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Post by Sojourner on Nov 30, 2004 10:22:45 GMT -5
GOOD ANALOGY!!!11ON3!!1
Marines are for any mission that nobody else could survive.
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Post by Kage2020 on Nov 30, 2004 21:00:09 GMT -5
Wonderful! We all now know what Space Marines role in the 40k universe is! I'm fairly sure that there is a point to this... (Both the reply and the thread! )
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Post by CELS on Dec 1, 2004 8:04:34 GMT -5
The point of this thread, should anyone actually have missed it, was to make sure that we're on the same page about Space Marines in the Anargo sector project. Like Orks, Space Marines are often misinterpreted (in my opinion) in fluff, and therefore it is important that we agree on an interpretation on their purpose and role. We've already discussed their psyche, I believe.
So... the point? To avoid situations where authors have the Frost Bringers fight off an entire Waaagh by themselves, or where Space Marine scouts are sent to infiltrate the Ork capitol. The same point as having a discussion about Space Marine psyche, really.
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Post by Insidious Threat on Dec 6, 2004 5:40:41 GMT -5
In general I agree with all of the points to the effect that the marines have been created with the purpose of a Blitzkrieg style of warfare in mind, as all of their advanced equipment and training makes them deadly in vclose quarters, short engagements and decisive battles, but useless and hard to supply in a grinding war, where they will slowly find that their ammo is alot harder to prelenish than that of their erstwhile Imperial Guard allies. Thus they will go on missions, while the Guard claim, defend or grind positions into dust in the wake, or just before such thrusts.
The Guard are the Hammer of the Imperium, whilst the marines are the Knife slipping in and out between blows, weakening the opponent, if not killing him outright.
I bear thsi in mind when i am looking at my own Chapter, The White Regents. They have Chapter Traits to represent their ancient wisdom fro mtheir dreafnoughts, and their better weaponry access, but due to their history as a Chapter made up of two decimated chapters, which has only recently made it back to full strength, a fluid, guerilla style of warfare based around Inflitrating Scouts and Devastators is my preffered mode of attack, making sure that i overwhelm the enemy as quickly as possible with an elite cadre of warriors and weapons, rather then trying to use the resilience of my forces as an excuse to get stuck into a slugging match.
That is my opinion on the use of the marines really, but I do not know how well it tessellates with the take that Anargo has on the issue....
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 6, 2004 6:42:43 GMT -5
So... the point? To avoid situations where authors have the Frost Bringers fight off an entire Waaagh by themselves, or where Space Marine scouts are sent to infiltrate the Ork capitol. The same point as having a discussion about Space Marine psyche, really. The problem here is the the utilisation of Marines is dependent - at least canonically - on the backgroud and broadly modus operandi of the Chapter in question. What you seem to want is a realistic breakdown of their abilities, e.g. the power at which their utilise their abilities rather than specifically the means by which their abilities are employed. Both are subject to variation, though, as can be seen in the 'discussion' on Marine strength on other boards and in RPG.
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Post by Insidious Threat on Dec 6, 2004 8:44:51 GMT -5
I do think that a focus on the smaller groups of marines out there will be beneficial. (If anyone has the 2nd ed. Angles of Death codex, see the 5 Blood Angel's assault marines vs 30 heretic guard story ). I do think that the more strike force and special forces element to marines is the main reason why they are around... After all, even 1000 walking battlesuits with boltguns and irrefutable faith are going to get pwned by an entire regiment of guard if they are both in a slugging match.... marines just cannot recruit as quickly as the guard and have alot more dependency on highly effective, but high maintenance wargear to engage in protracted fights as a whole formation. On the other hand, we could talk about marine crusades, where we have several chapters combined into a fighting force against the enemies of the Emperor, as if they have to go and act as a whole army away from the support of other Imperial elements, i doubt they will be anything more than a destabilising influence... They may be the Emeperor's chosen, but they are still shock troops, not line soldiers.
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Post by RascalLeader on Dec 10, 2004 20:11:08 GMT -5
Although I stand by my previous view that the Marines, that they are basically super-heavy infantry, Its occurred to me that different chapters might have various standpoints on this. Some might be little more then special Forces, or Guerrilla fighters; but the vast majority would be Grunts. Within the chapters themselves would further be companies and units specifically created to perform different tasks. We have kill teams after all. But being a Space Marine means being flexible, if any of these groups can fully function as an army anyway when it’s needed. I agree. They would have training better then any Imperial Guard unit in existence. They have been moulded into the ultimate killing machines after all, mentally and physically. I think even if they ran out of ammo, lost their knifes and all their grenades in the field they would be able to fashion another weapon for themselves. Or just use their fists to take apart that Sqaud of Orks on the horizon
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Post by BrotherAnimosus on Dec 12, 2004 5:01:02 GMT -5
I think another good analogy would be that of medevill knights, who both were offensive and defensive. You want them where-ever the hammer stroke of the enemy falls to prevent whatever it is they are trying to do. Same for offence, hit them so hard they break right where you want them to. They are more of a "victory guarantied" force although depending on the foe not always. If you need to succeed, use marines.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 12, 2004 12:04:50 GMT -5
Although it is more than possible to have a 'killer' whose training equals that of a Marine, as long as you suspend disbelief on the Marines' own training routine.
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Post by HighInquisitor on Dec 19, 2004 9:43:33 GMT -5
One thing that I think is worth noting is the fact that the "real" Marines are much much tougher than their tabletop counterparts. While a tabletop marine would have trouble fighting through two orks, the "real thing" would mercilesly slaughter them and couple of their mates for good measure before finally collapsing in a pile of dozens of dead greenskins.
That doesn't mean that they would be suitable for being normal grunts in drawn out conflicts though. It's just something many people, including myself, seem to forget every now and then.
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