desire to acquire personal wealth and/or goods is indicative of the lack of utopia? What do you mean by that? See the above. Eldar technology allows the production of goods without any real 'cost', so the desire to acquire 'goods' isn't the same as with humans. If there was a 'store' of gold in the craftworld and an eldar wished to move it into their 'bedroom' and sleep on it, then people wouldn't care. There is no significance attached to the gold itself beyond what it can do... That's not the impression I have from Eldar fiction, but I can't really think of any examples to prove you wrong "You blaspheme against Asuryan, heretic!" "He ain't listen'! He's dead!" "Ah. Oh, well you've got a point." Very hard to blaspheme against that which is dead. Though that in itself is somewhat against the point. Perhaps it would be best to ask how an eldar would actually blaspheme? Well, why do the Eldar have such an extreme sense of personal responsibility that is simply beyond humans to achieve? Hmmn, I forget to include eldar upbringing. Ah well. All eldar are raised by 'professionals' and throughout their youth monitored by both Seers and Ancestors. They are not raised by political or ideological sections of society (i.e. Clan) or biological parents (the concept of the nuclear family is not really significant), etc. In many ways it is similar to the concept of the 'Guardian' of Plato except applied to all eldar. Why do humans commit crimes while Eldar do not? Now that's getting into psychology and sociology. One can offer a number of possibilities, from the desire to acquire to psychological malformation and so on... Is it simply because they are an older race? Is that all? I doubt it. Martial ability, the quality of their equipment, vehicles and so on. Basically everything you find boring You want me to describe every single variation of every single vehicle, the specific training regimen of the Guardians and a blow-by-blow account of the relative quality of each and every Aspect Warrior? Or would you, like is done throughout the board, merely assume that while there might be individual variation on average a Guardian is roughly the same quality as a Guardian from elsewhere. That a Vyper, or whatever, is roughly the same quality as elsewhere...?
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Post by CELS on Dec 13, 2004 7:48:09 GMT -5
You accidentally modified one of my posts and then deleted the post (i.e. modifications and original post)? Or you deleted your accidental modifications? Heh. I accidentally modified you posts instead of quoting it. Then I removed the text from my modification, replaced it with a small note, and posted it in my last reply If you still don't understand, just nod. It doesn't really matter I'm not saying that there is a lack of utopia. I just don't understand how someone can achieve utopia when there is so much room for error in their 'system'. Are all the Eldar gods dead? Whoa... I didn't realise ;D See why I prefer to keep my mouth shut? Put like that, it now makes sense to me. I definitely recommend that you explain how much resources is put into the upbringing of a young Eldar. If you want to draw parallels and put it in terms that 40k'ers would understand, you could say that Eldar are as devoted to all their children as humans are devoted to their most important and promising children, such as the aspiring Inquisitors, for example. Now that's getting into psychology and sociology. One can offer a number of possibilities, from the desire to acquire to psychological malformation and so on... No, you misunderstand me. I'm just curious as to how much resources is spent on training and equipping this PDF. Is each soldier the pinnacle of Eldar military technology? Is it possible that the PDF of Tir'asur is not equipped to the standard of a 'typical' craftworld? If this was an Imperial world, I'd want to know if the PDF is a bunch of amateurs given cheap ballistic weapons and asked to make their own armour, or if they are elite grenadiers trained and equipped to the standard of the Imperial storm troopers. Since this is an Eldar world, I'm curious if it has the exact same appearance and structure as a craftworld army. Is all Eldar military the same?
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 13, 2004 18:09:03 GMT -5
There is less margin of error than you would imagine. It all comes down to socialisation. It is also assumed that 'disagreeing' with your god is blasphemy. I've never seen the eldar as being as 'rigid' as, say, the Imperial Cult. <grin> You sometimes forget what has gone into the various posts that you've made... <sigh> As to resources? As with any eldar, they have the entire resources of the craftworld at their disposal. But in general each creche has one or more dedicated Seers and the observation of dedicated Ancestor spirits. Eldar in general, just not the parents specifically. How I would equip the eldar troops and how the wargame 'fluff' equips them is completely different. The idea that you send your most valuable troops (i.e. any of them) into battle with such ludicrous vulnerable armour is... daft. But such is the way of Thematic Armies and Wargame Balance. That would be even more ridiculous than sending the troops out in Mesh armour... But wait, they already do that! Paraphrasing of 'fluff' on Guardians required, then. Technically speaking, eldar Guardians should be at least equal to or superior than the Guard, but there we go. Yes it does. It is, after all, a colony. Thematic Army craftworlds says not... And daz0, if I rewrite the section to make it pretty I'll be doing it myself...
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