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Post by CELS on Nov 2, 2004 15:38:42 GMT -5
Sounds good to me. I'm not so sure about the Imperial Eagle being the main relic of the church though. Since christian churches usually have a holy cross, it may be appropriate for Imperial churches to have the Golden Throne, or some stylish variant of this.
Oh, and because it's probably very hard to hear a preacher who's not speaking (or preaching) in your direction, it would probably be useful to have very standard ceremonies and songs. (Especially in large cathedrals) This way, the people in the distant rows know what is being said, and can keep up eventhough they hear nothing of what the preacher is saying. The attendants might go about their business through the entire ceremony, without as much as a cue from the preacher. Eh?
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Fleetmaster
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Post by Fleetmaster on Nov 3, 2004 3:09:51 GMT -5
Sounds good to me. I'm not so sure about the Imperial Eagle being the main relic of the church though. Since christian churches usually have a holy cross, it may be appropriate for Imperial churches to have the Golden Throne, or some stylish variant of this. Thats quite possible, and the book Firewarrior (Prepares for angry response) supports this. Has anyone got any ideas as to what such a "stylised variant" would look like (not too similiar to the real golden throne, because then the Emperor would be portrayed as an emaciated dude on a golden toilet ) Oh, and because it's probably very hard to hear a preacher who's not speaking (or preaching) in your direction, it would probably be useful to have very standard ceremonies and songs. (Especially in large cathedrals) This way, the people in the distant rows know what is being said, and can keep up eventhough they hear nothing of what the preacher is saying. The attendants might go about their business through the entire ceremony, without as much as a cue from the preacher. Eh? True, and I imagine Imperial ceremonies being pretty fossilised in any case, (with a good part in High Gothic, which Joe Imperial doesn't even understand ). But this is the 41st millenium, and microphones, amplifiers and even larynx augmentations are probably quite possible on any world with a modern day equivalent or higher tech level. Even on feudal worlds these may exist, but be regarded as mystical by the superstitious populace.
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Fleetmaster
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Post by Fleetmaster on Nov 13, 2004 11:47:43 GMT -5
Ok. Heres chapter 2. Sorry for the long wait.
CHAPTER 2: The Imperial Service.
(What follows is a description of a Ministorum standard service. Services vary, to a greater or lesser degree on every world, but most follow this template)
The service begins with one of the Imperiums' millions of hymns. In most Churches, however, the choice will be drawn from a far smaller number which the congregation generally know off by heart. This first hymn is generally either an "On world" hymn, sung in the low Gothic dialect of the planet/region, or a "universal"hymn. These are generally sung in high Gothic, but their refrain/chorus is translated into low Gothic for the citizens to sing along to.
The method of reading hymns also varies. On poor or primitive worlds to hymns may simply be taught by word of mouth and remembered. On wealthier, more advanced worlds, citizens may be able to buy hymn-books, or each seat may be supplied with one. One the most advanced worlds, and in the large cathedrals of poorer worlds, huge vid screens to the front of the building may supply the text.
Next, a passage from one of the Imperium's mltiplicity of Holy books is delivered in high Gothic. Of course, the majority of Imperial citizens don't even understand this sonorous, archaic language, but the most important stoies are often commemorated throughout the Church, in the form of stained glass windows and wall frescoes and reliefs. These may be,formany citizens, their only sighting of a Space Marine or Titan, and are a source of stimulation during the long, incomprehensible reading.
Following the reading there is a period in which the Priest may deliver his own message to the congregation. These sermons are normally in Low Gothic and instruct the parishioner on matters of moral conduct (paying taxes on time, following orders, working hard for the Emperor's glory etc), warn them of pitfalls for the faithless and the need to be ever watchful for heresy (slothfulness, insolence and rebellion, with circumspect mentionings of various cults, etc) as well as chastising those in the congregation guilty of various minor crimes (not attending church, swearing, etc) by berating them before the full congregation.
Finally, another hymn is played, and then the congregation leave the Chapel/church.
Anyway, what to you think. Is it too short a service? Too accessible for the common man?
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Fleetmaster
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Post by Fleetmaster on Nov 15, 2004 5:47:26 GMT -5
Is anyone interested in Imperial churches anymore? I know that there was a big delay between chapters 1 and 2 but...is there anybody out theere?
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Post by CELS on Nov 22, 2004 7:55:01 GMT -5
Sorry, Fleetmaster! I've completely forgot about this thread. What I do is that I sometimes read all the new posts without having time to reply, and the next time I check the forum I forget about all the posts I read last time but didn't reply to. Make sense? Ah well Your second chapter is nice, Fleetmaster, though I wish there would be more details. For example, what is the role and behavior of the crowd? Do they sit in total silence except when they are supposed to sing, or do they join the priest in prayer, occassionally rising to their feet like in christian services? Do they perform any ritual movements, such as the aquila or even more advanced movements? Does the chastising take place in total silence, or to the sound of the cheering crowd? Is there any consumption of food or drink? What instruments are typically played? Etc. Details, details
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Post by Fleetmaster on Dec 8, 2004 15:14:26 GMT -5
I'm back, sorry about the long gap (damn computer exploded ) As to details... well, I'm forced to make the dreaded statement "It depends from world to world" although I see the crowd as being fairly quiet and well behaved most of the time, With ritual movements (generally the aquila) at the ends of prayers etc. Musical instruments, generally similiar to the organ.
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Fleetmaster
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Ultras just got interesting!
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Post by Fleetmaster on Dec 11, 2004 11:05:10 GMT -5
I think everyone has forgotten about this thread again...
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 11, 2004 11:46:37 GMT -5
One thing that I would personally like to see is a tad more detail. The adeptus ministorum has always struck me as "Catholicism gone wild", and this more a reference to the ceremonies rather than anything else (well, and the fact that the 'cathedral' is being used as inspiration). Of course that doesn't preclude the fact that the ceremonies might actually have a wider impact (i.e. 'the occult').
Do you have access to any books describing Catholic - or indeed other appropriate religions - and the ceremonies that they impart?
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Post by Minister on Jan 7, 2005 21:42:36 GMT -5
The main problem is the sheer adaptability of the Imperial cult. It's like defining a christian service today, there's so many variations it's a bit of a waste of time trying to cover them all. What might be better is a few examples (worked out as RPG settings as well, perhaps?) from the diferent worlds. I would do an example, but sleep beckons me.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 7, 2005 22:29:52 GMT -5
Yes, while acculturation is going to be incredibly common there is something - arguably! - as the 'core' doctrine and interpretation of the Imperial Cult... And the description seems more just background rather than something that is definitively RPG. E.g. it would make a reasonable backdrop, and perhaps even something that would be incorporated into an adventure or campaign, but even then...
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